Says who? I never connect any of my desktops wirelessly, they don't need to be moved so they might as well get the benefit of a faster connection. If my router was in a separate room, I would run a cable from it to a switch in a room with my IT kit.
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Mac mini 2013/2014 refresh.
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Says who? I never connect any of my desktops wirelessly, they don't need to be moved so they might as well get the benefit of a faster connection. If my router was in a separate room, I would run a cable from it to a switch in a room with my IT kit.
Apple has never been a imitator and a mirror for anyone. They are a innovator.
The new Mini will follow innovation that will last to and beyond the next refresh just like the present Mini. They take their time to make sure it is perfected. If they could just move beyond the boat anchor of Intel the innovation would progress much faster.
that would be surprising since Intel's NUC has so far dumped Thunderbolt. I doubt the Mini is going to follow that lead.
[ perhaps Intel is waiting for TB v2 controllers to go to volume production. ]
And a 1.3GHz base clock rate? Tracking the MBA for major components and design cues isn't going to help the MacMini unless they are aiming to substantially switch targeted markets.
NUC are more so aiming at boxes for somewhat embedded projects. A box with some purpose for now and could move to another purpose later with some component shifts and perhaps another task specific OS version installed.
The Mac Pro is smaller largely because Apple moved to embedded GPUs to align with Thunderbolt. That brings the Mac Pro into alignment with where the rest of the Mac ecosystem is going. Decoupling the Mac Pro from the larger Mac ecosystem wasn't working and that wasn't likely going to change.
Throw in the jihad on removing ODDs ( 5.25 bays toast ) , focus to SSDs, and bit of lowering shipping/inventory costs.
Finally throw on top targeting it as a desktop as opposed to a floor standing design and it is what it is.
It is smaller because much of the design constraints changed, not smaller for primarily for smaller sake.
Those are similar in the reduction of the Mac Pro to a smaller size but not particularly already small/minimized and push to smaller still.
The iMac tossed ODDs. If don't need a flat edge for the ODD anymore then it goes. Rearrange the internals so they are not gratuitously spread out and just simply remove some of the now empty space.
The iMac isn't thinner, the edges are thinner. Precisely where the ODD was dropped and highly symmetrical around the perimeter.
there is little miniaturization there at all. It is the heavy bet on digital transmission (and Flash based sneaker net ) over sneaker net with optical drives that is the driving factor.
Performer relative too ?
The iMac was handicapped a bit when it had laptop graphics and CPU. Since, enabling a desktop CPU the iMac has been on a substantial growth path. The Mini hasn't.
Strategically it would probably make more sense to shift the Mini from tracking laptops to tracking the iMac ( at least the 21.5" models ).
Instead of retreating backwards in cohort performance, standing ground and trying to put more value into the fixed price point that Apple is at.
Brix Pro is more expensive than an Mac Mini and it doesn't even have an OS that needs to be paid for.
Anantech's completed system is far over the Mac Mini price point ( $900+ )
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7648/gigabyte-brix-pro
Haven't even gotten to Apple's 30% mark up.
Better power opens the door for additional functionality if leverage the trade-off. Iris / Iris Pro power efficiency may go up but the pricing isn't going to crater as fast. Shrinking the Mini "too small" likely means there are certain CPU/GPU performance options not going be able to leverage. Products that plug into the wall just are not as driven by power as primarily battery operated systems are. Apple could chase the battery systems with the mini but the real market competitors don't have that limitation.
Following the MBA for cues is highly unlikely to make for a system competitive in the desktop market. Apple could move the Mini out of the desktop market
None of the other Mac desktops are dumping Ethernet. Not sure what benefits it has for Mini given those as sticking with it. The more cluttered Wifi RF space gets the utility of having wired Ethernet goes up.
Firewire sure... it is gone from the other desktops. But those also have two TB ports. Mini would likely trade rather than reduce.
SD card sneaker net is bigger world wide that most folks imagine. It also don't buy any space either unless toss the audio input and output out the window also. ( it is a shared space vertically).
Anybody know how many A7 it would take to equal an i7? At the point when a pair of A8 or A9 can surpass intel, it does seem like a slam dunk. On the other hand, I also remember what the Motorola days were like. Many conversations just like this one, complaining that intel had just release the latest wizbang chip and the rest of us were waiting on big M (ironically now owned by another fierce competitor who used to also be a partner).
BTW, I see tablets as more of a threat to laptops than desktops. At some point, the only dudes left who still buy PCs will be as workstations and servers.
I#m not an expert, but I'd say way to many. And Intel is making good progress in reducing power too.
I seriously doubt Apple is going to remove Ethernet from the mini as long as Ethernet is a widely used connectivity standard. Yes, you can use the TB adapter but go read the Apple forums about how reliable it is. Server installations aren't looking for more complex solutions to do the same thing they are already doing. And if any type of installation needs rock-solid reliability, it's certainly a server farm.
I agree - plus that would needlessly take up an otherwise available thunderbolt port. Removing that port makes sense for a laptop in order to make it as slim as possible and it will be more likely to primarily use WiFi, but that is not really needed for a desktop like the Mini. Sure, Apple loves the impossibly thin devices but I hope they would choose common sense/functionality over slicing off a few fractions of an inch in this case.
This is a typical problem: someone thinking in terms of TODAY instead of 2020.
Today it isn't possible. Apple isn't even making anything like an i7. Does that mean they can't ever do so? Apple used to design its own processors for desktops and might do so again.
How can you even believe I am talking in terms of TODAY? "Tomorrow" will probably bring a cessation to Moore's law, and in the 2020s we will see a limit to processing reduction (or there will be a switch to a different method of processing). At that time, everything will collide on the market--basic tablets and laptops will be as powerful as basic desktops. Advanced desktops (nowadays called Pro) will just have more and more processors.
The A-20 might be as competent as a future-current laptop and desktop, perhaps being used in both. If Apple chooses to design in a direction which cannibalizes product lines.
[[ I wouldn't be surprised if a re-designed Mac Mini mirrored the Intel NUC ]]
There's no room at all on the back of those things for connections.
Considering that if the next Mini discards the firewire800 port for a second thunderbolt port, it's going to need:
- 2 thunderbolt ports
- 4 USB ports
- 1 HDMI port
- Audio in port, Audio out port
- Power Plug port
- Ethernet port (remember, one of the major uses of the Mini is for servers)
Reduce the size of the "box" any further, and there's simply no room for connections...
There's no room at all on the back of those things for connections.
Considering that if the next Mini discards the firewire800 port for a second thunderbolt port, it's going to need:
- 2 thunderbolt ports
- 4 USB ports
- 1 HDMI port
- Audio in port, Audio out port
- Power Plug port
- Ethernet port (remember, one of the major uses of the Mini is for servers)
Reduce the size of the "box" any further, and there's simply no room for connections...
Apple could easily have left the Mac Pro a tiny bit larger and had room to fit a couple of 2.5" hard drives; it would have still been tiny, but allowed it to provide double or triple the internal storage at a fraction of the cost of the 1tb SSD, instead they went as small as possible while providing the necessary compute performance only. It's a fantastic engineering accomplishment, but I doubt anyone would have complained if the diameter had been a centimetre or two larger, as it'd still have been tiny without sacrificing as much; in fact a couple of centimetres could have allowed for an even more powerful fan, and thus avoided the need to reduce the speed of the GPUs; so while it may not have been pure form over function, there is a definite element of it.
Again I'm not saying that they will, only that they could; it's not dropping the port exactly, as Thunderbolt can easily be used to retain connectivity, or even better connectivity (since Thunderbolt could handle 10 gigabit ethernet), indeed you can even network using Thunderbolt itself if you wanted to, though it's hardly ready for serious use.
The reason I bring it up is because you said the Mini can't lose ports, but it doesn't strictly need Ethernet as built in WiFi is often more convenient for users; I personally know tons of people using WiFi instead of wired networks, complaining about it all the time, sure, but using it nonetheless. And like I say, it's not losing Ethernet if both USB3 and Thunderbolt are fast enough for it (and have available adapters to support it). iMacs etc. have the room to spare for Ethernet, but if Apple does go smaller with the Mac Mini then it's just one of several possibilities. Again, that's assuming they even go smaller, or that they need to free up more; I already pointed out other things that can be dropped first such as FireWire (instead of replacing it) or the SD Card reader since it's extremely inconvenient where it is now anyway.
Again, I'm not saying they will, only that they could. But when it comes down to it, an Ethernet port could be swapped for Thunderbolt since it's more flexible, including the ability to connect Ethernet if you need it to. Apple have done something similar by forcing all Mac Pro storage to become external in the future, even though the choice of Thunderbolt storage is still fairly poor. There are also USB to Ethernet adapters out there as well, plus Thunderbolt is capable of 10 gigabit ethernet, which for serious server use is preferable anyway. Plus, how likely is it that the Mac Mini will still have a server-specific edition after the refresh? If Apple does swap at least one 2.5" drive in favour of offering SSD blades, then I doubt there'll be a specific model anymore, even though it should still be a decent machine for server use. Plus, size is important for such use anyway; smaller machine means greater density, so working around any changes to ports is a trade off worth making (if you even have to, we don't know yet).hudson1 said:
Like I say though, Ethernet isn't the only option to make space, and there are also ways to change the layout to take up less space. It's just a possibility, but I'm pretty sure Apple would be willing to ditch Ethernet to make room if they have to.
I agree. It's an established form-factor now. It has room for dual internal drives, it has sufficient connectivity where substituting Firewire 800 for a second Thunderbolt 2 port is all they'd need to do externally and reducing the size would make any of it's current uses impossible.
People who actually want something Apple TV size are as crazy as the people wanting it to not be Mini anymore and the same form factor as the rediculously designed Timecapsule.
Everybody knows they could drop Ethernet just like they could drop HDDs, USB3, or Intel processors. Why write such a long post to state the obvious?
Because truly, Intel, who makes almost all of their money selling processors, is just going to stop innovating.
Apple never made any silicon before the A4. All of the PPC processors were made by IBM and/or Motorola. The 68K based macs were Motorola. The Original Apple IIe was an Intel 6502.
Yes, in the future anything can happen. Pigs might even fly, I hear.
It seems strange that Intel is as quite as Apple when it comes to the Broadwell chip.
Could be 14 nano technology is showing them no love.
Could be 14 nano technology is showing them no love.
Mini form
I'd be against the mini going "vertical", I like it low and flat as it sits nicely on my desk behind/under the monitor or next to / under TV when used there. It also fits very nicely into a bag for travel as I tend to move the processor unit between locations and the monitor/tv stay put.
As I've posted before I'd like it to be black like the Apple TV as it looks better with TV setup that way
I'd be against the mini going "vertical", I like it low and flat as it sits nicely on my desk behind/under the monitor or next to / under TV when used there. It also fits very nicely into a bag for travel as I tend to move the processor unit between locations and the monitor/tv stay put.
As I've posted before I'd like it to be black like the Apple TV as it looks better with TV setup that way
Because everyone seems to instantly gets their pants in a twist the moment any suggests Ethernet could be removed from the Mac Mini, even though there are plenty of good reasons why, unlike removal of HDDs, USB3 and Intel processors.
I didn't even say it had to be removed at any point, I just said I expect the Mac Mini to become smaller, someone complained it can't lose anymore ports, and I pointed out various things that can be removed and Ethernet is just one of them, and I elaborated as to why since so many people responded to the effect of "they'll remove Ethernet over my cold dead body".
[[ I pointed out various things that can be removed and Ethernet is just one of them ]]
One of the Mini's main roles is as a "server". Not only at the personal level, but for service at the commercial and enterprise levels, as well.
What good is a server, without an ethernet port?
One of the Mini's main roles is as a "server". Not only at the personal level, but for service at the commercial and enterprise levels, as well.
What good is a server, without an ethernet port?
That's because most people are wise enough to understand that you can't use a computer in a server farm without ethernet. Yes, you can use an adapter for home or office use to obtain an ethernet connection but it's never going to be accepted for heavy commercial server usage. Remove that port and you've killed an important market segment for the mini. It's no wonder many people consider it to be a bad idea.
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Agreed. The mini, like virtually every other Apple computer, needs more connectivity, not less. I'm one of those sitting on the fence waiting for something to happen.
A more useful mini would be essential the same as the current one with a few changes;
Current hardware of course. Haswell, NVIDIA up to 1GB.
Keep the current two HDD configuration. SATA3 is not as fast as PCIe but is way more upgradable and cost-effect which is what a mini is all about.
Move the SD card slot to the front where it belongs and add at least two more USB ports on the back. Four USB ports is just a bad joke. Even cheapie PCs have more. Apple keyboard, real mouse, iPhone, printer = Full.
Keep the FW800 port. A lot of mini users have FW devices. Again, that is what a mini is all about.
Two TB ports please along with HDMI.
A mini one or two cm taller to accommodate better cooling would be much appreciated. There are zero reasons for the mini to be so low. Zero.
The "aluminum time capsule" tower design would be refreshing and all, but for 1 advantage (better Wifi AC antennas placement) it has too many disadvantages (not stackable, not living room friendly, not 1U rack compatible, not hangable behind TV with those plastic cradles, etc.), breaking many long standing traditions among Mini users.
Still I wouldn't completely rule it out.
Ethernet is here to stay of course, Firewire there's no way after it didn't make it to iMacs and MPs. Hopefully there will be a firewire800 port on the upcoming Thunderbolt Retina Display. By the way the latter may be the reasoning behind skipping Haswell for the +40% GPU beefier Broadwell. After all, the Haswell 13" rMBP struggles here and there even at 2560x1600 (and more so at the scaled resolutions), the next Thunderbolt Display supposedly will be 5120x2880 or 3840x2160, maybe a Broadwell Mini could handle those resolutions better, hence skipping the Haswell update.
Still I wouldn't completely rule it out.
Ethernet is here to stay of course, Firewire there's no way after it didn't make it to iMacs and MPs. Hopefully there will be a firewire800 port on the upcoming Thunderbolt Retina Display. By the way the latter may be the reasoning behind skipping Haswell for the +40% GPU beefier Broadwell. After all, the Haswell 13" rMBP struggles here and there even at 2560x1600 (and more so at the scaled resolutions), the next Thunderbolt Display supposedly will be 5120x2880 or 3840x2160, maybe a Broadwell Mini could handle those resolutions better, hence skipping the Haswell update.
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I bought a new 13rMBP and it did struggle with the retina display when using the track pad in some apps. I bought the 2.6 with 8gb ram and the GPU was not up to the task of the display. I did return it and bought a Mini that preforms as well as the rMBP.