iPad Pro M4 iPad Pro pricing looks much worse in retrospect

[FrozenDarkness]

you know re-reading my message, i really meant for it to insult myself. i am the buyer of ipad pro with hopes and dreams of it replacing my mac. but as someone who works for a cloud based company who doesn't actually need too much, even the fact that google docs is trash on ipad pro makes things so hard. like ipad pros are really a bespoke machine, it may be worth it if it fits your particular use case.

but if apple tomorrow brought 120hz down to ipad air, like how many of us would still buy the ipad pro? I know I wouldn't. I am blessed enough to spend that much of a premium for a nice screen but I am honest with myself that I'm paying the apple tax.

 

[Melbourne Park]

Hints: MBA is 1.24 kg, iPad Pro is 584 grams… guess where the battery life is coming…
Comparing Apples to pears…

I don't recall previous non iPad Pro users having issues with the other iPads being too heavy? I wonder too, how many iPad Pro M4 users do not use a cover, because they add too much weight?

But anyway, I looked at various video reviews, and was surprised at the results.

Firstly least the 13" M4 gets 18% better battery life than the 11".

You've been (I think) debating that weight is the main issue - but in fact, battery life of the iPad M4 is much much better than it was ... and its likely due to the duel OLED display, plus also the M4 is the most efficient processor yet.

The iPad Pro M4 13" has 50% more endurance than the M2 Air.
The 11" Pro M4 is about 30% better than the Air.
The 13" iPad Pro M4 has 18% more endurance than its 11" little brother.

If Apple had added 50 grams - which is about the weight of a good protector - then the battery life of the 11" could have got to 16 hours by my calculations, and adding maybe 75 grams (guessing here) to the 13" they may cracked 20 hours.

This is also complicated by user desires to increase battery life, which means not fully charging the battery (over 85% charging diminishes battery life cycles quite a lot).

I have now changed my mind - I think the iPad Pro M4 has made a huge improvement in battery life than before, and best of all, its an easy battery to replace. But it would have been possible for Apple to achieve notebook endurance in an iPad Pro by increasing the iPad's Pro M4's weight by maybe 10%.

It makes me ponder the battery life of an M5 Macbook Pro with a twin OLED display might achieve if Apple maintains the battery size of the current Macbook Pros.

 

[Melbourne Park]

...

But it really depends what you’re doing. The iPad can do things the MacBook simply can’t. And vice versa. They are complimentary devices and some people’s use case sits heavily on the tablet side and increasingly so.

My wife would buy an Air if it had a touch screen (I'd put Parallels on it and Windows because she requires Windows Office's greater feature set). But I'm going to have to buy her something tomorrow I guess - Black Friday - and it might be a X360 HP as she is used to that, but she never uses its flip side character, due to its weight (circa 2018 her HP Elitebook). But - she absolutely loves a touch screen on her notebook. Its much faster and far more intuitive for her than using a trackpad for Word editing and inside Word tables. I've often found her typing away on her 13" notebook yet all she has to do is plug in a Thunderbolt cable and she gets a 32" monitor and a keyboard and mouse!

IMO Apple could make an iPad Air 13" with a permanent keyboard, and allow Mac OS on it. And if Apple allowed one to switch to IOS, one could have a very neat machine. But they want to make us spend more money, rather than focusing on customer needs. If they did I'd buy one for my wife (who loves her iPad Pro 10.9" but its battery is gone) such an Apple machine. But instead, I'm having to buy her a touch screen PC notebook. And instead of getting a new iPad, I think I'll put in a 3rd party battery (Apple refuse to).

To be fair though - the base iPad is outstanding value IMO.

 

[Digitalguy]

you know re-reading my message, i really meant for it to insult myself. i am the buyer of ipad pro with hopes and dreams of it replacing my mac. but as someone who works for a cloud based company who doesn't actually need too much, even the fact that google docs is trash on ipad pro makes things so hard. like ipad pros are really a bespoke machine, it may be worth it if it fits your particular use case.

but if apple tomorrow brought 120hz down to ipad air, like how many of us would still buy the ipad pro? I know I wouldn't. I am blessed enough to spend that much of a premium for a nice screen but I am honest with myself that I'm paying the apple tax.

you consider it has terrible value because you see it as a Mac replacement. I see it as a luxury tablet, and for me it's (kind of) worth the money (it's more worth it if you can buy it a couple of hundreds cheaper as I did).
I wouldn't get the air with 120hz as I barely care about promotion. I would get the M4 because of the weight and the speakers, and the screen.

 

[FlyingDutch]

I don't recall previous non iPad Pro users having issues with the other iPads being too heavy? I wonder too, how many iPad Pro M4 users do not use a cover, because they add too much weight?

But anyway, I looked at various video reviews, and was surprised at the results.

Firstly least the 13" M4 gets 18% better battery life than the 11".

You've been (I think) debating that weight is the main issue - but in fact, battery life of the iPad M4 is much much better than it was ... and its likely due to the duel OLED display, plus also the M4 is the most efficient processor yet.

The iPad Pro M4 13" has 50% more endurance than the M2 Air.
The 11" Pro M4 is about 30% better than the Air.
The 13" iPad Pro M4 has 18% more endurance than its 11" little brother.

If Apple had added 50 grams - which is about the weight of a good protector - then the battery life of the 11" could have got to 16 hours by my calculations, and adding maybe 75 grams (guessing here) to the 13" they may cracked 20 hours.

This is also complicated by user desires to increase battery life, which means not fully charging the battery (over 85% charging diminishes battery life cycles quite a lot).

I have now changed my mind - I think the iPad Pro M4 has made a huge improvement in battery life than before, and best of all, its an easy battery to replace. But it would have been possible for Apple to achieve notebook endurance in an iPad Pro by increasing the iPad's Pro M4's weight by maybe 10%.

It makes me ponder the battery life of an M5 Macbook Pro with a twin OLED display might achieve if Apple maintains the battery size of the current Macbook Pros.

Im not sure your weight to endurance ratio is reliable. You have to consider the physical space available inside the iPad

 

[FrozenDarkness]

you consider it has terrible value because you see it as a Mac replacement. I see it as a luxury tablet, and for me it's (kind of) worth the money (it's more worth it if you can buy it a couple of hundreds cheaper as I did).
I wouldn't get the air with 120hz as I barely care about promotion. I would get the M4 because of the weight and the speakers, and the screen.

wouldn't "luxury tablet" and buying it on sale already be agreeing that it's not great "value?"

 

[Melbourne Park]

Im not sure your weight to endurance ratio is reliable. You have to consider the physical space available inside the iPad

You're right.

Since the battery covers most of the internal area, and seems to be a semi amorphous construction (not solid underneath what looks like pouch type construction) I reckon simply making it 20% thicker would increase its capacity by the same. But that would make the iPad thicker ... but the battery is pretty slim. It would make the iPad thicker though. And not just the weight of the battery would increase - the sides of the iPad would use more metal, and hence another slight weight increase ... but maybe enough space then for storage port?

 

[haydesigner]

How do you draw on the MBP screen?

Aggressively.

 

[Reason077]

As an M4 iPad Pro owner, I can't get past the idea I have been had...
... total cost is above the MacBook Pro in most realistic scenarios. It is difficult to argue that the iPad Pro is a better, more technically advanced product than the MacBook Pro.

Unlike the MacBook Pro, the M4 iPad Pro has an OLED display. That's gotta be worth a couple hundred bucks.

 

[Reason077]

How do you draw on the MBP screen?

"Sharpie" permanent marker will do it

 

[Allen_Wentz]

This has been true since the first iPad Pro was launched in 2015. The iPad Pro was intended to revive the iPad family, which had dramatically fallen in sales and revenue because consumers rarely upgraded.

Apple is basically selling you the camera, touch, and cellular capabilities for a huge markup. If you add a keyboard, it even ends up heavier than MacBook Air.

You can make a similar argument against iPhone Pro Max by comparing it to iPad mini. The iPad mini is missing the earpiece speaker, thinner bezels, and extra cameras. But those will cost you $500.

The iPM camera quality alone is easily worth +$500 for those of us who really use it. I just really wish the iPM would support the Apple Pencil. The iPM would not need to carry/charge the AP. Third party pencil case chargers abound.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Guys,
Might as well let the thread die seeing as the OP hasn’t responded. It’s all a waste of time at this point.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

Guys,
Might as well let the thread die seeing as the OP hasn’t responded. It’s all a waste of time at this point.

just want to say that you have the most impressive apple collection i've seen on this forum.

 

[Adelphos33]

Guys,
Might as well let the thread die seeing as the OP hasn’t responded. It’s all a waste of time at this point.

I’m still monitoring. Not a ton to add at this point, good points made both ways

 

[TechWhisperer]

Sell it and buy your beloved MacBook at msrp.

 

[Digitalguy]

wouldn't "luxury tablet" and buying it on sale already be agreeing that it's not great "value?"

The question is how we define value. For me value is getting what you want at the best price possible. So the iPad air has hardly any value for me as it's not what I want, and even less is the iPad 10....I am not interested in a Macbook or in another iPad, so there is no this is a better value, it's just at what price do I get it.
Apple has pretty fat margins on the 13" pro so personally I waited a few months to find it for a couple of hundred dollar cheaper.
At that price it's good value.
Luxury is just the iPhone pro (max), it's a luxury phone, but a lot of people buy it anyway... so they consider it's worth it.

 

[throAU]

The question is how we define value. For me value is getting what you want at the best price possible. So the iPad air has hardly any value for me as it's not what I want, and even less is the iPad 10....I am not interested in a Macbook or in another iPad, so there is no this is a better value, it's just at what price do I get it.
Apple has pretty fat margins on the 13" pro so personally I waited a few months to find it for a couple of hundred dollar cheaper.
At that price it's good value.
Luxury is just the iPhone pro (max), it's a luxury phone, but a lot of people buy it anyway... so they consider it's worth it.

An alternative way of defining value is what a device will do to "enrich my life" via either entertainment, reducing stress or assisting me with my work.

Reducing stress and assisting me with my work (productivity improvement) is why I buy apple equipment despite the price. $ vs. spec is entirely secondary, I've already decided to go for the apple option these days based on software platform integration, which is worth more to me than some spec sheet difference.

 

[Digitalguy]

An alternative way of defining value is what a device will do to "enrich my life" via either entertainment, reducing stress or assisting me with my work.

Reducing stress and assisting me with my work (productivity improvement) is why I buy apple equipment despite the price. $ vs. spec is entirely secondary, I've already decided to go for the apple option these days based on software platform integration, which is worth more to me than some spec sheet difference.

Totally fine perspective too.
Personally, I think that I don't even need a device to be "productive" for my work to consider it worth it. Why I do use the iPad for work too, I would still consider it worth it as a premium media consumption device. And the idea that spending over a thousand dollar for enternainement is not worth it make me laugh when people buy huge OLED TVs that cost more than an iPad pro and use them just for entertainement....

 

[throAU]

And the idea that spending over a thousand dollar for enternainement is not worth it make me laugh when people buy huge OLED TVs that cost more than an iPad pro and use them just for entertainement....

Yup.

My work carry these days is an iPad Air + keyboard case and pencil + the m4 max MacBook Pro, and Apple Watch ultra2 and an iPhone 13 mini.

About $9700 AUD or thereabouts worth of gear I have personally bought to make my life easier with both my work, and to pull double duty for home life stuff.

Sounds like a lot of money, until you consider that I use the MacBook probably on average 8 hours per day, the iPhone almost as much (and its my wallet, password manager, 2FA device, etc.) and the iPad probably 2 hours a day or so for note taking, second display, etc.

I spend a significant portion of my life using these devices (like, 2/3 of my waking hours on average); paying more to have devices to do these jobs that I don't hate (or even come to mildly regret, as in 12-18 months in "I wish I spent a little more for X") is worth it . Its the difference between enjoying my usage of the stuff and it getting in the way of what I am trying to do.

 

[snipr125]

Yup.

My work carry these days is an iPad Air + keyboard case and pencil + the m4 max MacBook Pro, and Apple Watch ultra2 and an iPhone 13 mini.

About $9700 AUD or thereabouts worth of gear I have personally bought to make my life easier with both my work, and to pull double duty for home life stuff.

Sounds like a lot of money, until you consider that I use the MacBook probably on average 8 hours per day, the iPhone almost as much (and its my wallet, password manager, 2FA device, etc.) and the iPad probably 2 hours a day or so for note taking, second display, etc.

I spend a significant portion of my life using these devices (like, 2/3 of my waking hours on average); paying more to have devices to do these jobs that I don't hate (or even come to mildly regret, as in 12-18 months in "I wish I spent a little more for X") is worth it . Its the difference between enjoying my usage of the stuff and it getting in the way of what I am trying to do.

Much respect to you Sir!

 

[joshwithachance]

Subjective, different for everyone. Great value for me, I use the 13" M4 a lot.

And I love that for you! But for $1300+ my money is going toward a MacBook instead. Which I perceive as the FAR superior product; not only in regard to the OS but the fact that it comes as a complete package right out the box.

Now the iPad Air starting at $599, that fundamentally does EVERYTHING the Pro does for about half the price... THAT I can get behind.

 

[sparksd]

And I love that for you! But for $1300+ my money is going toward a MacBook instead. Which I perceive as the FAR superior product; not only in regard to the OS but the fact that it comes as a complete package right out the box.

Now the iPad Air starting at $599, that fundamentally does EVERYTHING the Pro does for about half the price... THAT I can get behind.

But the thing for me is that I don't want a Mac of any sort at all or another laptop - I want a high-end tablet.

 

[Gnattu]

IMO the pricing of iPad Pro looks bad because the capability of current iPadOS is too limited compared to macOS which makes the super capable hardware less useful than it should be. Yes, it does have some thing it is good at but most of them does not need a CPU as fast as M4 and a fancy display, which means the iPad Air at half the price is also very capable. I had a high hope that Apple would made iPadOS more capable and makes it completely different from the iPhoneOS, but it has been a few years and the capability has not improved to the extent that I would happily use it as a production machine. It does not even have a sane background processing mechanism that every computer class OS should have and you have to keep the window open or inside the stage manager to just wait for a long running process like photo exporting or video rendering is ridiculous to me. This is an iPad that can have the same amount of memory as the Mac and it is capable to run multiple tasks at the same time, but Apple is still super conservative on that. They can even make that as an iPad Pro only feature to make the Pro feels Pro.

 

[Digitalguy]

And I love that for you! But for $1300+ my money is going toward a MacBook instead. Which I perceive as the FAR superior product; not only in regard to the OS but the fact that it comes as a complete package right out the box.

Now the iPad Air starting at $599, that fundamentally does EVERYTHING the Pro does for about half the price... THAT I can get behind.

Paradoxically, for productivity the iPad air makes more sense than the pro, since you can get it with the MK for little less or little more than $1000. And you can do the same things.
For media consumption instead the pro has no rivals with its screen, speakers and weight.
As I said some people cannot accept the idea that you can spend $1000 or more for that, but sometimes the same people spend even more in things like big TVs, sound systems etc. It's just a matter of priorities.
I would never spend $1000+ on a TV, I wouldn't even buy a TV in the first place.
But I want the best large tablet available for video and for reading/annotating PDFs, and that's the 13" iPad pro.

 

[throAU]

Much respect to you Sir!

If I want a large screen portable I have an iPad for that