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Mac Pro 1,1s are officially screwed
- Thread starter macpro2000
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Frustrated to have another thread where the first 3 pages freak me out with misrepresentations and then I read the article and it's not a big deal.
Bottom line: If you have a 1,1 MP and a video card that's younger than 4 years old, there will almost certainly be a way to run MountainLion without issues--installing it may be not be totally straightforward though.
Because there is no 64 bit EFI, for Mac Pro 1,1 / 2,1, to flash with.
Yes you can use Chameleon bootloader to boot 64-bit kernel on Mac Pro 1,1. Pair it up with a Mountain Lion installer modification to remove the check, and im 95% sure you will be able to run it on a Mac Pro 1,1 / 2,1.
Slughead: the graphic cards drivers are probably untouched. why? because apple has claimed the 7300 / x1900 to be compatible for all Mac Pro's, and there are probably some users with 2008 and newer MP that has bought those cards 2nd hand (apple actually sold x1900 when 2008 was released too). And Apple probably don't want to break their experience.
Transmission with peer blocking list AND PeerGuardian at the same time? They use the same blacklist, so you will not be any more hidden with your TV series downloading habits if you used both. BTW you just posted it on a forum, so you owned yourself, actually
I'm aware, usually have PG off must of left it on by accident , i really got owned , lol ......
I have no serious intention to "upgrade" to Lion let alone Mountain Moggy as such move will kill half my software library due to no Rosetta support.
My Octo 2008 MP may be compatible but it is staying Snow Leopard for the foreseeable.
It ain't broken so I ain't fixing it and why should you?
Sadly eventually it will end up like PowerPC Macs with no new software and stuck on all the old versions that the online apps may stop working due to sever side changes. When i used PPC Macs I kept upgrading every year or 2 but when I got Mac Pro 1,1 I found I didn't need anything faster for what I do but I'd love to keep using the latest OS. I sold a DP Powermac G5 to buy my Mac Pro but now its £2000 for a Mac Pro base model and when I got mine it was £1799 but I got it at £1599 as a student. People can't just magic out £2000
I was expecting to get another year at least out of my Mac Pro having the latest OS.. but this 10.8 has came really early.. only 6 months after 10.7 release. If I get 10.8 running on this I'd be happy and I would be able to save in time for 10.9
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2006-7 was a long time ago in Apple's marketing mind.
Apple fully expect to make anything more than 3 years old as obsolete as possible by changing configurations, dropping parts from their supply chain and upgrading the OS as they see fit. If you have a Mac Pro 1,1 from 2006-7 you are already 3 years up on the refresh cycle Apple seem to expect.
I switched from iMac use to Mac Pro so I could avoid 3 yearly refresh costs, now I see no reason to upgrade my OS if the benefits are outweighed by the losses.
The more OS X becomes iOS the less I want to refresh. The money can stay in the bank till my Octo '08 dies or the next great leap forward makes it worth my while. Not holding my breath mind.
Apple fully expect to make anything more than 3 years old as obsolete as possible by changing configurations, dropping parts from their supply chain and upgrading the OS as they see fit. If you have a Mac Pro 1,1 from 2006-7 you are already 3 years up on the refresh cycle Apple seem to expect.
I switched from iMac use to Mac Pro so I could avoid 3 yearly refresh costs, now I see no reason to upgrade my OS if the benefits are outweighed by the losses.
The more OS X becomes iOS the less I want to refresh. The money can stay in the bank till my Octo '08 dies or the next great leap forward makes it worth my while. Not holding my breath mind.
Apple fully expect to make anything more than 3 years old as obsolete as possible by changing configurations, dropping parts from their supply chain and upgrading the OS as they see fit. If you have a Mac Pro 1,1 from 2006-7 you are already 3 years up on the refresh cycle Apple seem to expect.
I switched from iMac use to Mac Pro so I could avoid 3 yearly refresh costs, now I see no reason to upgrade my OS if the benefits are outweighed by the losses.
The more OS X becomes iOS the less I want to refresh. The money can stay in the bank till my Octo '08 dies or the next great leap forward makes it worth my while. Not holding my breath mind.
Some guy managed to get 10.7 to boot on the 1,1 Mac Pro as if it had EFI64 (using the bios emulation to emulate EFI64) and it worked! So 10.8 should be available unofficially on 1,1s
On the other scene.. Windows 8 will run fine.. just the thing is I don't want windows lol thats the reason I have a Mac!
My C2D Black MacBook is also out of the run with 10.7 being its last OS
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I do come from a Windows background..
The way it works for windows is you keep upgrading to the new version (no matter how long it takes) until your hardware is slow enough to require new hardware.
I got my first Mac in 2004... yes 8 years Mac using and have never looked back.. but since Apple started using Intel I thought they would go along the same way... but they use software blocks now to prevent running the latest!
I have to say I'm not really surprised but I cannot afford £2000/$3100 for a new Mac Pro
I remember a time when that wasn't true at all, kinda sad how that time wasn't all that long ago in some cases.
My Performa 6400 went from 7.5 to 9.1 although that probably wasn't the smartest idea and my old reliable Sawtooth G4 from 1999 went from 8.6 to 10.4.11. Thats 8 years on the same hardware and if I had stuck with the CPU upgrade I'd be rocking close to a decade on the latest greatest Mac OS.
A 2010 Pro will most likely be "obsolete" by 2015 because of some trivial Apple thing.
I have a first gen Titanum PowerBook.. It ran 9 up to 10.4 but it can boot 10,5 but graphics are laggy.. see there was a reason that Mac never got official 10.5...
That is what I miss from the new Apple... That TiBook never got 10.5 because it couldn't run it good enough for a decent experience!
Nowadays Apple just seem to obsolete your Mac so you buy a new one.. Sucks for me as I am a total fanboy with the Mac + iPhone + iPad
10.7 or Lion will run just fine on every Mac Pro (intel) model without any modification as neither a 64bit kernel or EFI 64 is forcibly required. If ML requires a 64bit kernel only then there are likely ways around that, as have been discussed, however if EFI 64 is required, then certain machines such as MP 1,1 and 2,1 will be left out and unable to install ML.
No Reason....
1. It way faster than some supported Mac. (1.4GHz C2D MBA) plus some latest macs.
2. If GPU is the problem, Mac Pro user can easily replace it.
3. 64bit compatibility is based on processor. not boot loader. As you can see MP 1,1 can boot 64Bit Kernel just use some trick.
I see no reason for AAPL to drop it.
1. It way faster than some supported Mac. (1.4GHz C2D MBA) plus some latest macs.
2. If GPU is the problem, Mac Pro user can easily replace it.
3. 64bit compatibility is based on processor. not boot loader. As you can see MP 1,1 can boot 64Bit Kernel just use some trick.
I see no reason for AAPL to drop it.
It's not. It's entirely the 64 bit kernel/driver stack.
More specifically, it's probably Apple not wanting to do the 32 bit drivers.
I think that isn't problem when we can booting 64bit kernel / driver stack on Mac Pro 1,1 with some trick. (chameleon)
Sure it is. If you use Chameleon, you should be able to get Mountain Lion working. Because then you're booting with the 64 bit kernel/driver stack.
Bottom line: If you have 1,1 Mac Pro. You can run Mountain Lion whatever apple support or not.
Right.
Internally, Apple's policy is they are only obligated to support any machine that could still be under AppleCare. That is usually three years, four years in some cases because they are known to offer four year warranties to some special customers. Once you're past 3-4 years, Apple considers any OS update they give you to be a bonus.
This is not something new that Steve Jobs came up with to screw people out of their money, this is something that Apple has always done. You can go back to System 8, System 8.5... same thing. 3-4 years, anything older gets cut.
Bottom line: Don't buy a Mac, any Mac, and assume you will get OS updates for more than 3-4 years.
Technology may move on, but the hardware track is moving much faster than the software track. Software is always years behind hardware advances. We had the capability for preemptive multitasking in the 386 chip, but unless you were running OS/2, you didn't see software take advantage of it until Win 2000 was around & Apple with OSX. I was around for the 16 to 32 bit conversion - It took years. We are going through the exact same process with the exact same issues going from 32 bit to 64 bit.
No SATA3, so far, no problem, I do have dual SATA2 SSDs in a raid. For about the same price I could have gotten SATA3 ssds, (and I considered it for moving to my next Mac Pro) but they seem to have more reliability issues than the SATA2 ssds.
Thunderbolt - So far, meh - It appears to be a solution in search of a problem. I haven't seen a need for $900 enclosures. I have 6 hard drives internally, so no need for thunderbolt. If I had an iMac, it would be a completely different story.
Have I fit more ram? Yep - 22gb. Going over 16gb made a real difference.
Replaced video card? Yep, the 5770 works for my purposes (gaming isn't that important for me).
There appears to be a way around the EFI limitation already (chameleon), I simply would prefer an Apple version.
For me, the key is software. If the software can't take advantage of the hardware, then there is no need to upgrade. As it currently stands, perhaps I'll need to look at upgrading in a couple of years.
I have always viewed buying hardware that the software can't take advantage of to be silly. The computer waits on my input faster.
Finally, there is the little matter of cost. My next Mac Pro is going to run in the 5K range - the base models aren't worth buying in my opinion.
With the direction that Apple is taking, I am also looking at whether or not to stay on the Apple platform. A number of companies seem hell-bent on forcing their customers to look at all of their options, not just Apple.
Maybe you can't. No one has tried yet. Who knows, maybe Apple didn't include some crucial Mac Pro drivers (logical board, sound, ethernet, fans...) in Mountain Lion.
Oh damm!!Maybe you can't. No one has tried yet. Who knows, maybe Apple didn't include some crucial Mac Pro drivers (logical board, sound, ethernet, fans...) in Mountain Lion.
Hi,
I am still using the ATI X1909XT that came with my Mac Pro (you just knew there'd be someone didn't you? lol)
Anyway, that's not my point so much as to say that I too was initially pissed off at Apple dropping support for my MP 1,1 and I almost immediately discussed the possibility of a new Mac with my fiancé (ie I tried to get permission lol). After some discussion, mainly about the practicalities of moving from a MP with over 10TB of storage to a Mac Mini Server (the MP is nowadays used mainly as a server, Lion Server seems pretty cool atm) I decided to stick with my MP.
Here's the reasons why.
1) For the past year, the Mac Pro has seen use primarily as a server for serving up our iTunes library, Plex library etc. Although it is connected to our 46inch TV, so is the AppleTV which is our preferred method of watching our movie collection. I have also recently installed Lion Server and (finally) managed to get open directory working, I think this is gonna rock when we get our own place, and Lion Server is more than adequate for this.
2) I now at long last, have my own Apple laptop. A 13inch MacBook Air. It's lovely, and is my preferred Mac of choice for just about everything now. I plan to replace this every two years and, with the advent of Thunderbolt and the 27inch Thunderbolt display, coupled with the inevitable increase in performance over the years will also be my desktop Mac of choice once we have our own house. This further relegates the MP to "server duties" only.
(Hmmm it also means I have little use for the 30inch ACD sitting in its box unused at the moment, offers anyone?
)3) I currently have permission from my fiancé to buy an iPad 3 once they're announced. Partly because I've said numerous times that I want an iPad with a retina display (she got the hint. Yay!! lol) but mostly I reckon because she wants my gen 1 iPad so she can read her books on the Kindle app whilst in bed, in the dark, without needing a light.
I'm rambling, sorry. My point with number 3 is that our funds are finite and if I buy a Mac Mini Server then I wave bye bye to the iPad 3.
4) I've had excellent value for money from my Mac Pro and I reckon it's actually not too unreasonable for Apple to drop support. We have to remember sometimes that if Apple wasn't brave enough to "cut the cord" when it deems necessary then we maybe would never have had OS X in the first place! Or Intel Macs for that matter.
So then, my current plan is to stick with Lion Server on the Mac Pro, whilst running the latest and greatest on my MacBook Air, and purchase the iPad 3, and (cheekily) throw one of the new AppleTV's on the order while I'm at it, if they release one.
If I'm going to be ordering from Apple anyway, now might be the time for a new graphics card for the Mac Pro (or is it worth upgrading the gfx card at all in a server?) as well.
I've read earlier in the thread that going above 16GB of RAM really helps the Mac Pro, am I right in thinking that it will be a sensible upgrade for a server as well? If so does anyone know the best place to buy it in the UK? I currently have 9GB.
Recommendations for an affordable eSATA enclosure would also be welcomed as I'm fed up of seeing all the external USB and FireWire drives cluttering up the desk!
My apologies for the long post
Given the problems that I have had with Lion thusfar at each update on Mac Pro 2.1's, a 4.1 and a 5.1 (and many other Mac Pro owners have posted about in this forum), I must asked how can one's early Intel Mac Pro system be screwed because the owner is being denied the opportunity to waste his hard and harder to earn cash on an OS that gets crappier and more i[h]OSed in each incarnation? To me, early Intel Mac Pro system owners are being officially spared future screwings. Owners of newer systems are freely allowed to purchase future screwings for $30 this summer. Seems like Apple's doing us a favor. I'd change the title of this thread to "The screwing of Mac Pro 1.1 and 2.2 owners officially will come to an end this summer." They can revert to SL 10.6.7 to end earlier screwings because their Pro systems weren't made to be fast, expandable iPads/iPods/iPhones, nor would a real pro want them to be. I'm not in favoring of dumbing down my Pro.
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