M4 Pro Mac mini - form over function?

[fischersd]

Me, I don't see the point of making it smaller (and the data centre guys that were using mini's won't be happy). It's kinda like Jony's obsession with making things thin.

I think it's ugly. Putting ports on the front, while more functional, also provide a stark contract to the brushed aluminum...and the headphone jack?! It should have been offered in black, like the ATV so people had a more aesthetically pleasing option.

(I also think the studio is ugly as all f---).

Glad I picked up my M2 Pro mini a couple years back....now wishing I had waited for the M3 to prolong its lifespan.

This'll be just like me and my iPhone 13 mini....hang onto it as long as I can before I upgrade again as the options aren't palatable.

 

[asdfjkl;]

Well, I'll certainly be waiting on reviews before purchasing one. Only makes sense with a new design. However, the real question is what compromises did Apple make when designing the new Mini? Every computer setup is a collection of compromises. Clearly the old Mini was not only too large for what AS's thermal requirements but also had a way oversized power supply. Both of those are a waste of money and natural resources.

There's no way the Mini design team did not collaborate with the AS team and have thermal guidance for, at least, several generations out. This design will likely be around for 10+ years. So certainly they could have prioritized cost over cooling capacity. TC clearly wanted larger margins on the Mini and one way to get them is by reducing the size of the enclosure.

Wait for reviews before buying if you can wait. If it throttles under extended load it will come out. It'll probably be a big deal.

 

[russell_314]

It is an article about a picture Apple put up on their website. There is no data, in the article, about how it works.

It basically said it pulls air over each level, but yeah, there’s no data. That’s not going to come out till ifixit takes one apart.

I still believe this is targeted at home and light computing. I don’t think this is targeted towards big content creators or movie studios. Sure some small YouTube creator could use it to edit videos, but this isn’t something for MKBHD’s production team.

 

[russell_314]

Me, I don't see the point of making it smaller (and the data centre guys that were using mini's won't be happy). It's kinda like Jony's obsession with making things thin.

I think it’s great that it’s smaller. There’s no reason for it to be that big. It was that big because of it had an Intel processor. You have to remember that the old mini is still the same housing when it had an Intel i7 processor

I think it's ugly. Putting ports on the front, while more functional, also provide a stark contract to the brushed aluminum...and the headphone jack?! It should have been offered in black, like the ATV so people had a more aesthetically pleasing option.

This proves you can’t make everyone happy. If Apple didn’t put ports on the front, their would be hundreds of comments of with people saying why did Apple miss such a basic opportunity. I’m not saying your opinion isn’t valid, but everyone has a different opinion and Apple had to make a judgment call on what to do.

(I also think the studio is ugly as all f---).

Glad I picked up my M2 Pro mini a couple years back....now wishing I had waited for the M3 to prolong its lifespan.

This'll be just like me and my iPhone 13 mini....hang onto it as long as I can before I upgrade again as the options aren't palatable.

I don’t think it’s ugly, but it does look a little chunky being so tall. Perhaps Apple could’ve made two versions of the body with a shorter version for the regular non Pro. I suspect this would not have made sense when it comes to production though. You can’t hide it off your desk or even attach it to the back of a monitor. It’s not going to look as good as the iMac.

 

[streetfunk]

i agree to some degree (his main point) with the OP, this IS form over function !
there is even nothing to discuss about that. It´s that obvious.
Why folks felt entitled to attack the OP the way several of you did, is beyond my comprehension.
Not seen such bevore in this forum.



I´m also from the audio work camp.
if it really will affect us, and how much has to be seen.

Yes, it´s absolutely clear that the shown cooling solution is NOT an ideal design.
Check the airflow !
But maybe it will suffice ? i personally doubt it.
It might turn out to be a similar situation as has been seen with 14" MBP Max vs. 16" MBP Max, Mini vs. Studio M4.
I much expect his to be the case. Time will tell.

i ordered the 14core M4mini.
I won´t have long sustained tasks under full workload.
I will have sessions with some few cores under heavy loads.
I should be fine.

Yes, thats a hipster PR product. NOT a full pro "studio" product.
I mean, thats obvious.

But i find it funny, I see its charme
personally, for me, the connectivity and cooling counts most.

No M4 studio available, so i had to jump on the mini.
if i had thought this one could be my "big audio machine" i had opted for the totally overpriced 48GB RAM upgrade. But i did not !
I might "have" to switch over to a M4 studio.......time will tell.

yes, i totally don´t trust this cooling design.
But we know nothing so far about the heating-up situation
so, there´s that too

 

[fathergll]

Why is the new Mac Mini so ridiculously small?

Because Apple wants to sell more of them and if they just put in the M4 into the existing model it wouldn't have sold as well or create all the headlines. It's a smart move from Apple even if it is form over function. I suspect this model will do decent but I am sure there might be some limitations.

Apple has a lot of history of form over function. It's the reason we ended up with the 2013 trashcan Mac Pro when Apple could have easily just put some Xeons in a functional larger case but it's Apple. They don't actually make much revenue as a percentage from their Desktops. They are not in the business of just functional products, they want a news headline with it.

 

[boak]

The old Mac Mini was like half empty... Also, a bigger enclosure does not guarantee a better cooling solution. And there is a point where it is sufficiently large - no need to be larger than required.

 

[aevan]

See, this is the kind of Apple apologetics I don't get, with all respect obviously. So, if Apple had made the Mac Mini slightly larger, instead of overdoing the size reduction for the "wow-factor" during their presentation, you might as well get the Mac Pro? Seriously...

Mac Mini’s small footprint has always been a feature of function. A lot of people appreciate its small volume, especially if you’re stacking a lot of them. There are numerous examples where this is a very practical benefit, and this one will be even better. I doubt it will throttle or have any thermal issues at all.

And it’s also cool, yes, nothing wrong with that.

But if you want to call mentioning facts apologist, you go right ahead. Nothing will change Apple haters’ minds.

 

[PaulD-UK]

Looking at the M2 Pro mini heatsink (R) the new M4 mini's airflow seems similarly sized.

The new design may have a 'bury' mount fan, mounted within the heatsink, so the new cooling could be as efficient as the old design, with the only difference being that the new M4 mini has a heat pipe to the heatsink - which the M2 Pro mini didn't have.

I expect the M4 Pro cooling to be as efficient and effective as the old one, as the old design didn't have the airflow directed over the logic board as nearly as effectively as this design (PSU on top layer) does.

Whether the new 'extruded' aluminium case is as robust as the old machined one was remains to be seen...

 

[aevan]

Why has no one mentioned the elephant in the room; the power button on the bottom, and worse yet, in the back?

Because it’s a nothingburger.

“Elephant in the room”, right.

When was the last time you shut down your Mac? As for your Magic Mouse running out of battery example, when was the last time it happened at the exact time your Keyboard also lost power? And let’s say all that happens - I can imagine the physical strain of reaching for that button at the bottom - oh the agony!

 

[rukind2]

...but if anybody wants to buy a powerful desktop Mac for serious content creation today or, likely, during the next 6 months - and isn't in the small niche that needs a Studio Ultra (or the even smaller niche who absolutely need the PCIe in the Mac Pro), the only choice is a M4 Pro Mac Mini or outdated M2 Max Studio.

Whether or not it is faster overall, the M4 Pro beats the M2 Max on bangs-per-buck, and will blow it out of the water for hardware ray tracing, and maybe AI stuff.

Likewise, the M4 Max may not reliably beat the M3 Ultra on all tasks, but it would give it a serious run for its money and likely beat it on tasks that didn't utilise all of the extra cores on the Ultra.

The only reason I can see for not releasing a M4 Max Studio now is that it might spoil the market for the M4 Ultra Studio if/when that arrives - but on past performance that's going to cost twice as much as the Max version, so would they really be in competition?

Thank goodness outdated does not mean obsolete.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Hi,


I've been waiting for the "right" next Apple desktop to come along, still using my 2018 i7 Mac Mini.

Now with M4 Pro we get 10 performance cores + 64gb RAM, that's great stuff.

However, it seems yet again Apple is overdoing the segmentation of their products. The Mac Mini is a great option for those of us, that only need a powerful CPU (vs. GPU) for stuff like Logic Pro etc.

Why is the new Mac Mini so ridiculously small? Unless Apple has pulled off some engineering marvel, there's simply no way to effectively offload the necessary heat from the M4 Pro chip during sustained high CPU loads. There is a heat pipe there, but that's pretty much it.

This will most likely end up being a very hot computer easily reaching 100+ Celsius, thus throttling the CPU, with a noisy fan ramping up and down.

I get some people want a glorified iPad in a box for Office and Internet surfing, but again Apple gets too aggressive with their design (eg. previous MacBook Pro gen). They could easily have made the new Mac Mini 30-40% larger, and it would still be small and portable, but with more beefy cooling for a silent experience, and non-throttling CPU.

I'd definitely wait for the reviews on this one, for anything beyond Office work and web browsing...

Wow, I certainly disagree with the attitude expressed by the OP. The Mac mini is Apple's lowest end desktop with base RAM just doubled and chip upgraded to M4 power; yet the OP is whining because it is not a Studio. Sheesh. The Mac Mini is designed primarily for "Office work and web browsing..."

The latest Mac mini design is a good job of form and function.

 

[stocklen]

Hi,


I've been waiting for the "right" next Apple desktop to come along, still using my 2018 i7 Mac Mini.

Now with M4 Pro we get 10 performance cores + 64gb RAM, that's great stuff.

However, it seems yet again Apple is overdoing the segmentation of their products. The Mac Mini is a great option for those of us, that only need a powerful CPU (vs. GPU) for stuff like Logic Pro etc.

Why is the new Mac Mini so ridiculously small? Unless Apple has pulled off some engineering marvel, there's simply no way to effectively offload the necessary heat from the M4 Pro chip during sustained high CPU loads. There is a heat pipe there, but that's pretty much it.

This will most likely end up being a very hot computer easily reaching 100+ Celsius, thus throttling the CPU, with a noisy fan ramping up and down.

I get some people want a glorified iPad in a box for Office and Internet surfing, but again Apple gets too aggressive with their design (eg. previous MacBook Pro gen). They could easily have made the new Mac Mini 30-40% larger, and it would still be small and portable, but with more beefy cooling for a silent experience, and non-throttling CPU.

I'd definitely wait for the reviews on this one, for anything beyond Office work and web browsing...

With respect you've no idea how its heat dissipation works - nobody does they haven't got it in hand yet. Im sure Apple knows that they are doing when it comes to heat dissipation and thermal design.

Why not make it smaller? Why not use less aluminium in its construction when theres no need to waste space and materials making something unnecessarily large? Why waste space on shipping containers and packaging for larger boxes that are unnecessary.

If it makes you feel any better I doubt it will get any smaller as it will be constrained by still having to accommodate physical ports.

One day in the future of course it will shrink further or even disappear inside your portable device altogether when power and peripheral connectivity are all wireless and a device will just need a wireless connection to a display to function.

But for now... lets not yearn for a return to those old 80's hifis that were large because they were socially accepted to be large and yet look inside and they contained mostly air.

 

[stocklen]

y

Wow, I certainly disagree with the attitude expressed by the OP. The Mac mini is Apple's lowest end desktop with base RAM just doubled and chip upgraded to M4 power; yet the OP is whining because it is not a Studio. Sheesh. The Mac Mini is designed primarily for "Office work and web browsing..."

The latest Mac mini design is a good job of form and function.

yep.
Complaining that the product called the Mac MINI is in fact too MINI is a bit daft.

The clue is in the name.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

See, this is the kind of Apple apologetics I don't get, with all respect obviously. So, if Apple had made the Mac Mini slightly larger, instead of overdoing the size reduction for the "wow-factor" during their presentation, you might as well get the Mac Pro? Seriously...

This is (most likely) Apple creating a problem that didn't need to exist. Just like with the previous MacBook Pro machines, which were so thin they become overly hot and uncomfortable to use, including the awful butterfly keyboard.

Don't get me wrong, I want it to succeed, as the Pro chip makes more sense for my audio/music work. Maybe Apple did some engineering "magic" on the new Mac Mini, but that seems unlikely given the limitations of heat transfer mechanics.

Respectfully, it seems the OP totally fails to understand the idea of product lines. The Mac minis are the low end. Then the [apparent vaporware again] Studios are the middle end, and the [TBD] Mac Pros are the high end. The new Mac mini fits its low end role perfectly. Folks wanting more for less are just that: folks wanting more for less.

The issue seems to be with the OP (and others, judging from the likes on the OP post). Because I also disagree with the OP analysis of Macbook Pros: "Apple creating a problem that didn't need to exist... ...the previous MacBook Pro machines, which were so thin they become overly hot and uncomfortable to use." As a user of Mac laptops since the Duos, I do not recall instances of users considering that MBPs were designed too thin.

MBP users wanted power and recognized that with power [at that time] came heat issues. No one wanted fatter MBPs. No one. We all had come from the Powerbook generation which was fatter, weaker and still overly hot and uncomfortable to use when hit with heavy images work. In fact IIRC the Powerbook G3 was the hottest of all the Mac laptops. MBPs design was well received and the MBPs sold accordingly.

 

[heretiq]

See, this is the kind of Apple apologetics I don't get, with all respect obviously. So, if Apple had made the Mac Mini slightly larger, instead of overdoing the size reduction for the "wow-factor" during their presentation, you might as well get the Mac Pro? Seriously...

This is (most likely) Apple creating a problem that didn't need to exist. Just like with the previous MacBook Pro machines, which were so thin they become overly hot and uncomfortable to use, including the awful butterfly keyboard.

Don't get me wrong, I want it to succeed, as the Pro chip makes more sense for my audio/music work. Maybe Apple did some engineering "magic" on the new Mac Mini, but that seems unlikely given the limitations of heat transfer mechanics.

This is the kind of Apple cynicism I don’t get with all due respect. Instead of waiting to see the facts and respond accordingly, write a post assuming the worst and asking for others opinions, then complain when someone expresses a rational, non-cynical response. Why ask for opinions?

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Great question. Because if for some reason it is not silent, I will not buy one. So it had better be silent. I am waiting for youtubers to help me out with this.

Forget the YouTubers. They seek clicks, not data, and sensationalize their entertainment videos accordingly. Sound, even moreso than other metrics, is very much a function of test setup. Clickbait.

 

[SpotOnT]

Agreed. I wouldn’t buy a M4 Pro Mini until the reviews come out and confirm thermals.

Luckily the Mac Studio is a wonderful machine too, and base price is not far off the M4 Pro Mini.

 

[G5isAlive]

i agree to some degree (his main point) with the OP, this IS form over function !
there is even nothing to discuss about that. It´s that obvious.

If it's that obvious, explain it to us. And don't mention heat dissipation as we have zero data on how the new heatsink/fan/configuration will perform.

The form cuts down on material usage and space. Sounds like function to me.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

In the front, as awkward as that may be.

What is awkward about the audio jack being on the front? The front is ideal for headphones; awkward is trying to constantly be plugging headphones into the back of a device.

 

[EugW]

What is awkward about the audio jack being on the front? The front is ideal for headphones; awkward is trying to constantly be plugging headphones into the back of a device.

Computer speaker cable coming out of the front of the unit looks terrible.

 

[hagjohn]

What is awkward about the audio jack being on the front? The front is ideal for headphones; awkward is trying to constantly be plugging headphones into the back of a device.

I would like to see a poll of who uses wired headphones vs wireless.

 

[G5isAlive]

Computer speaker cable coming out of the front of the unit looks terrible.

That's your subjective opinion at best, to me cables snaking around a computer look terrible. No right or wrong. But hey, this is a discussion of form over function I suppose.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

$1400 for the M4 Pro Mini (with BTO options that easily take it over the $2000 mark, even without resorting to the super-expensive 4G/8G SSD options) is not what I'd call "entry level" for a headless desktop sans display/keyboard/mouse.

I'm sure the base M4 will be fine - it's a chip designed for fanless laptops and tablets - and seems to be all-round better than the old $600 Mini. The question is over the M4 Pro model - we'll have to see about the cooling, but it's also lost a physical TB port c.f. the M2 Pro Mini (and more bandwidth on the 3 existing ports isn't going to pay off for most people without a TB5 hub or a super-expesive DP 2.1 display).

...and, so far, the Studio still has a 2-generations-out-of-date processor (not even a M3 Max, which was a big step forward from the M2 Max, with more cores, hardware ray tracing etc.) so its not a particularly compelling buy. Unless Apple are going to surprise us today or tomorrow (which would go against all the rumours).

You opine "is not what I'd call 'entry level.'" But fact is that it is Apple's entry level.

Personally I agree with the idea that Apple should work to lower its entry level, and IMO the new Mac minis do that by offering more power at similar pricing.

 

[theluggage]

When was the last time you shut down your Mac?

Last night. Maybe I don't need to shut it down every night, but definitely if I'm going to be away for a few days. Nearly today when Mail hung for some reason and looked like it wasn't going to quit without a hard power-down.

The Mac minis are the low end. Then the [apparent vaporware again] Studios are the middle end, and the [TBD] Mac Pros are the high end.

Well, (a) as you say, the Studio is still on the M2 series so who knows if/when there will be a version worth buying.
(b) the M4 Pro Mini isn't exactly low end - even sensible configs (i.e. not adding a 4 or 8 GB storage just to blow up the price) can end up over $2000. For the moment the M4 Pro Mini is going to offer better bangs-per-buck than the M2 Max Studio.

Range-wise, really, the M4 Mini is low-end (for Mac) the M4 Pro Mini is mid-range and the Studio (if/when it gets updated) is high-end. The Mac Pro is now a niche, specialist model for users who absolutely must have high-bandwidth internal PCIe slots at any cost - it makes no sense otherwise.

I do not recall instances of users considering that MBPs were designed too thin.

Remember the 2016 Mac Pro? The butterfly keyboard repair programs? Noise? Throttling? Limited ports? Lousy battery life? All - at least in part - to making it thinner. Maybe nobody complained about it being "too thin" but they certainly complained about the consequences - and Apple made later MBP models thicker.