That’s fair. Samsung and Android as a whole have been supporting AMOLED longer than Apple and really *really* wish Apple would push a real ‘black’ mode not just dark gray. It irritates me because it’s needlessly using battery.
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iPad Pro M1 iPad Pro XDR display versus OLED
- Thread starter FasterQuieter
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What do you mean? There are true blacks in that image.
I see this screenshot on my LCD laptop display but I still see as true black only the bar between the sections. In each section with a list of apps, I see the color lighter than the other black - it is more like gray to black shade. I assume that on OLED the difference is even more noticeable.
I also confirm that on my iPad Pro Macrumors in dark mode is actually gray and not true black.
There is no such thing as ‘true blacks’, plural. There is only ‘true black’ and that’s #000000. If it’s not #000000 it’s not black. That’s how OLED panels interpret wether pixels are on or off. If it’s not #000000 the pixel is ‘on’, regardless of how dark it is.
I want to know will the brightness make much difference in sunlight. I'm sick of how washed out my screens are on my porch if the sun is out.
I'd imagine it won't make a difference because the 1000nits full screen brightness and 1600nits peak brightness is in reference to HDR content only. Standard Dynamic Range should still be what everyone is expecting as far as average picture levels. What doesn't get factored in is the possibility that they will the max brightness of SDR as well for that very purpose. Will remain to be seen once we start getting these in people's hands.
Modern displays hardly burn in anymore. They had many clever features. Please check input from e.g. Rtings about the latest OLED TVs.
Of course, it all depends on the quality of the screen AND the tech they are using.
If you have constantly bright logos , menus etc you will have burin in for sure.
I had 2 oled TV with burin in...
I had 2 oled TV with burin in...
But who is having the same logo in his screen 24/7 or even 12 hours a day? When you have a red logo 4-5 hours a day in your screen, even then you won't notice on a modem screen. Otherwise, modern games on an OLED would be killing. Sure, on older models this is still an issue, but also only after a very very long time of continuous usage.
TVs are not lamps. You don't run the entire TV at full blast, with a full screen of white.
And even if you had a predominantly white scene, a brighter TV can be of benefit particularly when in a room with a lot of ambient light. Plus, more brightness allows you to better differentiate different shades of white. eg. Snow covered mountains in the clouds.
To give you an idea of various brightness levels, if you're outside, a flower in partial shade might be 500 nits, whereas a metal object in the sun would be several thousand nits even on a partially cloudy day.
Typical recent OLED TVs max out around 700 nits, although they do go a bit higher these days in the higher end models.
LCDs can reach a couple of thousand nits for the higher end models, but the problem is their black levels often suffer. The point of mini-LED is to improve the black levels, while maintaining the brights, for overall good HDR.
In general though for content consumption, I prefer perfect blacks to ultra bright whites.
Well I see you said "most". However, you conveniently left out that Sony sells several professional OLEDs for broadcast video editing. In fact, for years, OLED was their top-of-the-line. Now it's not, but it's still up there of course. I believe their professional OLEDs go up to around $28000.
If you watch a properly mastered video on an OLED phone, black is black. The first time I watched a proper video on my OLED TV, at the transition from the intro to the actual show, I thought my TV had turned off. It was pitch black. It turns out the show had been mastered properly, so the transition was pitch black, which OLED faithfully showed.
Many apps don't have proper blacks, but I generally interact with my iPad with various applications with ambient light in the background so that's OK. The only time I might not is when I'm watching video, and that context I really like to have my perfect blacks. That's one of the main reasons I want to eventually upgrade from my 10.5" iPad Pro. However, I don't really need to spend twice as much on an iPad Pro if an iPad Air gets OLED in 2022. I am not going to be creating professional multimedia content on that thing.
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If you watch tv like I do or have your oled as pc monitor…. Burn in is unavoidable.
Especially in high brightness.
Do you have an older model? I'm seeing this on my newer LG via remote desktop, so it displays a computer pretty often, I airplay, play XBOX Series X and PS5 and absolutely zero burn in. Never even seen the slightest bit of image retention. Love this screen!
That says it all, IMO.
Sony's best professional reference monitor used to be OLED. Today, their best professional monitor is the dual-layer LCD BVM-HX310. The fact that Sony has OLED partnerships and OLED fabs, but still went LCD for their halo product really says something about LCD.
'I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.'
Apple's product display roadmap says they strongly believe LED is the future.
No one knows yet, but I will always argue for OLED over any kind of mini-LED technology. There's a reason LG's OLED TVs are considered to have the best picture you can buy, while Samsung's QLED (mini-LED) and other mini-LED TVs are not.
People love to point out that OLED can get burn-in, which is true, but Apple has also been using OLEDs in iPhones, MacBook Pro Touch Bars, and Apple Watches for 4-6 years and there have been no widespread issues with burn-in yet. I will give it to mini-LEDs that they can get brighter, but they just don't compare to OLED when it comes to contract and black levels.
People love to point out that OLED can get burn-in, which is true, but Apple has also been using OLEDs in iPhones, MacBook Pro Touch Bars, and Apple Watches for 4-6 years and there have been no widespread issues with burn-in yet. I will give it to mini-LEDs that they can get brighter, but they just don't compare to OLED when it comes to contract and black levels.
Their roadmap seems to include both OLED and mini-LED.
I guess that means they think BOTH are the future. And I happen to agree.
Koreans didn't invest in mini LED because they bet on OLED over a decade ago. Now the tide has turned and they're scrambling to get on board the mini LED train. You're comparing a tier-one LG OLED TV with a tier-two Samsung mini LED product.
Look at Apple's mini LED supply chain. It's Epistar and Sanan supplying the critical mini LED backlight chips and wafers.
Man... it's just factual.
To produce true black, the OLED panel just keep the pixel turned off. If it needs to be just a little bit grey, the darkest of the greys, then the pixel will need to be lit. That's why only a "true black" dark mode can be power saving.
And in the screenshot above, if you can't tell the difference between the black bars (actually those aren't bars, it's just the background of the settings, the menu options come above it) and the menu options, then you clearly have a problem with your screen or your vision.
I don't really understand your arguments here.
First, you were talking about Sony's best professional products, which cost 5-digit $, but we all know nothing like that will appear in iPad Pros or iPads because it would be stupid. Second, there are different tools for different purposes. You should be well aware that even the best mini-LED in the price range appropriate for future iPad Pros cannot match the black levels and precise pixel-level lighting control that even cheap consumer OLED offers. This may be less relevant for certain content producers, but it's very relevant for an even larger segment of the population.
I have no doubt the Apple iPad Pros with mini-LED will be good products. However, the products will be less appropriate for a large chunk of the population. It will serve to increase cost, for benefits that the typical consumer cannot maximize. OLED in this regard is a much more appropriate solution, and actually offers several advantages over mini-LED that mini-LED so far cannot solve even at higher costs.
So again, it seems to me from a technology point of view, the ideal situation going forward is to incorporate BOTH mini-LED and OLED in it products. We shall see, but judging by the various rumours, it would seem that is indeed the actual path Apple will be taking.
That is incorrect. Near black on OLED uses more power than black, but much less power than white.
I agree. The xdr iPad is bound to disappoint people who are expecting a big difference. That’s oled. I have oled on laptop and the screen is fantastic.
My position is, when it comes down to the technology, LCD wins. When money doesn't matter, size doesn't matter, the best of the best professional reference monitor is LCD (from Sony and other manufacturers). We often see these comparisons between brand X OLED vs. brand Y mini LED TVs. But those are limited by the fact those are consumer level products and without Apple's supply chain dominance.
Mini LED can only improve in terms of contrast and brightness (more zones, high luminescence). Let's pretend with 2,500 zones and 1M:1 contrast, mini LED doesn't match the black picture levels of OLED. What about at 5,000 or 7,000 zones? At some point in the near future, I predict mini LED will easily overtake OLED, at least in terms of what can be appreciated by consumers. Perhaps for machine level measurements, OLED will continue to win in terms of black level. For color reproduction, brightness, viewing angle, and things like image smearing, LCD will win. There are simply more checkboxes in the mini LED column.
We're seeing OLED and mini LED in future Apple products, but OLED seems to be for products that require flex (iPhone) or cost (iPad Air).
I think part of this interesting debate is still speculation when it comes to the XDR iPad vs OLED, which is the subject, since nobody here has seen the actual implementation of mini-led. Soon enough we'll have comparison videos with the Tab S7+. I know, not ideal through another screen but better than based on other devices...
Hopefully once they are in shop we can compare (I am really looking forward to see it in person and if the store lets me, compare it with my Tab S7+)
Hopefully once they are in shop we can compare (I am really looking forward to see it in person and if the store lets me, compare it with my Tab S7+)
That’s because he’s/she’s wrong. OLED still saves power with dark grey (not completely black) designs.
No, "AMOLED Black" Does NOT Save More Battery Than Dark Gray
Does using dark gray in a Dark Mode design save as much battery as pure "AMOLED black" in OLED displays? The results may surprise you.
www.xda-developers.com