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seadragon

macrumors 68000
Mar 10, 2009
1,872
3,151
OK, so your monitor is 4K, so native resolution is 3840x2160 and this is non HiDPI resolution. All others (except those marked “‘low resolution” are HiDPI ones. Which one are you using now?

I have it set to the default which is 3840x2160. Does that mean I should change the resolution to something else? Thanks again for your help. I'm having trouble understanding what resolution should be used.
 

AlphaCentauri

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2019
291
457
Norwich, United Kingdom
Default is native non HiDPI 3840x2160, I would try 3008x1692, which is highest HiDPI resolution for this monitor and see if you like font sharpness better at the expense of screen real estate (also depends on how far you are sitting from the screen).

For 4K screens, some people prefer HiDPI 2560x1440 or even 1920x1080, depending on distance from screen and the need for screen real estate. You have big monitor, so 3008x1692 makes more sense, IMHO.
 
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seadragon

macrumors 68000
Mar 10, 2009
1,872
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Default is native non HiDPI 3840x2160, I would try 3008x1692, which is highest HiDPI resolution for this monitor and see if you like font sharpness better at the expense of screen real estate (also depends on how far you are sitting from the screen).

Okay thanks. I just changed it to 3008x1692 using the scaling thumbnails and the font does seem quite crisp. I'm sitting about 3 feet from the monitor and I can comfortably read the text.

i-cP75Whx-M.png
 
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AlphaCentauri

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2019
291
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Norwich, United Kingdom
Okay thanks. I just changed it to 3008x1692 using the scaling thumbnails and the font does seem quite crisp. I'm sitting about 3 feet from the monitor and I can comfortably read the text.

i-cP75Whx-M.png

Cool. This means MacOS is rendering screen at 6016x3384 (and then down sampling to HiDPI 3008x1692), which I think is the maximum resolution for M1 (so that it can work with Apple’s Pro Display XDR).
 
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seadragon

macrumors 68000
Mar 10, 2009
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Cool. This means MacOS is rendering screen at 6016x3384 (and then down sampling to HiDPI 3008x1692), which I think is the maximum resolution for M1 (so that it can work with Apple’s Pro Display XDR).

Nice! I think I'll stick to this resolution and try it out. For some reason, I thought that native was the best quality but it sounds like its better to select one of the scaled resolutions.

I also noticed that when I initially had my Mac mini connected via HDMI, it had different scaling options than what I have now. I currently have the computer connected to the Caldigit TS3+ dock and then use DisplayPort from the dock to the DisplayPort on the monitor.
 

AlphaCentauri

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2019
291
457
Norwich, United Kingdom
OK, I’ll post it once again as people are not reading previous pages ;)

Simple recipe for crisp fonts with MacOS:

1. Purchase any 4K, 5K or 5K2K monitor
2. Set any HiDPI resolution you like (do not use native resolution, as it is not HiDPI)
3. Enjoy crisp fonts
 
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AlphaCentauri

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2019
291
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Norwich, United Kingdom
Nice! I think I'll stick to this resolution and try it out. For some reason, I thought that native was the best quality but it sounds like its better to select one of the scaled resolutions.

I also noticed that when I initially had my Mac mini connected via HDMI, it had different scaling options than what I have now. I currently have the computer connected to the Caldigit TS3+ dock and then use DisplayPort from the dock to the DisplayPort on the monitor.

HDMI has limitation as to max resolution supported, so HiDPI modes will be limited. Best to use TB3 or USB-C cable or TB3 dock (to DisplayPort) like you do. Nice home studio, BTW.
 
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BATman.Berlin

macrumors regular
Jun 13, 2015
239
183
California
Yeah, that was my impression too but how can you explain how another person just mention above that getting different adapter resulted "fonts are sharp and no distortion at all."? To me that sounds like that fixed the font issue completely.
See the full quote below.

Well, first I was using a USBC to HDMI connector. I actually had several and already got different resolutions/refresh rates offered, max 60Hz, one did HDR, the other not. That tells me there is different electronics used and different modes supported.
Next, I tried a older DELL USBC dock with HDMI and mini DP. Using mini DP the refresh rates offered were up to 120Hz, while the HDMI was limited to 60Hz. Different electronics again? I suppose there is.

Now using the OWC TB3 with DP I have full support up to 164Hz, HDR support and a crisp and clear picture with sharp fonts and nice colors. So yes, I believe the h/w to connect makes a difference. Specifically TB3 - DP routing instead of USB - HDMI.
 

AlphaCentauri

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2019
291
457
Norwich, United Kingdom
Well, first I was using a USBC to HDMI connector. I actually had several and already got different resolutions/refresh rates offered, max 60Hz, one did HDR, the other not. That tells me there is different electronics used and different modes supported.
Next, I tried a older DELL USBC dock with HDMI and mini DP. Using mini DP the refresh rates offered were up to 120Hz, while the HDMI was limited to 60Hz. Different electronics again? I suppose there is.

Now using the OWC TB3 with DP I have full support up to 164Hz, HDR support and a crisp and clear picture with sharp fonts and nice colors. So yes, I believe the h/w to connect makes a difference. Specifically TB3 - DP routing instead of USB - HDMI.

OK, so what is your monitor model and what resolution have you set in display preferences? I agree with everything you’ve written except for font rendering improvement. The way MacOS renders fonts (anti-aliasing) is incompatible with non-HiDPI resolutions. Some people find it acceptable, most don’t.
 

teo3vs

macrumors newbie
Mar 22, 2018
2
0
The first beta of macOS 12 has resolved the YPbPr output issue on my old Dell P2715Q. First time I've got RGB out of my M1 Mac Mini.

Interestingly when I installed it I made a note to check the video output and confirmed it was still YPbPr. Today I rebooted and after a lengthier-than-normal reboot and blank screen, it came back in RGB.

Nice to hear. I've updated to 11.4 but still no improvements with a DELL S2721QS. I'm a video editor so I NEED to trust what I see on the monitor.
 

0906742

Cancelled
Apr 11, 2018
2,313
613
Default is native non HiDPI 3840x2160
So even large 4K monitors cannot be used in native resolution if you want to avoid bad looking fonts so that 3840x2160 monitor looks just as bad as 2560x1440 at native resolution...? That is good to know since I was considering whether to get so large 4K panel that I could avoid fractional scaling (since 1920x1080 (2x) is much too small desktop real estate for me).
 
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0906742

Cancelled
Apr 11, 2018
2,313
613
Now using the OWC TB3 with DP I have full support up to 164Hz, HDR support and a crisp and clear picture with sharp fonts and nice colors. So yes, I believe the h/w to connect makes a difference. Specifically TB3 - DP routing instead of USB - HDMI.
Again about sharp fonts I would love to hear against what you compared this?
If I understood correctly you have some non HiDPI monitor, assuming it is either 2560x1440 or similar running at full native resolution?
Do you have any Windows machine and can you really say that fonts (even smaller ones and colored text boxes) look as good? Or does it even compare to Retina display? I mean by what you say, it sound likes fonts really look good and not how others (me included) say 2K monitor fonts look like in Big Sur?
 
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Donza

macrumors regular
Nov 14, 2006
201
97
Finland
I've been using the python script to fix RGB output but with latest beta of 11.5 it doesn't seem to work anymore. Hoping Apple has permanently sorted this with macOS 12.
 

AlphaCentauri

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2019
291
457
Norwich, United Kingdom
So even large 4K monitors cannot be used in native resolution if you want to avoid bad looking fonts so that 3840x2160 monitor looks just as bad as 2560x1440 at native resolution...? That is good to know since I was considering whether to get so large 4K panel that I could avoid fractional scaling (since 1920x1080 (2x) is much too small desktop real estate for me).

Yes, but don’t worry about fractional scaling with M1. This is really non issue. It was a big performance loss with Intel IGPs but not with M1.
 
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0906742

Cancelled
Apr 11, 2018
2,313
613
Yes, but don’t worry about fractional scaling with M1. This is really non issue. It was a big performance loss with Intel IGPs but not with M1.
I'm not worried about performance speed wise but quality wise. There will be scaling errors in graphics. It is very evident in simple test like just Lagom LCD gamma test.
 
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AlphaCentauri

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2019
291
457
Norwich, United Kingdom
I'm not worried about performance speed wise but quality wise. There will be scaling errors in graphics. It is very evident in simple test like just Lagom LCD gamma test.

Understandable. You would need to go with 5K or 6K (once someone will make one besides Apple), especially with larger monitor. Apple doesn’t make it easy for us, that’s for sure :rolleyes:
 
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Spacemunky

macrumors newbie
Jun 17, 2021
4
1
I've just got an M1 MacBook Pro and have connected to my LG 27UD88-W and the image is all washed out and colours are off. My 2017 MacBook Pro connected with the same USB-C cable is perfect. I've been back and forth with Apple support over the last few days to no avail. What I have noticed in the settings is that the M1 locks the Black Level at Low where as the 2017 Locks it at high but it's greyed out so I can't change it. Any one have similar issue with this or other LG monitors and been able to fix it?
 
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11235813

macrumors regular
Apr 14, 2021
144
226
I finally stopped insisting on my trusty 28" 1080p monitor and bought a relatively cheap 32" 4K monitor (ViewSonic VX3211-4K). The image is night and day better. It's like going from 480p to 1080p. Everything, the fonts, the icons are sharp now, even though it's a much bigger monitor and I'm sitting very close.

I use a DisplayPort > USB-C cable and I get proper RGB every time.

So the answer to the blurriness problem is, just buy a 4K monitor. You don't even need an expensive one. Just make sure it's 4K and not 1440p or whatever.
 

Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,808
12,225
So the answer to the blurriness problem is, just buy a 4K monitor.
To be more precise, buy a monitor that has a high-enough pixel density so you can use the HiDPI modes. Those are the key. I had a 9.7" 2048×1536 monitor that had 264 ppi, and macOS looked lovely on it in HiDPI.
 
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