M1 Mac Users Report Excessive SSD Wear

[DevNull0]

??? A microwave is not a computer. A microwave cooks food and is controlled by a microcontroller, not a general-purpose CPU. The A14 SoC is based on the same cores as the M1, Firestorm and Icestorm.

The MCU in a microwave is a general purpose computer running a program that gives it a specific limited function. The processing capability of that MCU isn't what makes it a microwave, it's the program and form factor that does.

Same with the iPad, a general CPU set up with a limited function programmed into it.

Can I program that microwave MCU from an iPad? How do I run the compiler, code editor, and where do you connect the programmer and debugger? How do I install the drivers for that programmer? Can I connect a few extra monitors to the iPad? Now when I want to develop that MCU into an IoT device, can I set up a server stack on the iPad for my test environment?

A computer, even an M1 Mac, can do all of that and more. That's just one small area. If you look at all the things a computer can do that an iPad can't, the iPad's capability is vanishingly small. But that's not a problem and not a criticism of the iPad at all. The iPad a limited function appliance, much like a microwave, and it does a great job at what it's intended to do. Pretending it's a computer, though, is just foolish.

I wouldn't use my computer to warm up food, and there are things the iPad is great for.

 

[Ethosik]

More expensive PC often don't hold up as long either (because of some cheap parts or bad design). Shocking!

(Some smartass will surely reply saying he had a PC of model X which lasted very very long. Except he would be besides the point since no one said all PCs don't last long.)

Yep. I got a $2,000 Dell XPS back in 2009 and the PSU failed in 2011. It literally popped and everything.

 

[Ethosik]

smartmontools download

Edit: Unfortunately, the standard download is x86 only. You will have to build or use brew to get an Apple Silicon version.

SMARTReporter is available on the App Store and it does work on my M1 Mac mini. Yeah it costs some money but I definitely prefer to pay for something trustworthy than being cautious about some random software online.

Not saying there is 0% chance something on the App Store is malicious, just an added piece of mind here. And it has been around for YEARS too.

 

[sillypooh]

I've wondered about the use of Swap since considering buying a new Mac that has soldered SSD. I don't quite understand fully how RAM works, but I feel like I have a general understanding of it. That said, I can't understand how this scenario works out. I just restarted my computer (New M1 MBP) only opened Safari, this particular thread- went to the last page, logged in, and took this screenshot. How is it that 2 pages of this thread needs 500+ MB written into memory? I'm not saying there is an issue- but would love if anyone could clarify what is going on behind the scenes. I'm familiar with generally what a typical file size would be for misc filetypes, and I can't comprehend why these two pages would equal that much. What am I missing?

Thanks for any insight!

You're absolutely correct about the 500+MB, it does not make sense.

This isn't surprising for the modern web. Many of the elements used in design now employ trackers, widgets (the share to FB, Twitter, etc type widgets) and many other elements all add up to memory usage. Chrome is much worse, 500MB is .. sadly .. not a huge amount.

The web is full of bloat, sure, but it's not conceivable that loading this page would require 500MB to be downloaded and written to drive, even from multiple sources.

 

[mi7chy]

Most of what otherwise would be free memory is occupied by cached files (check your activity monitor).

This exposes another issue that few have noticed. File precaching of native apps give the appearance that SSD is fast when it's actually slow. My 256GB feels like eMMC since launching a non-native app has significant delay bouncing several times before actually opening. Would rather they use fast SSD so precious memory isn't wasted for file caching to mask slow storage performance.

 

[Ethosik]

Except I don't think anyone knows why the writes are so high so it might be difficult to manufacture a failure.

Not directing this at you, just using your message as a basis for mine.

Again, lets stop spreading FUD, stop saying "Apple is EVIL", stop with all this nonsense. If you experience the issue, post ALL apps you have on your computer. We can cross-reference others posts and find "Okay all these people have X app, and it appears it has a logging functionality" for example.

Let's get to the bottom of this instead of just bashing Apple, blaming Intel for "brining this up", blaming Linus Tech Tips or whoever. WHAT is the cause here. If you say you are experiencing the issue but actually not, its not helping. If you actually are, post your apps and we can compare.

I have my M1 Mac mini at almost 1TBW after 1.5 months of ownership. I do video editing, software development, lots of downloads and many more things on this computer.

 

[Toutou]

The web is full of bloat, sure, but it's not conceivable that loading this page would require 500MB to be downloaded and written to drive, even from multiple sources.

It's 500 MB of RAM, not written to the SSD. (Memory tab of Activity Monitor) Which is, sadly, almost the norm on today's web. Also, Macrumors is not a lightweight website.

 

[jdb8167]

SMARTReporter is available on the App Store and it does work on my M1 Mac mini. Yeah it costs some money but I definitely prefer to pay for something trustworthy than being cautious about some random software online.

Not saying there is 0% chance something on the App Store is malicious, just an added piece of mind here. And it has been around for YEARS too.

I hadn’t heard about that app. I’m curious if it is reporting the same as driveDX and smartmontools. I’ve looked at the smartmontools code and the fact that they document that they are guessing about the offsets for the TBW reads and writes doesn’t inspire confidence. And that is before you see that the M1 SSDs are not in their drive database.

 

[flopticalcube]

The MCU in a microwave is a general purpose computer running a program that gives it a specific limited function. The processing capability of that MCU isn't what makes it a microwave, it's the program and form factor that does.

Same with the iPad, a general CPU set up with a limited function programmed into it.

Can I program that microwave MCU from an iPad? How do I run the compiler, code editor, and where do you connect the programmer and debugger? How do I install the drivers for that programmer? Can I connect a few extra monitors to the iPad? Now when I want to develop that MCU into an IoT device, can I set up a server stack on the iPad for my test environment?

A computer, even an M1 Mac, can do all of that and more. That's just one small area. If you look at all the things a computer can do that an iPad can't, the iPad's capability is vanishingly small. But that's not a problem and not a criticism of the iPad at all. The iPad a limited function appliance, much like a microwave, and it does a great job at what it's intended to do. Pretending it's a computer, though, is just foolish.

I wouldn't use my computer to warm up food, and there are things the iPad is great for.

There is nothing in the particular workings or form factor of an iPad that stops it from being able to code for and program an MCU. Most Windows tablets can do that. The point is that the M1 is not revolutionary, Apple has been building ARMv8 SoCs for years. BTW, the same limitation that stops the iPad from connecting to more than 1 external monitor is in the M1. Many people have given up on traditional computers now that their cell phones can do everything for them. Shall we say that an M1 laptop is not a computer because I can't use it to pay for my groceries at the checkout in a supermarket? One could argue that an iPhone is actually more versatile for most people than a laptop. They are all still computers.

 

[Ethosik]

That's the EXACTLY reason why we need removable SSD and replaceable parts! Apple has shown its tiresomely and irritatingly repetitive committment to the environment, but this really does opposite, forcing us to buy new Macs when SSD or soldered-on parts fail.

I spent €200 on the new GPU card to replace the idiotic AMD Radeon 5750 GPU in my 10-year-old iMac 27" (Mid-2010) so I can install the Big Sur and run apps that use Metal engine. I see no need to buy new iMac when my current iMac runs beautifully to this day.

Only if you just chuck your old computer in a dumpster. If you give it to Apple, they will recycle it. Use some of the material - possibly even put it up as a refurbished item.

 

[Ethosik]

For the time being, it's a concern in the sense that the volume of SSD reads and writes don't match what we should normally expect based on previous generations of macs and macOS. And it's a significant order of magnitude.

How can we make that confirmation unless we have people post a list of their apps? It could very well be some software that is logging non stop. In that case, having said software with logging enabled like it is it would be expected behavior.

 

[DevNull0]

There is nothing in the particular workings or form factor of an iPad that stops it from being able to code for and program an MCU. Most Windows tablets can do that. The point is that the M1 is not revolutionary, Apple has been building ARMv8 SoCs for years. BTW, the same limitation that stops the iPad from connecting to more than 1 external monitor is in the M1. Many people have given on computers now that their cell phones can do everything for them. Shall we say that an M1 laptop is not a computer because I can't use it to pay for my groceries at the checkout in a supermarket? One could argue that an iPhone is actually more versatile for most people than a laptop. They are all still computers.

Nothing except that it can't physically connect to the programmer, it can't run driver software for the programmer, it can't run a compiler. Of course the CPU can do all of that, but the iPad as a product can't do that. It is a real CPU, but the iPad is not a computer, it's a product with a CPU in it.

Is a car a computer when it has as much computing power as an iPad?

Is paying for your groceries a normal function people associate with a computer? A computer is not a magic wand that does everything. Which computer can pay for groceries at the supermarket?

 

[Ethosik]

Oh man this thread is still kicking. You guys get some serious hype about a lot of speculation. How many of you have submitted a bug report to Apple over this?

I would say none. We still don't know if its a common app that the people that experience this all have, or if its something on Apple's side. Chances are its some app causing it otherwise we would all see it.

 

[cheezypuffs]

This isn't surprising for the modern web. Many of the elements used in design now employ trackers, widgets (the share to FB, Twitter, etc type widgets) and many other elements all add up to memory usage. Chrome is much worse, 500MB is .. sadly .. not a huge amount.

This is where I'm confused though. The two pages I visited on this site couldn't have possibly downloaded 500mb of data to my computer. If that's the case, browsing the internet would be painfully slow for anyone without a really fast connection- not to mention anyone with data caps would surely hit that pretty quick just from browsing the internet, not to mention gaming and streaming.

So I ran a little experiment.

I have a html file with some links and images (icons) on it. That's it. No scripts, no widgets or tracking codes. Literally 1 html file, a handful of very small images. The icons and html file on my hard drive are 7MB. Yet, when I load the page in Safari, it is using 60MB of RAM. Whether that is normal or not, I'm intrigued to know why it would need to allocate more space in RAM than the entire page and it's contents?

 

[Ethosik]

I am saying that the people freaking out and losing their mind are doing so over speculation that their devices are suddenly going to blow up or become useless in the next year, just read through this thread and its 80% of the posts.

Since these systems are not walled garden iOS devices the ability to run anything the user wants makes me more suspicious that people reporting hundreds of TB written might be running some weird applications that they don't fully understand. If everyone was seeing that figure it would be a very different story, but those users are few and so far I have seen no data on what they run on those systems. I am by no means saying Apple couldn't have screwed up, they have done it plenty of times. I've just seen this forum blow up over the dumbest rumors, it's happening again in this thread. People should just report the issue to Apple and wait for a reply, rather we have almost 20 pages of discussion on a couple of tweets.

I am still under 1TBW after 1.5 months of my m1 Mac mini ownership. And I do video editing, browsing, downloading, graphical work, and more on this system.

 

[dannys1]

ehh semantics but technically correct. i imagine for most a logic-board replacement just ends up being a new machine. the cost of a new logic-board (if you can easily find one depending on the age of the machine) plus installation (assuming you're out of warranty) is likely pushing the cost of something new.

either way, a dead ssd shouldn't require a new logic-board either. it's the only thing that should be changeable.

I'm on the fence about SSD being changeable to be honest because in my 15 years of using SSDs i've still had not one fail or "wear out" yet.
Of course a slot adds cost and another point of failure than a soldered on SSD doesn't - plus for Apple it means someone has to put it into the slot, not the case when it's soldered, so higher quality control and ironically less faliure (at least the short term)

I guess I just don't know how to address this issue for the sort of people who like to keep a laptop for 8 years, but then there aren't many non Apple laptops working after 8 years either, even if they do have replacement drives, you'll find the keyboards are broken or falling apart, the battery is long dead and it's largely been discarded into a corner of the house because it's running so slow.

 

[flopticalcube]

Nothing except that it can't physically connect to the programmer, it can't run driver software for the programmer, it can't run a compiler. Of course the CPU can do all of that, but the iPad as a product can't do that. It is a real CPU, but the iPad is not a computer, it's a product with a CPU in it.

Is a car a computer when it has as much computing power as an iPad?

Is paying for your groceries a normal function people associate with a computer? A computer is not a magic wand that does everything. Which computer can pay for groceries at the supermarket?

An iPad can connect to a programmer as long as the programmer has USB, the same limitation as any MB. The laptop can also simply be considered a product with a CPU in it.

Let us rewind to my original comment:
Apple has been building ARM SoCs for years. There really is nothing new here.

 

[sillypooh]

It's 500 MB of RAM, not written to the SSD. (Memory tab of Activity Monitor) Which is, sadly, almost the norm on today's web. Also, Macrumors is not a lightweight website.

Yes you're correct. He must have referred to the memory used by the page to RAM, which consists mostly of graphic buffer which definitely makes upwards to 300MB for a page. So as reported in Activity Monitor memory tab.

Doesn't help solve our problem on the disk tab side tho.

 

[DevNull0]

An iPad can connect to a programmer as long as the programmer has USB, the same limitation as any MB. The laptop can also simply be considered a product with a CPU in it.

A physical connection doesn't mean the device works. The iPad will not know how to talk to the programmer and even it did, it has no way to generate the binaries to program into the chip.

Let us rewind to my original comment:
Apple has been building ARM SoCs for years. There really is nothing new here.

And my original reply. If you think that an iPad or a phone with an Arm SoC, is the same as a computer with an Arm SoC, then go enjoy your iPad and let us enjoy our computers.

The iPhone and iPad are great devices.

 

[flopticalcube]

A physical connection doesn't mean the device works. The iPad will not know how to talk to the programmer and even it did, it has no way to generate the binaries to program into the chip.



And my original reply. If you think that an iPad or a phone with an Arm SoC, is the same as a computer with an Arm SoC, then go enjoy your iPad and let us enjoy our computers.

The iPhone and iPad are great devices.

Not being able to communicate is a limitation of the OS. I never made any allusions to an iPad with an SoC being the same as a laptop with one but they are near as dammit identical to my eyes. What is it exactly, hardware-wise, that makes a laptop a computer and an iPad not one? As far as I can see, all the limitations are in software.

 

[gank41]

SMARTReporter is available on the App Store and it does work on my M1 Mac mini. Yeah it costs some money but I definitely prefer to pay for something trustworthy than being cautious about some random software online.

Not saying there is 0% chance something on the App Store is malicious, just an added piece of mind here. And it has been around for YEARS too.

Looks like that app hasn’t been updated in 2 years. smartmontools was last updated on Dec 30, 2020 and lists Apple Silicon / Big Sur support.

 

[cheezypuffs]

Yes you're correct. He must have referred to the memory used by the page to RAM, which consists mostly of graphic buffer which definitely makes upwards to 300MB for a page. So as reported in Activity Monitor memory tab.

Doesn't help solve our problem on the disk tab side tho.

My only point, and forgive my ignorance I could be totally wrong, is that if sites are using a TON of RAM, and once that RAM is used up the Mac uses Swap, could this contribute to the issue?
I have 16GB on my M1 MBP and have found myself dipping into Swap very often in the few days I've been lightly using the machine. Once it writes to Swap, over on the disk tab you see the increase in writes.

I would think anyone with an 8GB model and uses the machine to multitask a lot, would be writing to Swap constantly.

This goes back to me questioning why Safari (and Chrome for that matter) need to use so much RAM? I just don't understand. Not saying they don't need to use that much, I'm just asking so I understand why they do.

 

[DSMinAtlanta]

So is this SSD excessive wear a Mac OS bug or hardware issue? I'm still in the return period on my MBA M1 8/16/512. I'm not sure if I should return it and get a good Windows laptop or to purchase AppleCare for my MBA. What is your recommendation?

I have two days left of my 14 day return period so I’m asking myself the same question. I have the same configuration MBA as you and I’m not one to replace laptops very often. I was using a 2012 MBA before this one. Guess I’ll wait to see if Apple responds by Friday and if not then it might be going back.

 

[averagenerd81]

This is where I'm confused though. The two pages I visited on this site couldn't have possibly downloaded 500mb of data to my computer. If that's the case, browsing the internet would be painfully slow for anyone without a really fast connection- not to mention anyone with data caps would surely hit that pretty quick just from browsing the internet, not to mention gaming and streaming.

So I ran a little experiment.

I have a html file with some links and images (icons) on it. That's it. No scripts, no widgets or tracking codes. Literally 1 html file, a handful of very small images. The icons and html file on my hard drive are 7MB. Yet, when I load the page in Safari, it is using 60MB of RAM. Whether that is normal or not, I'm intrigued to know why it would need to allocate more space in RAM than the entire page and it's contents?

It isn't simply allocating the page you're looking at. All of those scripts and trackers pull in content from other sources. This is a MAJOR issue with the way ads are served and why it is so crucial to block content like ad providers. The page you're looking at is a single element, it's all the extra trash it is pulling in that causes much of the bloat.

Pull up the source view of a page and look at all of the references to content from other providers, you're not simply loading whatever is visible on the page, you're loading code from a plethora of other services. It's far more than you would ever expect and it's why web browsing without content blockers is a terrible idea.

 

[Clarus T. Dogcow]

Funny you talked about people being 100% wrong..

This is not how rights, metaphorical or legal, actually work.

Actually, it is precisely how the law works. To wit :

http://jec.unm.edu/education/online-training/contract-law-tutorial/breach-of-contract

Quote : "A breach of contract is a failure, without legal excuse, to perform any promise that forms all or part of the contract. This includes failure to perform in a manner that meets the standards of the industry or the requirements of any express warranty or implied warranty, including the implied warranty of merchantability."

I would also once again point to https://apple.com/legal

to educate yourself as to he exact contract one executes with the purchase and use of an Apple product.

I add, also, a profound apology for misspelling 'breach'.

For there to be a "breech of contract" or even a breach of contract created as a result of someone saying "We’re entitled to a voice and customer services at this sort of price points" they would have to have agreed to a contract that prohibited them from saying such a thing, and such a contract would have to be legal to begin with in the jurisdiction they reside in.

You would be right, except I never said anything of the sort. If you read what I wrote and not what you expected to be there, you would clearly see my claim is one of assertion, not speech. The discussion was clearly one of extracting value to which one has no claim according to very specific terms set forth by Apple and accepted, in their entirety, by the one purchasing and using an Apple product.

The former seems unlikely to be true in any agreement a customer may have agreed to with Apple in order to purchase and use an M1 Mac, and the latter isn't necessarily legal either considering how consumer rights in most jurisdictions provide legal protections that override anything Apple can put in contracts (hell, they were successfully sued over not making consumer rights in EU member states clear enough).

If your assertion is one that judges can - and do - get wild hairs and completely ignore law because they can, I have no argument for or with you.

But hey, as someone who, unlike them, apparently reads contracts, I'm sure you can show us where the purchaser of an M1 Mac is engaging in a "breech of contract" if they have the utter audacity to be concerned about the possibility of an issue with that product, and assert that "we’re entitled to a voice and customer services at this sort of price points". Truly, I look forward to it.

You will be waiting until hell freezes over, because I did nothing of the sort. My reasoning was crystal clear - attempting to extract value after the completion of a valid contract is a breach of that contract. No more, no less.

If you can show how demanding Apple pay or do something after that contract is executed and you have agreed to all the terms of the contract is not a breach, I am all ears.

Once again, so you can't miss it this time, I am not claiming mere speech is a breach. I am talking about asserting a claim against Apple for value one did not bargain for in the contract.