Mac Pro 2011 "Sandy Bridge E" everything we know

[Eidorian]

I'm talking about business/professional users that earn a living with their machines, not enthusiasts/hobbyists.

In such cases, any value "lost" from buying current technology now when new systems are less than a year away (lets say a Quarter), is more than made up for vs. lost income (either don't have a machine, or the one they're using can't keep up with their workload = lost income due to turning away clients, or worse, losing them due to failure to meet deadlines).

In such cases, it's in that user's best interest to buy now rather than waiting for the next machine to appear.

It surprises me how workloads are always increasing.

 

[nanofrog]

It surprises me how workloads are always increasing.

Seriously though, between the recent trend of more work (or same work) piled on fewer employees, the result = workload per person increases.

Another potential aspect is the increasing complexity of jobs (i.e. I look at web pages for example, and they seem to be getting more complex, such as more and more elaborate Flash content).

 

[edenorchestra]

Good discussion,
I am in the market at the moment. One issue being a sole proprietorship, is that my tax time ends on 12-31-11. I need to make a purchase in 2011. I have an iMac, and a MBP. My audio studio is using an XP box with an early Core2Duo quad. Its days are numbered (about 6yrs. old). Even my Intel mobo has no native drivers, but the main issue is now my sound interface. I use 32 channels of ADAT on fiber that interfaces to my main audio control surface/mixer. A MP is the only solution for me. My cards are PCIe, Firewire bogs down and there are no real solutions using an iMac. TB (Thunderbolt) is promising, but maybe a long way off for using an iMac, storage would be cool on the Pegasus, but it too is very new. There are really no PCIe cages to speak of yet, although on the horizon. The other issue with TB is that any cards in a PCIe cage have to have TB "aware" drivers; brick wall for me. I use Steinberg Nuendo for digital audio, most of the MB users recommend the 3.33GHz SP-Hex. CPU speed is the biggy. It will be a huge leap in comparison to what I now use. That coupled with two Cinema displays will give me more real estate than my (3) 22" Samsungs.

So maybe it sometimes just comes down to biting the bullet and giving up on the "I'll wait for the new one", there's ALWAYS a new one. I thought maybe today there would be something announced at the iPhone 4S announcement . . pipe dream stuff.

 

[nanofrog]

Good discussion,
I am in the market at the moment. One issue being a sole proprietorship, is that my tax time ends on 12-31-11. I need to make a purchase in 2011. I have an iMac, and a MBP. My audio studio is using an XP box with an early Core2Duo quad. Its days are numbered (about 6yrs. old). Even my Intel mobo has no native drivers, but the main issue is now my sound interface. I use 32 channels of ADAT on fiber that interfaces to my main audio control surface/mixer. A MP is the only solution for me. My cards are PCIe, Firewire bogs down and there are no real solutions using an iMac. TB (Thunderbolt) is promising, but maybe a long way off for using an iMac, storage would be cool on the Pegasus, but it too is very new. There are really no PCIe cages to speak of yet, although on the horizon. The other issue with TB is that any cards in a PCIe cage have to have TB "aware" drivers; brick wall for me. I use Steinberg Nuendo for digital audio, most of the MB users recommend the 3.33GHz SP-Hex. CPU speed is the biggy. It will be a huge leap in comparison to what I now use. That coupled with two Cinema displays will give me more real estate than my (3) 22" Samsungs.

So maybe it sometimes just comes down to biting the bullet and giving up on the "I'll wait for the new one", there's ALWAYS a new one. I thought maybe today there would be something announced at the iPhone 4S announcement . . pipe dream stuff.

Given the available information, the consumer versions of LGA2011 Sandy Bridge isn't due until mid November (doesn't explicitly include Xeons either, but most are hoping they'll release simultaneously). It also takes some time between when vendors receive the CPU's to the time they're able to ship systems (typically ~13 weeks = 1Q for final testing and manufacturing enough units for the first shipments).

Which will put the new models past Dec. 31, 2011 (possible they could get CPU's early, but it doesn't look like it; has to do with there's still errata on the current stepping for VT-d <critical for servers>, and Apple hasn't gotten chips early since the 2009 model).

So if you need a system now, then go ahead and make the purchase. If you can wait, then it's up to you (could see if the next machine offers a better cost/performance ratio, and if not, you could get an existing model a bit cheaper as any remaining stock of the current models will be discounted through the Refurbished store, or from 3rd party vendors).

Hope this helps.

 

[Kimmo]

Good discussion,
I am in the market at the moment. One issue being a sole proprietorship, is that my tax time ends on 12-31-11. I need to make a purchase in 2011. I have an iMac, and a MBP. My audio studio is using an XP box with an early Core2Duo quad. Its days are numbered (about 6yrs. old). Even my Intel mobo has no native drivers, but the main issue is now my sound interface. I use 32 channels of ADAT on fiber that interfaces to my main audio control surface/mixer. A MP is the only solution for me. My cards are PCIe, Firewire bogs down and there are no real solutions using an iMac. TB (Thunderbolt) is promising, but maybe a long way off for using an iMac, storage would be cool on the Pegasus, but it too is very new. There are really no PCIe cages to speak of yet, although on the horizon. The other issue with TB is that any cards in a PCIe cage have to have TB "aware" drivers; brick wall for me. I use Steinberg Nuendo for digital audio, most of the MB users recommend the 3.33GHz SP-Hex. CPU speed is the biggy. It will be a huge leap in comparison to what I now use. That coupled with two Cinema displays will give me more real estate than my (3) 22" Samsungs.

So maybe it sometimes just comes down to biting the bullet and giving up on the "I'll wait for the new one", there's ALWAYS a new one. I thought maybe today there would be something announced at the iPhone 4S announcement . . pipe dream stuff.

I was in the same boat, but after waiting "patiently" for the MP upgrade I bit the bullet last week on a 2010 3.33 hex core.

While some might label the purchase foolish, the person spending the money (me) reached a different conclusion. The hex is a very powerful and highly respected machine that was available for purchase when I needed it, now.

I hedged my purchase by buying a refurbished unit from the Apple store. The machine is pristine, and came with twice the advertised memory and a Radeon 5870 in place of the standard 5770. All-in-all the refurb cost $1,000 less than the retail price of the same "new" model at the Apple store.

I'm sure that the Sandy Bridge MP, whenever it arrives, will be a very nice machine. But from what I've read here and elsewhere, it appears that it will be an incremental improvement as opposed to a breakthrough product. In any event, if you need a MP now, looking at a refurb or a used 2010 might be a good way to get what you need without paying a premium for a model that will be superceded sooner or later.

Good luck.

 

[Inconsequential]

I'm talking about business/professional users that earn a living with their machines, not enthusiasts/hobbyists.

In such cases, any value "lost" from buying current technology now when new systems are less than a year away (lets say a Quarter), is more than made up for vs. lost income (either don't have a machine, or the one they're using can't keep up with their workload = lost income due to turning away clients, or worse, losing them due to failure to meet deadlines).

In such cases, it's in that user's best interest to buy now rather than waiting for the next machine to appear.

Still doesn't mean they shouldn't try and work out the cheapest way forward.

But yes in those situations I would agree.

 

[nanofrog]

Still doesn't mean they shouldn't try and work out the cheapest way forward.

I see the situation described (business/professional users) that buy a system, even just months before, as taking the cheapest route. It's all a matter of considering all the financial aspects, including loss of revenue due to waiting/reduced productivity for those earning a living with that system.

But what works out for one user, may not be the case for another (i.e. better for some to buy immediately, and others wait - it all depends on the specifics, but when an income is involved, there are more things to consider on the financial side).

 

[wallysb01]

Good discussion,
I am in the market at the moment. One issue being a sole proprietorship, is that my tax time ends on 12-31-11. I need to make a purchase in 2011. I have an iMac, and a MBP. My audio studio is using an XP box with an early Core2Duo quad. Its days are numbered (about 6yrs. old). Even my Intel mobo has no native drivers, but the main issue is now my sound interface. I use 32 channels of ADAT on fiber that interfaces to my main audio control surface/mixer. A MP is the only solution for me. My cards are PCIe, Firewire bogs down and there are no real solutions using an iMac. TB (Thunderbolt) is promising, but maybe a long way off for using an iMac, storage would be cool on the Pegasus, but it too is very new. There are really no PCIe cages to speak of yet, although on the horizon. The other issue with TB is that any cards in a PCIe cage have to have TB "aware" drivers; brick wall for me. I use Steinberg Nuendo for digital audio, most of the MB users recommend the 3.33GHz SP-Hex. CPU speed is the biggy. It will be a huge leap in comparison to what I now use. That coupled with two Cinema displays will give me more real estate than my (3) 22" Samsungs.

So maybe it sometimes just comes down to biting the bullet and giving up on the "I'll wait for the new one", there's ALWAYS a new one. I thought maybe today there would be something announced at the iPhone 4S announcement . . pipe dream stuff.

Edeno, you could alway buy a refurb/used now, then when the new one comes out and if you like the performance increase vs the cost, you could sell the old one and buy the new one. Since you'd be buying a refurb/used, you probably won't lose all that much $$ doing it this way and you also wouldn't lose productivity now. It will of course be a bit of a hassle cycling through two machines, installing OS/apps, transferring data and what not. However, I'm using a new base DP MP (we too couldn't wait for the new machines), and it came with Lion. In my opinion Lion is just not ready for professional use. Its just kinda buggy. Odd things just seem to start failing more often than with 10.6. And even a few of the programs I need are not yet available for 10.7. So, if you're going to be using Snow Leopard anyway, you'll have to be installing an OS and cloning over apps/data with a new purchase anyway.

 

[edenorchestra]

I have been looking at the Apple refurbished every day, haven't seen a Hex SP 3.33 lately. I assume that changes frequently? Are these typically units that came back defective and Apple fixes them up, or are they possibly leased units returned. I am unsure.

Mark

 

[BTMKRS]

Why? They hardly sell any of these.

Contrary to the belief that IPods, IPhones brought everyone to Mac...
The Mac Pro brought me to the Mac and only the Mac Pro can keep me here.

Im not into the IMac which is just a Macbook Pro with a 21"/27" inch screen.

If my Machine breaks down ... I'm not buying the same old Mac Pro again

 

[blunti]

Edeno, you could alway buy a refurb/used now, then when the new one comes out and if you like the performance increase vs the cost, you could sell the old one and buy the new one. Since you'd be buying a refurb/used, you probably won't lose all that much $$ doing it this way and you also wouldn't lose productivity now. It will of course be a bit of a hassle cycling through two machines, installing OS/apps, transferring data and what not. However, I'm using a new base DP MP (we too couldn't wait for the new machines), and it came with Lion. In my opinion Lion is just not ready for professional use. Its just kinda buggy. Odd things just seem to start failing more often than with 10.6. And even a few of the programs I need are not yet available for 10.7. So, if you're going to be using Snow Leopard anyway, you'll have to be installing an OS and cloning over apps/data with a new purchase anyway.

not to mention that SB-E will likely miss drivers from Snow Leopard...

 

[wallysb01]

Ebay usually has a few of them.

 

[d-m-a-x]

Contrary to the belief that IPods, IPhones brought everyone to Mac...
The Mac Pro brought me to the Mac and only the Mac Pro can keep me here.

Im not into the IMac which is just a Macbook Pro with a 21"/27" inch screen.

If my Machine dies I'm not buying the same old Mac Pro again

yup, the mac pro is the best value for the money. I realized this when lion came out, and my machine from 2006 in the only type of mac from that era can run it

 

[DisMyMac]

I realized this when lion came out, and my machine from 2006 in the only type of mac from that era can run it

When you refer to your computer's purchase date as an "era", that's a sign of a good value. And that it's due for an update.

 

[Kimmo]

I have been looking at the Apple refurbished every day, haven't seen a Hex SP 3.33 lately. I assume that changes frequently? Are these typically units that came back defective and Apple fixes them up, or are they possibly leased units returned. I am unsure.

Mark

The Hex comes up much less frequently than other models and they sell quickly when they do. I saw one two weeks ago and another, that I bought, came up last week.

Mine arrived in like-new condition and had a couple of nice, surprise upgrades to memory and GPU. I don't believe they are off-lease units but are machines that have gone back during the 14 day "no questions" period or ones that needed repair. They come with Apple's one year warranty and are eligible for the two year AppleCare extension.

While it's still early, I am very pleased with my refurb purchase so far.

Good luck with your search.

 

[edenorchestra]

Good group here, thanks for the ideas and insights. I have time, and am having fun with the research. And of course we all know by now the end of an era has actually come with Steve Jobs passing.

 

[d-m-a-x]

When you refer to your computer's purchase date as an "era", that's a sign of a good value. And that it's due for an update.

yes, i am ready to plop down the cash. Waiting for the new xeon - till then the ol woodcrest is holding it's own

 

[derbothaus]

More info.
"...current roadmaps place the launch of these chips in the second Q1 of 2012"
Isn't that Q2?

http://www.guru3d.com/news/intel-xeon-e5-sandy-bridgee-cpus-launch-schedule/

 

[Blue Sun]

More info.
"...current roadmaps place the launch of these chips in the second Q1 of 2012"
Isn't that Q2?

http://www.guru3d.com/news/intel-xeon-e5-sandy-bridgee-cpus-launch-schedule/

This is getting ridiculous, so no new Mac Pro's until mid-2012?

I should have bought one 4 months ago.

 

[nanofrog]

More info.
"...current roadmaps place the launch of these chips in the second Q1 of 2012"
Isn't that Q2?

http://www.guru3d.com/news/intel-xeon-e5-sandy-bridgee-cpus-launch-schedule/

Sadly, it's not that big of a surprise IMO, given the recent stepping issue that was publicized (errata in the C1 stepping for VT-d, which would have a negative effect on server sales in particular).

They've fixed the errata with C2 stepping, but it takes time to get it implemented.

 

[Eidorian]

Sadly, it's not that big of a surprise IMO, given the recent stepping issue that was publicized (errata in the C1 stepping for VT-d, which would have a negative effect on server sales in particular).

They've fixed the errata with C2 stepping, but it takes time to get it implemented.

They might want to avoid the joys of something like the TLB bug or the Intel 6 Series PCH recall. People want VT-d.

 

[nanofrog]

They might want to avoid the joys of something like the TLB bug or the Intel 6 Series PCH recall. People want VT-d.

Exactly.

Such an issue could easily become both a PR nightmare and reduce their net sales figures due to lost sales.

 

[Eidorian]

This is getting ridiculous, so no new Mac Pro's until mid-2012?

I should have bought one 4 months ago.

Exactly.

Such an issue could easily become both a PR nightmare and reduce their net sales figures due to lost sales.

Well at least Bulldozer squeaked in today.

 

[jav6454]

Well at least Bulldozer squeaked in today.

Where? I don't see anything on Anandtech.com yet....

 

[Eidorian]

Where? I don't see anything on Anandtech.com yet....

Anandtech does appear to be taking their time. Tom's, HardOCP, Guru3D, and Bit-tech have reviews up. This Czech site even has a preview of the FX-6100 and some nifty graphs that normalize to the processor you hover over.