iPad Pro M1 iPad Pro...why?

[playtech1]

I think the sole reason M1 is in the iPad Pro is because it's cheaper for Apple to manufacture one type of processor to be used across as many product lines as it can stuff it into, rather than tailoring the CPU to the specific task.

I don't believe it represents any kind of philosophical merging of iOS / MacOS - it's simply a decision made on a spreadsheet to maximise profits.

The big 'news' from M1 in iPad Pro is that going forward it looks like iPad Pros will use the low cost / low power Mac CPU, rather than a beefed up iPhone CPU. I bet the lower cost iPads will continue to use the iPhone CPU, with no extra horsepower.

So the benefit for Apple is that it no longer has to design and produce a specific iPad CPU at all!

So iPads will never have a CPU specifically designed for iPad use alone, but past experience shows this is probably fine - iPhone CPUs are powerful enough and M1 shows that Mac CPUs can be sufficiently power efficient.

Reading this strategy across to other Apple products, since Apple is not tailoring CPUs to each product line, I think we can expect 'M2' to be used in all of the other Macs due to move from Intel - i.e. high-end Mac Mini, high-end iMac, high-end MacBook Pro 13/14 and MacBook Pro 16, with the only real differences being form factor and cooling. Mac Pro is the only one where it's not clear that would work.

And IMHO M1 is all around great, but iOS is only great sometimes. iOS Multitasking is terrible - both unintuitive and poorly supported. Getting that sorted seems fundamental to moving iOS beyond casual use for most. File management is bad too.

Then we have the limits of the App Store as to what kind of apps can be published (e.g. web browsers all having to share the same Safari underpinnings ) or which are economic to publish with Apple's cut. I just don't think the iOS ecosystem is geared to Pros and Pros are too small a slice of the market for Apple to really care about to fix it.

 

[throAU]

I think the sole reason M1 is in the iPad Pro is because it's cheaper for Apple to manufacture one type of processor to be used across as many product lines as it can stuff it into, rather than tailoring the CPU to the specific task.

I don't believe it represents any kind of philosophical merging of iOS / MacOS - it's simply a decision made on a spreadsheet to maximise profits.

I honestly think its both.

Economy of scale (same processor in many products) is a no brainer and totally the way apple operate.

The second point: the iPad Pro is crying out for the ability to run more serious apps. The Mac has more serious apps and runs the same hardware. Anyone paying attention to the API changes via WWDC/Swift updates for the past 5-10 years can see that both macOS and iOS are each getting capabilities ported from the other, and the changes with SwiftUI make doing different UI layouts for different devices within the same application fairly trivial.

The big thing the Mac had before was an open non-app store ecosystem. What you may end up with is an iPad that is locked to the iOS/Mac App stores for software as that the only major platform differentiator any more imho.

 

[ofarlig]

I think the sole reason M1 is in the iPad Pro is because it's cheaper for Apple to manufacture one type of processor to be used across as many product lines as it can stuff it into, rather than tailoring the CPU to the specific task.

I don't believe it represents any kind of philosophical merging of iOS / MacOS - it's simply a decision made on a spreadsheet to maximise profits.

The big 'news' from M1 in iPad Pro is that going forward it looks like iPad Pros will use the low cost / low power Mac CPU, rather than a beefed up iPhone CPU. I bet the lower cost iPads will continue to use the iPhone CPU, with no extra horsepower.

So the benefit for Apple is that it no longer has to design and produce a specific iPad CPU at all!

So iPads will never have a CPU specifically designed for iPad use alone, but past experience shows this is probably fine - iPhone CPUs are powerful enough and M1 shows that Mac CPUs can be sufficiently power efficient.

Reading this strategy across to other Apple products, since Apple is not tailoring CPUs to each product line, I think we can expect 'M2' to be used in all of the other Macs due to move from Intel - i.e. high-end Mac Mini, high-end iMac, high-end MacBook Pro 13/14 and MacBook Pro 16, with the only real differences being form factor and cooling. Mac Pro is the only one where it's not clear that would work.

And IMHO M1 is all around great, but iOS is only great sometimes. iOS Multitasking is terrible - both unintuitive and poorly supported. Getting that sorted seems fundamental to moving iOS beyond casual use for most. File management is bad too.

Then we have the limits of the App Store as to what kind of apps can be published (e.g. web browsers all having to share the same Safari underpinnings ) or which are economic to publish with Apple's cut. I just don't think the iOS ecosystem is geared to Pros and Pros are too small a slice of the market for Apple to really care about to fix it.

The questions becomes if it was purely for economies of scale, why did they choose the 8-core GPU version? Why did they put 16 GB of RAM in the larger storage options? They could have charged exactly the same but used the 7-core GPU and 8 GB RAM versions and not presented which one they put in it.

I think economies of scale is a factor but I think they also plan to add more to the iPad Pro’s which using the same SoC as the Macs will help with.

 

[MacModMachine]

Well I have to walk it back after seeing 8GB/16GB RAM options in these new M1 iPad's. That means Apple must have something big in store for iPadOS at WWDC.

don't get your hopes up.

this is simply cheaper for apple , they will focus on making a single chip to power many devices instead of constantly engineering new chips. I doubt there will be a A15 , I think the iPhone will have a M1S or something , where they just reduce the core counts to reduce heat.

focus on a single chip and make it as best as possible. instead of many that go into different devices.

I doubt there is anything amazing happening with iPad os , pro apps and other enhancements....but certainly no desktop like os.

 

[ericwn]

Well I have to walk it back after seeing 8GB/16GB RAM options in these new M1 iPad's. That means Apple must have something big in store for iPadOS at WWDC.

Not necessarily. They had a nice affordable and already developed system on a chip lying around, that’s for sure. Everything else we can wait for - like we’re used to ever since the Pro models came out.

 

[Digitalguy]

don't get your hopes up.

this is simply cheaper for apple , they will focus on making a single chip to power many devices instead of constantly engineering new chips. I doubt there will be a A15 , I think the iPhone will have a M1S or something , where they just reduce the core counts to reduce heat.

focus on a single chip and make it as best as possible. instead of many that go into different devices.

I doubt there is anything amazing happening with iPad os , pro apps and other enhancements....but certainly no desktop like os.

I think we can agree to disagree on this... We'll discover soon enough

 

[Digitalguy]

offt, *shivers*. After losing stuff from iCloud for no apparent reason (and Apple support being useless), i have stayed well clear. For stuff that isn’t important. however, it is great for syncing across devices.

not only that but if high speed internet was reliable everywhere, the old idea of thin clients would be enough. And any iPad with a decently sized screen could be one. Just use Jumpdesktop to remote into a desktop and you are fine, you don't need a laptop. And while I do this myself, if I know I have paid work to do when away from home, I never rely on the fact that I'll have high speed internet all the time and want to be able to work locally on stuff

 

[throAU]

not only that but if high speed internet was reliable everywhere, the old idea of thin clients would be enough. And any iPad with a decently sized screen could be one. Just use Jumpdesktop to remote into a desktop and you are fine, you don't need a laptop. And while I do this myself, if I know I have paid work to do when away from home, I never rely on the fact that I'll have high speed internet all the time and want to be able to work locally on stuff

It's coming.

However, it will be via something like starlink for full coverage - which will definitely have worse latency than "processing on device".

The cloud for processing is great and has huge potential for big data sets, but for low latency stuff (think, augmented reality or virtual reality) you need sub 15 millisecond (or better, sub 10 ms) response time, and you're only getting that via local device processing. Otherwise you get VR sickness, etc.

If you're thinking dumb terminal type apps or even Remote Desktop or web apps for the cloud... guess again. That's v1.0. We're so close to a paradigm shift towards proper usable as a desktop replacement augmented reality, and high throughput, low power SOCs like the M1 are going to be one of the last pieces of the puzzle to get us there.

Think iPad Pro (or later, iPhone 16 or whatever) wirelessly tethered to some mostly-regular-looking glasses.

Think CyberPunk without the implants (yet). I don't think people realise just how damn close this stuff is now. The whole laptop/desktop thing is going to be replaced for many people with augmented reality - I'd guess inside 5-10 years.

Rather than people doing real work and having someone else do data entry for it (or going back to a desk or tablet or whatever to look up instructions and then doing it) we'll be having AR devices assist with that on the job.

The sheer worker productivity boost from this is going to be so much that it simply won't matter to a lot of businesses if the setup costs 5-10k if it works properly and is comfortable enough to be worn most of the day.

I mean right now my company is using holo-lens for some of this stuff for remote support instead of flying people around. The 10k cost for a pair of units is paid for itself if it saves a couple of flights in contractor travel time alone, never mind if it fixes downed machinery in hours and not days.

 

[ofarlig]

not only that but if high speed internet was reliable everywhere, the old idea of thin clients would be enough. And any iPad with a decently sized screen could be one. Just use Jumpdesktop to remote into a desktop and you are fine, you don't need a laptop. And while I do this myself, if I know I have paid work to do when away from home, I never rely on the fact that I'll have high speed internet all the time and want to be able to work locally on stuff

Isn’t high speed internet reliable everywhere though? Maybe I am spoiled by living in Sweden but I got 50+ Mbit even with LTE while in small cabins in the middle of nowhere years ago. These days it seems almost impossible to find spots where I go below 100 Mbit... And that is just cellular, if we are talking houses in communities it seems most of them can access optical fiber these days, even the ski houses have that now.

 

[throAU]

Isn’t high speed internet reliable everywhere though? Maybe I am spoiled by living in Sweden but I got 50+ Mbit even with LTE while in small cabins in the middle of nowhere years ago. These days it seems almost impossible to find spots where I go below 100 Mbit... And that is just cellular, if we are talking houses in communities it seems most of them can access optical fiber these days, even the ski houses have that now.

Nope not yet.

Metro area in major cities? Sure.

Try outback Australia or much of the African continent. Fast 5G? How about "no signal"?

And its those remote places with long trips to get there that are going to see a huge benefit from better internet via Tele-remote work.

 

[alecgold]

Did you know that ipadOS is upgradable?

Does Apple know?

My iPad 11” 2018 can do the same as the 2020 and the 2021 except those score a little better in benchmark tests.
but benchmark tests aren’t my metier. And although Apple has improved iPadOS its going at a glacial slow pace.

e.g. why can it only duplicate external screens and then only a very few select types.
Why is more storage so extremely expensive? 1Tb in my 2018 is eye watering.
Why can’t I add more apps on the front screen?
There certainly is a file system, but it’s not easy/quick to navigate trough if you want to sort, order and store 25 documents.
why can’t I open specific documents with specific apps? Like opening pdfs with pdf expert, but word always with word.

 

[Digitalguy]

Isn’t high speed internet reliable everywhere though? Maybe I am spoiled by living in Sweden but I got 50+ Mbit even with LTE while in small cabins in the middle of nowhere years ago. These days it seems almost impossible to find spots where I go below 100 Mbit... And that is just cellular, if we are talking houses in communities it seems most of them can access optical fiber these days, even the ski houses have that now.

I may considered myself spoiled too since I live in the center of a Swiss city (where we also have 10Gb fiber etc.), but when I travel abroad or even to the countryside here in Switzerland often I can't rely on high speed internet unfortunately... so if I know or is very likely that I need to work I have to bring a laptop with me

 

[sparksd]

Isn’t high speed internet reliable everywhere though? Maybe I am spoiled by living in Sweden but I got 50+ Mbit even with LTE while in small cabins in the middle of nowhere years ago. These days it seems almost impossible to find spots where I go below 100 Mbit... And that is just cellular, if we are talking houses in communities it seems most of them can access optical fiber these days, even the ski houses have that now.

No, not at all. Haven't travelled since the pandemic but in my extensive travels through rural continental US and especially Alaska, I came to never rely on Internet access - why I don't use cloud services.

 

[Digitalguy]

No, not at all. Haven't travelled since the pandemic but in my extensive travels through rural continental US and especially Alaska, I came to never rely on Internet access - why I don't use cloud services.

In my case I do rely on cloud, but with background syncing, that is it syncs in the background any change whenever there is a connection, but other than that my cloud files are all local, which the iPad can't do

 

[rui no onna]

In my case I do rely on cloud, but with background syncing, that is it syncs in the background any change whenever there is a connection, but other than that my cloud files are all local, which the iPad can't do

Same. I work on files stored directly on my Dropbox folder but I have the entire account fully synced to my laptop and desktop.

 

[Digitalguy]

Same. I work on files stored directly on my Dropbox folder but I have the entire account fully synced to my laptop and desktop.

Exactly my situation, I have several laptops and desktops and my dropbox is fully sync everywhere.
Funny enough I also have onedrive, which is provided by my employer for free, so technically it's the professional one, but I only use the 5TB for personal use, not for work (since it's much slower to sync), above all my multi-terabytes movie collection, which is only synced to my desktop

 

[rui no onna]

Exactly my situation, I have several laptops and desktops and my dropbox is fully sync everywhere.
Funny enough I also have onedrive, which is provided by my employer for free, so technically it's the professional one, but I only use the 5TB for personal use, not for work (since it's much slower to sync), above all my multi-terabytes movie collection, which is only synced to my desktop

The 20TB movie collection is on a NAS and backed up to a couple of relatively cheap 12TB USB3 external drives. Well, right now, the NAS needs to be replaced so the RPi 4 with openmediavault and the USB drives is doing the serving.

I've got a 200 Mbps down/10 Mbps up connection so cloud's just not practical for that.

 

[ofarlig]

No, not at all. Haven't travelled since the pandemic but in my extensive travels through rural continental US and especially Alaska, I came to never rely on Internet access - why I don't use cloud services.

Yeah that the US is quite behind on network infrastructure I guess I am aware of from my american friends. But I didn't think it was bad enough not to be able to rely on having decent speeds.

I may considered myself spoiled too since I live in the center of a Swiss city (where we also have 10Gb fiber etc.), but when I travel abroad or even to the countryside here in Switzerland often I can't rely on high speed internet unfortunately... so if I know or is very likely that I need to work I have to bring a laptop with me

That seems weird for a country with such high population density to be honest, but I guess every country is different in what they put as a priority. I usually load things from my NAS at home quite often over cellular, like my movie collection while at a ski cabin or something like that.

 

[subjonas]

Think CyberPunk without the implants (yet). I don't think people realise just how damn close this stuff is now. The whole laptop/desktop thing is going to be replaced for many people with augmented reality - I'd guess inside 5-10 years.

I agree AR will likely be the next big game changer. Glasses, with some sort of gesture UI, may completely replace phones and tablets, but I’m thinking for the time being it will require at least a small pocketable phone-like base device. There may be some interaction with the phone, but a lot of the interaction will likely just be in the air or something (not using the phone).
For work though, an AR gesture UI may run into the same ergonomic issues as touch UI, where it becomes inefficient after an extended period of use. So work may require a different UI and may even continue using keyboard and trackpad/mouse. AR could replace the monitor however, so for mobile work, one may just carry around a keyboard+trackpad base device, which would also offer more processing power and battery life for long periods of heavy work. Or instead of trackpad/mouse, it may use a pointing pen so that you can rest your elbow on a surface and just point the pen around. Either with trackpad or pen, AR could still give the UI 3 dimensional aspects. Pen may not be good for people with shaky hands though.
So I think even with AR changing the game, there may still be a divide between mobile consumption/everyday tasks and mobile work, primarily due to different UI needs, and secondarily for different power needs for some types of work. In other words, Apple will probably still sell two devices with different OSes.

There are still a lot of questions about AR though. For me the big ones are what will the UI and battery life/bulkiness look like?

 

[sparksd]

Yeah that the US is quite behind on network infrastructure I guess I am aware of from my american friends. But I didn't think it was bad enough not to be able to rely on having decent speeds.


That seems weird for a country with such high population density to be honest, but I guess every country is different in what they put as a priority. I usually load things from my NAS at home quite often over cellular, like my movie collection while at a ski cabin or something like that.

For the US, it's really pathetic to be honest and the shortcomings became all the more obvious and painful during the pandemic.

 

[rui no onna]

That seems weird for a country with such high population density to be honest, but I guess every country is different in what they put as a priority. I usually load things from my NAS at home quite often over cellular, like my movie collection while at a ski cabin or something like that.

I expect plenty of mountain regions in the US have poor or no internet connectivity.

I live in a major urban area but my upload speed is limited to 10 Mbps (1.25 MB/s) so I imagine it's quite painful to download movies from my NAS remotely. What I do is carry a portable router, laptop running Plex and have transcoded 5-10GB copies of my Blu-ray rips on a 2.5" portable HDD.

 

[meDANOcine]

I expect plenty of mountain regions in the US have poor or no internet connectivity.

I live in a major urban area but my upload speed is limited to 10 Mbps (1.25 MB/s) so I imagine it's quite painful to download movies from my NAS remotely. What I do is carry a portable router, laptop running Plex and have transcoded 5-10GB copies of my Blu-ray rips on a 2.5" portable HDD.

I have family members that live ~ 5 minutes from a Level I trauma center. Their only wireline internet option is 3 Mbps DSL. US network infrastructure is horrendous.

That being said, I live across town and have 1Gbps connectivity available from two different providers. So for me, cloud based services are a way of life. I work remotely using device-agnostic software that runs off a private enterprise cloud. For those of us who are connected, we are on the cusp of a huge revolution in the way we live and work. I just hope the rest of the world doesn't get left in the Stone Age.

 

[playtech1]

The questions becomes if it was purely for economies of scale, why did they choose the 8-core GPU version? Why did they put 16 GB of RAM in the larger storage options? They could have charged exactly the same but used the 7-core GPU and 8 GB RAM versions and not presented which one they put in it.

I think economies of scale is a factor but I think they also plan to add more to the iPad Pro’s which using the same SoC as the Macs will help with.

I think the 8GB / 16GB difference exists because it's a way to upsell the more expensive models to people who might not need the storage, but who think they need the RAM.

The 7-Core are probably just binned faulty 8-Cores - so might not be enough of them to make it worth complicating the lineup.

Don't get me wrong - I'm hoping that Apple has plans that make these decisions part of a grand strategy to transform the iPad's capabilities, but all I'm seeing right now is profit driven decision-making. It's the lack of any kind of Apple produced killer software app or iOS feature to take advantage of the power now on offer that makes me feel pretty sure of this. Maybe WWDC will make it all clear, but it feels like the Mac transition is where Apple's head is right now.

 

[Digitalguy]

Yeah that the US is quite behind on network infrastructure I guess I am aware of from my american friends. But I didn't think it was bad enough not to be able to rely on having decent speeds.


That seems weird for a country with such high population density to be honest, but I guess every country is different in what they put as a priority. I usually load things from my NAS at home quite often over cellular, like my movie collection while at a ski cabin or something like that.

Switzerland is one of the most advanced countries when it comes to wired Internet, but it stops at urban areas... I have 10 Gb/s fiber (upload and download) at home (I don't think it get any faster than that anywhere else) and the best part is that I only pay $40 per month for it... But move just 10-15 km away from the city center where I live and you get like 4Mb down / 1Mb up... So it's densely populated in urban areas, outside them it's mainly cows... and they are not profitable for telecom countries... ?

 

[Digitalguy]

I think the 8GB / 16GB difference exists because it's a way to upsell the more expensive models to people who might not need the storage, but who think they need the RAM.

The 7-Core are probably just binned faulty 8-Cores - so might not be enough of them to make it worth complicating the lineup.

Don't get me wrong - I'm hoping that Apple has plans that make these decisions part of a grand strategy to transform the iPad's capabilities, but all I'm seeing right now is profit driven decision-making. It's the lack of any kind of Apple produced killer software app or iOS feature to take advantage of the power now on offer that makes me feel pretty sure of this. Maybe WWDC will make it all clear, but it feels like the Mac transition is where Apple's head is right now.

I don't expect anything more than profit driven decisions. But I am still hopeful that they manage to find a profitable way to make the iPad pro more desktop like, even if it means separating it from the rest of the iPad line....