M4 Pro Mac mini - form over function?

[Confused-User]

4. The power button. Maybe not a deal breaker but it staggers me that anybody would try to defend this stupid decision (presumably to save a few cents on each unit by not having to incorporate a proper button on the case*). I mean... "you don't need a power button, just put it in sleepm so we're leaving it off" would have been a courageous decision to discuss but accepting that some people need a power button ...and then putting it in a ridiculous position is just plain bananas.

Seriously???

How many times a year do you use a Mac power button (not for fingerprint recognition, but to power on/off)? Once? Twice? I think it's probably been twice since I got My M2 Air over a year ago.

Clearly they have issues with back panel space. This is a reasonable design call. I don't love it, but as a negative it's too small to measure. And actually, it might be a positive - there's no chance of it being bumped by something else on your desk. I've seen that happen, though not to a Mac.

 

[Mr.Fox]

Guys, go read my post #40 again. "Throttling" is ill-defined and doesn't really say anything useful. Beyond that:
1) Definitely not "indefinite fully sustained workloads". Not a chance, and nobody should be expecting that.
2) The "unbinned" (really, better-binned) M4 Pro will run at somewhat lower clocks when fully utilized, as you've got two more cores capable of putting out what, 10-14W more? But that's sort of the point. NONE of the cores run at top speed in that case, and because lower clocks are more efficient, your 10 cores will still give you better performance than 8 would. (The higher-binned 10P likely also has better efficiency across its 10 cores, which is why it's higher binned, but that's likely a much smaller effect.)


Yeah, it's not clear to me that that really helped them all that much.


You can say lots of things, but so far, at least in this thread, they've all been arrant nonsense. You know nothing, nor will you at least until someone who understands this gets their hands on one and writes about it.

And why should I wait for someone when I studied it all at the institute and for a year? ))))

 

[G5isAlive]

Yeah, my general intuition on the Mini, and especially now crammed into a much smaller chassis, is that it's probably a device that shouldn't really offer a Pro chip in there (from a cooling/thermals/throttling POV), but we'll see what third party testing reveals.

IMO -- the real reason they offer the Pro chip in here is to make sure they have it tiering right up to the edge of the Studios

Tim Cook's whole leveling up strategy really necessitates some ambiguity for the customer as the Mini Pro approaches the Studio and it's gets close enough to induce ... "hey, maybe I should just pay a little more and buy a Studio!?"

In a nutshell...

Tim Cook Apple is all about having enough SKUs to get folks thinking "maybe I should just pay a little bit more?"

Or.... maybe thermal throttling is really only a thing for most devices under constant and heavy load, so like maybe 0.1% of users, but for the rest of the 99.9% maybe some of them would like short bursts of improved activity over the standard M4 (like photo editing?). It's not always about the evil Apple trying to unfairly lead a weak willed person down a prim rose path. You don't seem to have a high opinion of your fellow sometimes consumers if you think they can't resist Tim. Choice is good. The standard M4 isnt that interesting to me, I have it in my iPad, the Pro makes this an interesting device to me.

 

[Outsiderdude26]

What firewire gear do you have connected? I'm curious as Apple has long since discontinued support for audio and video over firewire. I think Catalina was the last to support audio and Monterey to support video. I still have firewire400 audio gear that works well but requires me to keep an old 2018 MBP running Catalina in order to actually use it.

have an old digi 002 rack that was black lion modded, the one with burr brown converters and g-raid drive that's still chugging along

i use parallels for an older version of mac os and still at times use pro tools 7/8.

it's not an every day thing as i have a newer universal audio x16d, but the digi rack has a nostalgia factor to it

 

[Analog Kid]

And why should I wait for someone when I studied it all at the institute and for a year? ))))

That tracks...

 

[Siliconguy]

Those who prefers to keep their USB-A stuff will have the opportunity to keep their old machine OR getting cables covering their needs.

Four for $9.

 

[Confused-User]

And why should I wait for someone when I studied it all at the institute and for a year? ))))

I don't believe you are posting in good faith so I'm done talking to you.

 

[Mr.Fox]

I don't believe you are posting in good faith so I'm done talking to you.

What a loss!
Don't believe it. Turn off your computer and look out the window.

 

[macguru9999]

The location of the power button is a huge red flag to me. what other hidden stuff ups are there ?

 

[ProgRocker]

No audio jack in the back ? How are we supposed to connect to an audio speaker system ?
Not interested in fighting with Bluetooth...

 

[EugW]

No audio jack in the back ? How are we supposed to connect to an audio speaker system ?
Not interested in fighting with Bluetooth...

In the front, as awkward as that may be.

 

[leman]

@Peter_M I have difficulty imagining a home/office computer more functional than the Mini. It's compact, energy efficient, silent, comes with high-speed connectivity, supports displays aplenty, and has more CPU performance than most desktop towers. How is that form over function? Just because it's small? Why does everything has to be large and unwieldy?

 

[Analog Kid]

No audio jack in the back ? How are we supposed to connect to an audio speaker system ?
Not interested in fighting with Bluetooth...

USB adapter?

Apple USB-C to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter | Verizon

USB-C to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter: Connects devices that use 3.5 mm audio plugs with USB-C devices. For use with headphones, speakers and more. Get it at Verizon.

www.verizon.com

Takes a port though...

 

[Nismo73]

So they only put the mic jack in front and the power button on the bottom bc they only wanted to make it only so wide.

 

[EugW]

So they only put the mic jack in front and the power button on the bottom bc they only wanted to make it only so wide.

They could have put the jack in the back as there is space for it vertically, but I think it was a choice to move it in front since so many people have asked for that. Sucks for me though, since I don't use wired headphones with my Mac. I use wired speakers (so a rear port would look cleaner), and AirPods.

The part about the power button doesn't bother me at all though.

USB adapter?

https://www.verizon.com/products/apple-usb-c-to-3-5mm-headphone-jack-adapter-cable/?sku=sku3260276

Takes a port though...

Yeah, and it would be a Thunderbolt 4/5 port too.

 

[G5isAlive]

I see this topic got people riled up, but I've been using Apple computers for 20+ years, and I'm a big fan overall (although Apple products are becoming prohibitively expensive here).

I've been waiting to update to Apple silicon for a long time, and hopefully Mac Mini M4 Pro will deliver - with both performance and user experience. Fingers crossed!

I wouldn't say the topic has folks riled up... but the aggressive manner its presented seems to be designed to stir the pot. Well done!

Why is the new Mac Mini so ridiculously small? Unless Apple has pulled off some engineering marvel, there's simply no way to effectively offload the necessary heat from the M4 Pro chip during sustained high CPU loads. There is a heat pipe there, but that's pretty much it.

I mean is it really ridiculously small? Or is that just your opinion? And you forgot the fan, so yep people got riled.

But maybe these days introducing ANY topic, ANY way, is going to get people riled.

still, have to think if the topic was 'do you think the new Mac mini will suffer from thermal throttling?' which is essentially what you were covering here, the thread might have gone a different way.

Just saying.

Anyway, good question. You got a lot of good answers, including let's wait and see real world tests. Buy it and return it if it doesn't work for you (it might not routinely throttle and get noisy).

 

[theluggage]

How many times a year do you use a Mac power button

About 365. Plus the odd occasion when it doesn't shut down for some reason. Why leave something running when you're not gonna use it for 10 hours?

Just because you never use something doesn't mean nobody else does.

Clearly they have issues with back panel space.

No, they had issues with making the back panel too small to fit the required ports and switches (probably why they "lost" a 4th rear TB4 port on the M4 Pro) because they designed the case first and then had to fit the computer into it.

there's no chance of it being bumped by something else on your desk. I've seen that happen, though not to a Mac.

Well, at least that proves that you never use the power switch. You have to press and hold to force a power-off - you're not going to shut it down by accident.

 

[EugW]

About 365. Plus the odd occasion when it doesn't shut down for some reason. Why leave something running when you're not gonna use it for 10 hours?

I believe it uses less than 1 Watt in sleep mode.

 

[Nismo73]

They could have put the jack in the back as there is space for it vertically, but I think it was a choice to move it in front since so many people have asked for that. Sucks for me though, since I don't use wired headphones with my Mac. I use wired speakers (so a rear port would look cleaner), and AirPods.

The part about the power button doesn't bother me at all though.


Yeah, and it would be a Thunderbolt 4/5 port too.

I have speakers plugged into my Mac Studio…add me to the “mic jack in the back” crew.

 

[asdfjkl;]

This being said the base model mini with the Apple Studio display might be the best desktop for someone that needs a computer for general use. Doing things like browsing the web, social media, video conferencing, light photo editing, typing office documents, etc.

And in reality the ASD is waaaay too much for this kind of user. A basic 1440p monitor at a third of the price would be more than fine for this workflow.

 

[bryo]

The m3 pro tdp is 27 watts, there are windows handhelds than can draw more power with a similar or smaller cooling system. The m4 pro is presumably in a similar power envelope I don’t really think thermals will be a huge concern.

 

[leman]

The m3 pro tdp is 27 watts, there are windows handhelds than can draw more power with a similar or smaller cooling system. The m4 pro is presumably in a similar power envelope I don’t really think thermals will be a huge concern.

50-70 watts are more likely, but that is easily dissipated in that chassis. I have little doubt that it is going to be silent under load.

 

[Abazigal]

But if I add the cost up of switching out my USB-A gear just to have it fit into the M4 Pro mini's I/O, then the higher costs for a M4 Max Studio (basic configuration) might cost me less in total and then also provide a little more CPU/GPU power.

Would it be feasible to get one of those usb hubs that sport multiple usb-A ports and continue connecting your accessories through that?

 

[NewOldStock]

So Apple has bad engineers and MR peeps know how to build it. 🙂‍↔️
Trillion $$$ company that knows nothing on how to build anything.
Don't get some people.

 

[rukind2]

@Peter_M I have difficulty imagining a home/office computer more functional than the Mini. It's compact, energy efficient, silent, comes with high-speed connectivity, supports displays aplenty, and has more CPU performance than most desktop towers. How is that form over function? Just because it's small? Why does everything has to be large and unwieldy?

How do you know it's silent?