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1. my mbp supports SATA3 for 6 gigabit sata disks. your pro doesn't

Um sorry to tell you but there is such thing as a SATA3 card for Mac Pros. I have one in my 2006 Mac Pro with 4x OCZ Vertex 3 Max IOPS SSDs setup in a RAID 0 config and it works great. I also have a USB 3.0 card which works great as well.

Mind you the 2 cards are fairly expensive if you want to utilize their full speeds in the PCIe 1.1 slots. I had to use the HighPoint RocketU Quad to get full USB 3.0 speeds and the HighPoint RocketRAID 2721 for full SATA3 speeds but was worth it.
 
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But a mbp can get a card to do usb3...oh wait.
 
I probably would have been happy with an iMac back in 2008 when I bought my MP, but at the time Apple wasn't selling any laptops or iMacs that could support more than 4GB of RAM. So I bought a 2GB MP and immediately upgraded to 4GB. Which, due to a mistake with the vendor of the RAM, became 6GB when they sent me a "free" additional 2GB of RAM. When I called them about it, I was essentially told that this couldn't happen :) Later, I upgraded to 14GB. 8GB would have been sufficient in an iMac.

This same limit in the Airs is why my laptop is a MBP.

The only problem I've had with Lion is messed up windows filesharing. Which led me to essentially have to create new user accounts. Delete my existing accounts. Then recreate them and restore. And it still doesn't work as well as what they used before.
 
First Timeline for FB and now no Mountain Lion??????? The whole world is against us!!!!!!
 
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But a mbp can get a card to do usb3...oh wait.

But remember you only have 1x PCIe 1.1 on your expresscard slot so you can only get 2.5Gbs out of it not the full 5Gbs that USB 3.0 needs, on the Mac Pro you can compensate by using a 4x or 8x PCIe card to get more bandwith.
 
Yes I know, Mac Pros are different and live in a special universe (which is true, where else could I buy the most powerful/expensive computer that Apple makes, and almost 2 years later, the exact same 12-core is STILL the most powerful and expensive computer that Apple makes).

Time does stand still for the Mac Pro, it's still the same price too :eek:

Maybe I'm just dense, but I also don't really feel the overwhelming histrionic, near-hysterical response that a lot of people seem to be getting from Lion and Mountain Lion. I mean, it's a computer, not a religion. Things evolve and change.

I like my iPhone and iPad, if the system continues to work I really don't understand what the problem is with having iMessages and Reminders on my Mac. It seems like a neat thing. Are people who are freaking out so bad just 100 years old or something and finally got over System 9 and adjusted to OS/X, or am I missing something?

Yes there is more eye candy and spinny flying things, yes ZFS would be nice, oh say, about 3 years+ ago, instead of ... OHMYGOD, the iPad/iPhone experience on my Mac Pro!!!! But... I'm really happy with how my stock is doing, so, oh well, I'll sulk all the way to the bank, thanks APPL! Has any "pro" functionality actually gone away/been removed? (Yes I know there are some issues, they've annoyed me personally since I run multiple RAIDs on Lion, but if you're a "pro" then you should be able to skip all the pretty GUI crap and just use *nix/Mach from a shell right? It all works just fine at the foundation level, it's the eye candy and point and clicky that's still f--ked up.)

I am going to be setting up SSDs and using RAID on a MacPro 5,1. I've read some of your other threads and you seem to be using Lion successfully with no problems, but you mention several times that apps don't work or the GUI is broken. I am maybe not understanding what you are saying but could you please help me understand what you are talking about with RAID and Lion. What does it mean when you say the foundation and "*nix/Mach" is solid, but the GUI and "point and clicky" is f'd up? I don't really understand this, does RAID work correctly on Lion with SSD or not?

Is Linux/BSD, or Windows an actual tenable alternative for you? If yes, you may want to investigate and pursue switching to some other OS, because I don't see anything that changes the course Apple is on, which is good, I'm looking forward to AAPL shares @ $600+

Anyhoo, here is one -- of doubtless MANY forthcoming -- workarounds:

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/14341245/

I obviously don't mind Mountain Lion and think it looks very cool, I like Messages already. Since reading a stack of your posts when I'm searching for RAID and SSD info through the forums, I do have one question for you. You make jokes a lot and aren't always serious, but you do carefully always give two answers, as a pro user and then as a investor in Apple the company. Do the two have to be different? Would you be more angry about the direction Apple is taking if they weren't personally making you money? Is there anything Apple has done to OS/X that really messes with "pro" functionality? Because I'm not personally seeing it, just a lot of peeps getting their panties in a bunch over screen effects or reverse scrolling or whatev other nonsense bothers really old people who's brains are stuck in yesterday.
 
I am using Lion just fine on 4x SSDs in Raid 0. Not sure what they ment by the GUI or Apps not working but I seem to be fine so far *knock on wood*.

Been using it like this since Lion was released. Maybe its an Apple Soft-Raid issue, I am using a hardware Raid card so maybe that makes a difference.
 
I I do have one question for you. You make jokes a lot and aren't always serious, but you do carefully always give two answers, as a pro user and then as a investor in Apple the company. Do the two have to be different?

Yes.

Owning AAPL shares has been really nice. If Apple dumped the Mac Pro, and every Mac in their whole lineup tomorrow, to focus on iOS devices, and the new Apple Dashboard for high-end cars with integrated refrigerator control, I'd get over it (as long as my stock continued going up). A pile of cash trumps some illusory belief that a company cares about me. It doesn't. The purpose of a company is to generate revenue for its' shareholders. AAPL is golden in that regard. No, wait, sorry, I meant, "Don't be Evil!" love all humanity, and help people!

I do wish they'd update the Mac Pros more often, but I am relatively sure that it will stay where it's at, on life support, for at least one more revision. From the investor perspective, I do understand. "For every 10 Mac Pros, we sell a million iOS devices!" Which is gonna get priority? Duh.

Is there anything Apple has done to OS/X that really messes with "pro" functionality? Because I'm not personally seeing it, just a lot of peeps getting their panties in a bunch over screen effects or reverse scrolling or whatev other nonsense bothers really old people who's brains are stuck in yesterday.

I really don't mind special effects, or ripping the cooler features of iOS and wedging 'em into OS/X. I like eye candy, it doesn't disturb me, for people who are truly upset about it, there are always checkboxes or apps like TinkerTool, Onyx, MacPilot, etc, etc, etc, to toggle the terminal commands for you in a GUI, and turn most of it off.

I dunno, people complain about things for different reasons. There is the whole, "My computer is so slow, everything crashes, and the new animations make my system move like it's going through quicksand!" crowd. Who seem to be experiencing genuine issues. I can't comment, since I have never experienced any of this. Everything for me was pretty much instant on Snow Leopard, it's equally instant on Lion. I experience no lag or slowdowns. For them I'd posit it's either time to buy a new computer, do a clean install of Lion so you clean out 10 years of cruft that Migration Assistant keeps wedging back into your new system, or just stay on Snow Leopard forever if that's what you feel is the penultimate azimuth of OS/X development.

I strongly suspect that the pending release of Mountain Lion is making the, "I am NOT leaving the island of Snow Leopard, EVER! It's a PERFECT SPECIAL PLACE!" crew more upset, because they thought they'd have another 2 years of security updates at least; but SL will get dropped completely the minute Mountain Lion is released, so, there went that plan. You are now on a totally unsupported OS which will never get any updates.

The ****** with reverse scroll bars, or how the UI looks is making me feel sad and empty inside crowd... I've got no answer for. While Lloyd Chambers is probably no more than 10 years older than I am, and his blog http://www.macperformanceguide.com has a LOT of really good info about optimizing Mac Pros ... having said that, I do often get the impression that he's like a 110 year old cranky old man. FWIW I don't understand the constant bitching and whining about what to me is total nonsense, either. Just... try to get over it, and go find some real problems.

'Course, I don't use Final Cut Pro for a living. If I did, then man would I be pissed. I also don't need to look into a crystal ball and try to figure out if my department/company of 150 people can look 2-5 years into the future and figure out whether or not depending on Pro Apps that Apple will decide to kick to the curb next week, is a good idea.

The things that bother me are fundamental, basic problems with the OS, which are unresolved and go ignored, year after year, while an insane amount of effort is focused on the GUI crap.

Here's a short list, at the very top is - Apple desperately needs a real filesystem which is not held together with superglue, duct-tape and an endless collection of hacks. If not ZFS, then something else:

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=11276523#post11276523

What actually bothers me is the overall direction of Everything in the Cloud! and We Know What's Best For You! I don't want my AddressBook (soon to be Contacts), in Apple's cloud. On Lion I sync my stuff from iTunes to my iDevices, will that even be an option in Mountain Lion, or is it Everything In The Cloud, We Have Simplified by Removing Choice!

I'd like an option to create my own local cloud for my own devices. Call me paranoid, but I have a basic lack of trust with regards to any company protecting my private information. With a few exceptions, my private information isn't anybody else's business.

And my response to the protecting you from yourself/we know what's best for you, school of thought, amounts to: **** you. It's going to be a very sad day when I have to jailbreak my own computer. But when that day comes... I'll be pissed about it, but then I'll just jailbreak it and get on with my life. We already run Linux and OpenBSD on our servers, and before migrating to those we used Solaris and SunOS not OS/X. Half the apps I use on a daily basis, don't exist under Linux, and Windoze always seems like way more pain than it's worth. We life in an imperfect world. Oh well.

I am going to be setting up SSDs and using RAID on a MacPro 5,1. I've read some of your other threads and you seem to be using Lion successfully with no problems, but you mention several times that apps don't work or the GUI is broken. I am maybe not understanding what you are saying but could you please help me understand what you are talking about with RAID and Lion. What does it mean when you say the foundation and "*nix/Mach" is solid, but the GUI and "point and clicky" is f'd up? I don't really understand this, does RAID work correctly on Lion with SSD or not?

RAID and RAID on SSDs works fine in Lion. There were some initial issues with doing an INSTALL to RAID0 on 10.7.0, which seem to have been resolved. RAID cards also work fine, but that's really up to the individual manufacturers updating their drivers. What's STILL broken in 10.7.3 is Disk Utility.app.

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=14229937#post14229937
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=13762878#post13762878

As of 10.7.2 it started displaying RAID volumes correctly (instead of showing a huge collection of physical disks, instead of the RAID), but it won't actually DO *anything* with the RAID its' made. Try to hit the [Verify] button. It just ... does absolutely nothing. No action is taken.

Disk Utility.app is just a graphical front-end to diskutil in shell. diskutil works just fine, and has done so since the earliest Lion betas.

What's slightly disturbing is that apparently nobody at Apple can be bothered to fix the stupid GUI for Disk Utility.app, which doesn't work with the built-in RAID functionality that Apple itself ships. I have filed bug reports, I know at least half a dozen people who have done same, but apparently Apple just doesn't give a ******. At this rate Disk Utility.app will remain broken when Mountain Lion is released.

FOCUSING *only* on eye candy and iEVERYTHING, to the EXCLUSION of fixing fundamental issues with the foundation/OS that all of this stuff revolved around/is built on... I'd rate that as a problem.
 
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Did you expect your machine to be a God forever?

yes. :D

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Now on the other hand for those that have installed 10.8, using this work around method, have you noticed any issues?

I've noticed my screen savers have been locking up, and noticed my iStat Pro widget doesn't work anymore. Other than that I haven't noticed anything else.
 
What about installing 10.8 on a MacPro1,1 in target disk mode via firewire from a supported machine, then editing com.apple.Boot.plist to force 32bit kernel mode? Wouldn't that work?
 
I went about installing 10.8 a bit different but worked fine for me. I had no idea that it wasn't even supported on my Mac Pro. I allways download new stuff from Apple Dev and install in a virtual machine under VMWare before installing on live so I went ahead and installed 10.8 into a new VM like 2 hours after it was available for download. Everything worked fine but was slugish so i CCCd it to a usb drive then booted off that drive just fine. Onve I verified it worked I CCCd it to an internal drive and it was also fine. Next day I woke to see all these people saying it wasn't supported on the Mac Pro 1,1 and was baffled. I guess VMWare bypassed the installer checks? Well at least it worked :D
 
The Mac Pro 1,1 currently wins as the best computer investment I've ever made. I bought it when it was brand new, back in 2006, and am still using it today. Granted I've upgraded the video card and added more memory, but other than that it's the same machine. It still feels very fast for most tasks.

I suppose I will have to let go eventually, but would really like to see some new Mac Pros from Apple before ML comes out.

I don't think I've ever owned a computer for this long without it having felt "slow" by now. It's amazing.
 
I don't think I've ever owned a computer for this long without it having felt "slow" by now. It's amazing.

I know what you mean. If I didn't just get a RED and needed the extra horsepower I'd probably be fine with it for the next couple years at least, easily.
 
One time I dual booted some Linux distro on my Mac and it came up with 3 options on boot

1) Linux
2) Mac OS X 32 bit
3) Mac OS X 64 bit

I chose the 64 and yes it indeed did boot with a 64 bit kernel (this was on my MacBook with EFI32)

Some things never worked such as wifi and I think display was stuck at 1024x768. Somehow I couldn't get a screenshot of it either so I had to use my iPhone
 
to put this into perspective my sister will be 18 and in college when ML comes out.. she was twelve when your machine was made... stop crying.. would you like it if Apple deciden not to put certain features into the new OS and screw the people who bought a computer in the last 4-5 years so some guy with a computer over half a decade old can use the os?
 
to put this into perspective my sister will be 18 and in college when ML comes out.. she was twelve when your machine was made... stop crying.. would you like it if Apple deciden not to put certain features into the new OS and screw the people who bought a computer in the last 4-5 years so some guy with a computer over half a decade old can use the os?

I take it your Mac is supported then :confused:
 
I do not have a Mac Pro. However, I have several Mac Mini's from 2006 and 2007 (that aren't listed in my signature). None will be officially supported by Mountain Lion. Heck my 2006's weren't officially supported, but I got around it by upgrading the processor and removing the .plist file.

Anyway, while I am bummed they won't see Mountain Lion, but they have had a heck of a good run and are still exteremely good at basic tasks even today and will still continue so running Lion.

What I find funny has how many "professionals" keep stating that Lion and Mountain Lion aren't "professional" grade OS's, but then you see whole threads about how a 2006 Mac Pro (built for professionals) can't run Mountain Lion and how upset people are. So is Mountain Lion a professional grade OS? if not, then why would anyone care? Just some food for thought....
 
What I find funny has how many "professionals" keep stating that Lion and Mountain Lion aren't "professional" grade OS's, but then you see whole threads about how a 2006 Mac Pro (built for professionals) can't run Mountain Lion and how upset people are. So is Mountain Lion a professional grade OS? if not, then why would anyone care? Just some food for thought....

So true. Not sure why "pro's" need the latest and greatest. Pro's to me are a subset that work in a select medium that need stability. When you find it you stay put until everything on a new OS/ System can be validated and supported and verified. The Mac is a tool, that's it. These "pro's" wanting the latest and greatest are more like "super fans". They are all huddled together wishing everything Apple does is rock solid and it ain't. Then they get all confused when their special software stops working but hey more eye candy! Requiring faster systems and more SW updates. Every "pro" I know is still on 10.6.8 and have no plans on moving forward until a new HW purchases is needed. I have a few tester users on 10.7, I should qualify. But they are the more competent users with more of a development background.
 
I am using Lion just fine on 4x SSDs in Raid 0. Not sure what they ment by the GUI or Apps not working but I seem to be fine so far *knock on wood*.

Been using it like this since Lion was released. Maybe its an Apple Soft-Raid issue, I am using a hardware Raid card so maybe that makes a difference.

10.7.0 did not display raid volumes correctly in disk utility. It was allegedly fixed in 10.7.2 or 10.7.3. I don't know as I put SL back on my Pro after futzing with Lion.

And I'm not sure if filevault works on raid volumes in Lion yet or not (It didn't at release).
 
So true. Not sure why "pro's" need the latest and greatest. Pro's to me are a subset that work in a select medium that need stability. When you find it you stay put until everything on a new OS/ System can be validated and supported and verified. The Mac is a tool, that's it. These "pro's" wanting the latest and greatest are more like "super fans". They are all huddled together wishing everything Apple does is rock solid and it ain't. Then they get all confused when their special software stops working but hey more eye candy! Requiring faster systems and more SW updates. Every "pro" I know is still on 10.6.8 and have no plans on moving forward until a new HW purchases is needed. I have a few tester users on 10.7, I should qualify. But they are the more competent users with more of a development background.

They don't. However I think they're (and mine really) concern is more of the fact that Lion and ML are more "eye candy" releases with less and less "substance". Alot of "Pro's" are starting to feel left out in the cold by Apple. Then again Apple's target is the average consumer, not the "Pro's". I tried Lion on my MP, but went back to SL after 2 days. (Lion is on my MBA though)

As for the Mac 1,1 being screwed, it's 5-6 years old computers generally won't run anything new at that age (except linux...sometimes lol).
 
They don't. However I think they're (and mine really) concern is more of the fact that Lion and ML are more "eye candy" releases with less and less "substance". Alot of "Pro's" are starting to feel left out in the cold by Apple. Then again Apple's target is the average consumer, not the "Pro's". I tried Lion on my MP, but went back to SL after 2 days. (Lion is on my MBA though)

This is nothing compared to the pissed G5 owners when Intel Macs were released.

I don't know where it got started, but somehow a lot of them got convinced Apple was going to support the PowerPC long term, and possibly even keep making PowerPC Macs.

But exact same complaints. Pros bought big expensive machines that were "just as fast" as new computers, and yet unsupported. Blah blah blah blah.

Honestly, considering how many pros still prefer Snow Leopard, I don't get why this is a deal. Mountain Lion contains some cool new Pro developer tools, but it's going to be another year or two after release until software using those starts to show.
 
The Mac Pro 1,1 currently wins as the best computer investment I've ever made. I bought it when it was brand new, back in 2006, and am still using it today. Granted I've upgraded the video card and added more memory, but other than that it's the same machine. It still feels very fast for most tasks.

I suppose I will have to let go eventually, but would really like to see some new Mac Pros from Apple before ML comes out.

I don't think I've ever owned a computer for this long without it having felt "slow" by now. It's amazing.

Same here. :D
 
Obsessive compulsive warning !!! This thread should be dead !!!

MAC PRO 1,1 CAN RUN THE CURRENT 10.8 VERY EASILY !!!!

THERE IS NO NEED FOR THIS RANT !!!!


Why are we still arguing general computer upgrade logic here?

It has become a "Postulation on the theory and execution of computer upgrades on a free society" debate on ....what....???????

The OP was worried that 10.8 wouldn't work on a 1,1.

IT WORKS JUST FINE IN ITS CURRENT FORM ON A 1,1 !!!!!


2 simple , TINY edits on a plist file and it works just fine.

MAC PRO 1,1 AND 2,1 CAN RUN CURRENT 10.8 JUST FINE AS LONG AS THEY ARE USING A GPU FROM 2008 OR NEWER !!!!!

Yet everyone continues arguing all this DRECK as if they have nothing better to do.

More than likely, Apple have decided to stop writing 64 bit drivers for X1900 and 7300GT so all of the 1,1 and 2,1 machines running those cards would have a "bad experience" running 10.8. (pretty sure G70 stopped getting 64bit drivers in 10.6.3 or thereabouts)

So they put a simple, EASILY WORKED AROUND stop to the install.

Put a newer card in and fix those 2 text fields and you are golden.

The REAL question is ....WHY IS THERE STILL A 32 BIT KERNEL ??? (answer to this might help answer next one)

MAC PRO 1,1 AND 2,1 CAN RUN CURRENT 10.8 JUST FINE AS LONG AS THEY ARE USING A GPU FROM 2008 OR NEWER !!!!!

And the BIGGEST question, WILL THERE CONTINUE TO BE IN FUTURE VERSIONS ???

The question that 6 pages of NONSENSE has been written about is answered, the 1,1 CURRENTLY AREN'T "SCREWED" !!!!

Why has the debate continued despite the question being answered?

I just listed what the real questions are.

Please people, get a grip and think here.

MAC PRO 1,1 AND 2,1 CAN RUN CURRENT 10.8 JUST FINE AS LONG AS THEY ARE USING A GPU FROM 2008 OR NEWER !!!!!
 
Well, I have here one nice Mac Pro (2,1) with 8-core 3.0GHz 16 GB RAM, SSD and 5870 and the machine is faster than any consumer Mac today. So, yes, I would be very-very annoyed that it can't use the latest OS just because "it's old you know" and we are aware that it's not technical but more of a marketing and support issue. I am sure that there would be a way to bypass that limitation, but what troubles me is the way Apple is dealing with this because our machine was sold as "64-bit workstation" and "the most upgradable Mac ever" for "years to come". The performance of those machines are superb even today and it's not fair to leave them behind.

In PowerFractal raw CPU power bench it's like this:

Mac Pro 12-core Westmere 2.93GHz • 156.2
Mac Pro 8-core Westmere 2.4GHz • 90.8
Mac Pro 8-core Nehalem 2.26GHz • 87
Mac Pro 8-core Clovertown 3.0GHz • 84.3
Mac Pro 8-core Harpertown 3.2GHz • 81
Mac Pro 8-core Harpertown 2.8GHz • 77
iMac 27” i7 quad-core 3.4GHz • 68.7
Mac Pro quad-core Nehalem 3.2GHz • 61.6
MacBook Pro 15” i7 quad-core 2.2GHz • 57.3
MacBook Pro 17” i7 quad-core 2.2GHz • 57.1
iMac 27” i7 quad-core 2.93GHz • 55.2
iMac 27” i7 quad-core 2.8GHz • 53
Mac Pro quad-core Nehalem 2.66GHz • 51.6
Mac Pro 8-core 1.86GHz (custom built) • 51
MacBook Pro 15” i7 quad-core 2.0GHz • 45.5
iMac 27” i5 quad-core 2.8GHz • 44
Mac Pro quad-core Woodcrest 3.0GHz • 42.2
iMac 27” i5 quad-core 2.66GHz • 42
iMac 21.5” i5 quad-core 2.5GHz • 40

P.S.
Yes, I am aware of anomaly - Mac Pro 8-core Harpertown 3.2GHz is slower than older 3.0 Clovertown in this test, but that's what PowerFractal shows, I have done testing a dozen of times in the same conditions.
 
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