Possible significant M4 advance would be TB5.
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M4+ Chip Generation - Speculation Megathread [MERGED]
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Do NOT expect Thunderbolt 5 on Mac's for another 5-7 year. Maybe longer. As of today there are no PCs that support TB5. As far as PC, there rumors of a handful launching in 2024, but not confirmed.
The only existence of TB5 are docking stations at CES in Jan
The only existence of TB5 are docking stations at CES in Jan
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I won't make any speculations on the M4, but I am sure it will be the fastest and best thing Apple has ever done, and this shall be shouted from the mountain tops for all to hear.
I would like to eventually see integration with VR/AR headsets. Let the computer do the processing with a super fast connection to a light weight, huge FOV headset.
I would like to eventually see integration with VR/AR headsets. Let the computer do the processing with a super fast connection to a light weight, huge FOV headset.
5-7 years??? Why in the world would it take so long?
In September 2023 Intel formally stated; “Computers and accessories based on Intel’s Thunderbolt 5 controller, code-named Barlow Ridge, are expected to be available starting in 2024.”
It will appear with the next generation of Intel processors in 2024—and inside premium Intel and Apple Silicon computers.
Thunderbolt 5 release date, speed, features, compatibility
Thunderbolt 5 is the next generation of Thunderbolt that doubles the speed and triples the bandwidth
www.techadvisor.com
This.
It would be a major incentive to upgrade your previous machine.
Biggest leap in ~8 years. If only they'd allow external gpu's as well.
I really don't get this excitement about TB5. I mean, how many people need this kind of external connectivity bandwidth?
It's like hi-speed USB-C on an iPhone. If you shoot video you need it.
You r.e.a.l.l.y need it.
People with creative high bandwidth needs kept Apple's Mac business going after Steve came back. Powerbooks were a mobile adjunct for the few and iMacs were just a sideline to iPods...
TB5 is the gateway to better monitor technology, and will allow external storage to keep pace with Apple's internal data transfer achievements - in more flexible, and maybe even in more cost-effective ways.
If you need it you need it.
You r.e.a.l.l.y need it.
People with creative high bandwidth needs kept Apple's Mac business going after Steve came back. Powerbooks were a mobile adjunct for the few and iMacs were just a sideline to iPods...
TB5 is the gateway to better monitor technology, and will allow external storage to keep pace with Apple's internal data transfer achievements - in more flexible, and maybe even in more cost-effective ways.
If you need it you need it.
Thank you! Just for my curiosity, is the TB4 really a bottleneck in these applications? What kind of workloads are you thinking about that need 5GB/s bandwidth? I suppose recording 4K video with wide color would be one, but wouldn’t you be doing this using specialized equipment anyway?
'Need', probably not many. However, it does offer power users greater flexibility.
MacBooks equipped with 1-2 thunderbolt ports can effortlessly support one or two 6K screens, 10gbe, and nvme drives with just one connection.
For pro users with 4+ thunderbolt ports, the possibilities expand to include 25/40/100gbe nics, nvme drives matching internal drive speeds, pcie enclosures with more lanes, and numerous (6K) screens.
If you use TB4 for its hub capabilities like video monitors, high speed Ethernet etc then that TB4 channel is restricted to PCIe 3 x 1 ~800MB/s data bandwidth within the hub device.
Plus all the daisy chained devices and storage share the 40Gb/s bandwidth.
It required a Mac Pro to have enough SCSI/SAS/SATA channels for media production.
Which we all had (big or small budget) from 2003-2012.
TB5 will help the Studio range to be more flexible in implementing multi-SSD workflows.
Plus all the daisy chained devices and storage share the 40Gb/s bandwidth.
It required a Mac Pro to have enough SCSI/SAS/SATA channels for media production.
Which we all had (big or small budget) from 2003-2012.
TB5 will help the Studio range to be more flexible in implementing multi-SSD workflows.
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The way I understand it is that the Apple 6K Pro Display XDR saturates the entire bandwidth of each TB3/TB4 port currently, more so that any other peripheral (see link). The restricted USB-C ports on the back are quite slow standards of USB-C (USB 2.0) as a result.
Here is a link to an article about it...
If you wanted to go beyond 6K to 8K or allow higher refresh rates, for features like Pro Motion, like on the current MacBook Pro's then this is where TB5 could come into play. Currently to get 8K you have to go through the HDMI ports. It would be cool to be able to daisy chain these (future) monitors with the added bandwidth of TB5.
File management would be 2x speed+, from 2800MB/s to 5600MB/s or even 8400MB/s if this TB5 Bandwidth Boost feature eventuates, which is always useful when copying multiple terabytes on a regular basis. There is always room for improvement.
I use the OWC Accelsior 8M2 PCIe raid drives in a Mac Pro and they are almost 10x the speed of TB3/TB4 (26,000MB/s), any increase in speed from the introduction of TB5 would be greatly appreciated.
If Apple is introducing OLED to MacBook Pros 2-3 years from now—rumors have been persistent—I would imagine its coming with Thunderbolt 5 and a design refresh (even if minor). Besides, Apple tends to be a leader in Thunderbolt adoption; PC manufacturers are many years behind Apple, focusing on USB 3 and HDMI instead.
We need computers in the market with TB5 so that monitor manufacturers are encouraged to bring out monitors with increased resolution and refresh rates.
Considering we didn’t get meaningful GPU performance improvements between M2 and M3 with regards raster performance, can we assume M4 will give us some bigger jumps in GPU?
Yes, I’m ignoring the ray tracing and mesh shading features. I know they have a big impact in certain cases but I’m talking general GPU duties for things like current games, photoshop, video etc.
I’ve got an M3 Max 40c 16” MBP being delivered next week to replace my M3 max 38c model. Will be intrigued to see how much more performant it feels in my day to day work.
Yes, I’m ignoring the ray tracing and mesh shading features. I know they have a big impact in certain cases but I’m talking general GPU duties for things like current games, photoshop, video etc.
I’ve got an M3 Max 40c 16” MBP being delivered next week to replace my M3 max 38c model. Will be intrigued to see how much more performant it feels in my day to day work.
If they replace the XDR with a 7k@120 Hz display, that will be possible, but challenging, to drive with TB4.
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Post production. Lots of projects that are more than the 8TB. Copying or backing up 10 TB at a time gets really old really quickly. With these OWC PCIe RAIDs it makes quick work of it.
My biggest question is when the M4 series will debut. It’s now March 2024 and Apple has updated its most important Macs with the M3 (and maybe the iPad Pro next week). Will it be later this year or 2025? Will they update the MacBook Pro first like they did with M3, or will the higher yielding TSMC N3E process let them update all MacBooks at once? I’m guessing it’s early 2025 for the M4s in the Pros, and summer 2025 for the MacBook Air (in time for back-to-school shopping).
If you want an external screen with high "retina" resolution (6k should be the norm at 32inch in 202X) at higher (i.e. more than 60Hz) refresh rates you need a lot of bandwidth. If you want to daisychain a couple of them you need 2x that. If you want to run peripheries off of their hubs, you need even more. Even without daisychaining, if you want a single docking station connection to drive multiple devices and 2 of those are 6k screens at 90 or 120Hz you need that pipe to be huge.
Sadly, few display makers seem interested in hidpi panels >200 dpi, instead going after gamers who will pay top dollar for increased refresh rates. I thought we were getting somewhere with the 34" 5k2k ultrawides (~160 dpi), this seems to have now standardised at 40" with the same pixel density as a 32" 4k display. The only modern retina displays I'm aware of are the Apple displays, LG & Samsung 27" 5Ks and the Dell 32" 6K. Apart from these, the highest dipi I've seen is ~160 ppi for the aforementioned 34" 5k2k ultrawides and 27" 4K. I'd love a 7k3k ultrawide, but it doesn't seem on the cards
