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Mac Pro 4.1 Dual CPU Upgrade - Be very, VERY Careful
- Thread starter JazzyGB1
- Start date
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For de-lidded CPU, I am quite sure it's not necessary to measure the torque.
I follow that guide to upgrade my single CPU 4,1. I have no tool to measure the torque, just finger tight. And everything works like a charm.
I am pretty sure it's more or less the same on the dual de-lidded CPU upgrade. As long as you didn't intentionally over-tighten the screw, nothing will damage. The heat sink is decided to install with a de-lidded CPU, should be relatively straight forward. That particular torque may put your heatsink at the optimum position. However, IMO, finger tight the screw won't make it too far from that position anyway, no need to make it too complicated.
I have been benchmarking all day and some of the tests are quite CPU bound like Unigene Valley and GRID Autosport. When I do upgrade my CPU I will ask my dealer to do it as they offer the service. I don't have to deal with all this terrible stories and warning lights I read on here.
But all the "terrible stories" concern the 4,1 dual CPU MPs, and you have a 5,1, in which swapping CPUs is simple as can be. Hope your dealer doesn't soak you... I bet he replaces both CPUs in 15-20 minutes.
Mine is the 4,1 already upgraded to 5,1 so the hard work has already been done. For the awesome people at Create Pro it's easy they build these machines every day for many happy customers that's why there's a few bent and hateful people here trying to stir up ****. Right now am happy with the speed. At the end of the year I'd like to get the faster processor and another SSD blade just for Windows.
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when i upgraded my 4,1.. i wont lie, my butt was puckering a bit. but everything worked as expected, or, flawlessly.
Finally...SUCCESS! 
Okay, replacement CPU arrived and it's done - I'm now elated to have a 12 core Mac!
Only took me 15 minutes to fit the replacement CPU and to get everything working, so in the end it was pretty simple.
Just unfortunate to have had the worst of things...a semi functioning CPU!
This IMO is even worse than a completely faulty one, as it gives the illusion of being okay so you dismiss this as the cause and spend hours (or in my case days), trying to make it work.
Anyway, all's well that ends well but it is something to bear in mind for anyone else considering the update.
Just for the record I never used the washers either.
Might be wise for others to do so, but as I already had one fully functioning CPU without them, I'd decided that it made little sense to use them on the other.
Thanks to everyone who responded, particularly Luxr and Fuzzface for your tips.
Regards
Okay, replacement CPU arrived and it's done - I'm now elated to have a 12 core Mac!
Only took me 15 minutes to fit the replacement CPU and to get everything working, so in the end it was pretty simple.
Just unfortunate to have had the worst of things...a semi functioning CPU!
This IMO is even worse than a completely faulty one, as it gives the illusion of being okay so you dismiss this as the cause and spend hours (or in my case days), trying to make it work.
Anyway, all's well that ends well but it is something to bear in mind for anyone else considering the update.
Just for the record I never used the washers either.
Might be wise for others to do so, but as I already had one fully functioning CPU without them, I'd decided that it made little sense to use them on the other.
Thanks to everyone who responded, particularly Luxr and Fuzzface for your tips.
Regards
It seems like someone "turned me in" and I was warned not to post the link again to The Apple Technicians Guide. This I don't understand. There's so many crappy guides to changing a CPU on a Mac Pro available on this site and one official guide, and I can't post it here? But you can find it on Google. Makes absolutely no sense to me. It really should be a Sticky IMHO. Again, IMHO, this site has a lot of silly rules.
Lou
Hey !!
Great news !!!
Maybe you could change thread title now?
Go to edit first post then hit "go advanced"
Great news !!!
Maybe you could change thread title now?
Go to edit first post then hit "go advanced"
Sorry Lou, Wasn't me, I thought you were providing a valuable link, but I always get sanctioned for stuff I never see coming.
there's one guy who has it on his website, don't know how he got away with that.
OP -- please change your title
OP, please change your title. This was never a technical assembly error, just faulty/incompatible hardware add-ons. I also thought I was making a mistake when I upgraded the memory of my 4,1 -- 5,1 from 48GB to 64GB. Turns out that getting memory which works nicely together is much more difficult than it looks.
Truth is, CPU upgrade of the 4,1 is quite easy indeed. Just make sure you are very careful and very diligent in following directions. I used Pidelski's guide (you can find it in this forum). For the most part, it was absolutely correct.
Most people think they can just follow directions without reading the ENTIRE set of directions first, and they get into trouble. My advice, read, read, read -- then read again. Then think it through, then attempt.
Good luck to y'all out there. I am buying a GTX 980 from MacVidCards, either another ARECA 1882/1883 RAID card and calling it quits for this machine. I will use it until the CPUs burn out and call it good (most likely, I will keep it as a server once it can no longer render my 3D cone beam scans fast enough)
OP, please change your title. This was never a technical assembly error, just faulty/incompatible hardware add-ons. I also thought I was making a mistake when I upgraded the memory of my 4,1 -- 5,1 from 48GB to 64GB. Turns out that getting memory which works nicely together is much more difficult than it looks.
Truth is, CPU upgrade of the 4,1 is quite easy indeed. Just make sure you are very careful and very diligent in following directions. I used Pidelski's guide (you can find it in this forum). For the most part, it was absolutely correct.
Most people think they can just follow directions without reading the ENTIRE set of directions first, and they get into trouble. My advice, read, read, read -- then read again. Then think it through, then attempt.
Good luck to y'all out there. I am buying a GTX 980 from MacVidCards, either another ARECA 1882/1883 RAID card and calling it quits for this machine. I will use it until the CPUs burn out and call it good (most likely, I will keep it as a server once it can no longer render my 3D cone beam scans fast enough)
I've amended the title, but probably not as much as you wished.
However it's never a bad thing to reinforce the extreme care message when performing this upgrade, as a damaged CPU socket or (in my case) a misbehaving CPU can wreak havoc!
I see second video at 00:44 a lot of solder on the core.
How was your's friend clean the solder from the processor core?
I used a razor blade and a carpet knife blade, mostly scrapped it off not using them to 'cut' the solder, but to scrape it off.
I strongly recommend using the de-lidding process. IMO one of the problems people are having is that the very long thread posts like the ones holding the heatsinks in place tend to thread with varying slight differences in torque due to minor flaws as well as the thread lock debris left on that makes people either over torque or under torque.
When you de-lid you reduce to almost zero the chance you will over tighten the heatsinks, plus there's no doubt that it's going to help the CPUs to run cooler. Conversely if you're being cautious about torquing down the heatsink onto the CPU you have the distinct possibility of under tightening as well, and in that case the CPU simply does not show up as working! This happened with me, until I tightened to what felt 'right', something you can't really do if you're using washers and three turns in a mathematical way on posts that have debris on them from thread lock etc.
I'm dealing with household repair issue over the next couple days, but sometime by or during the coming weekend I'll post pictures and a walk through, I'm firmly convinced that if you want this to be painless, de-lidding is actually the way to go. Though of course sphincter tightening is still a part of the process!
Sorry but this is obviously going to be a noob question - online guides frequently call the 4,1 & 5,1 mechanically identical, but is there actually a difference for the dual processor versions in how the heat sinks sit on the processors?
The Mac Pro 2010 (5,1) uses CPU's WITH the heatspreaders on. As such, no special attention to removing them or using washers, etc. It becomes a very easy upgrade.
I used a razor blade and a carpet knife blade, mostly scrapped it off not using them to 'cut' the solder, but to scrape it off.
I strongly recommend using the de-lidding process. IMO one of the problems people are having is that the very long thread posts like the ones holding the heatsinks in place tend to thread with varying slight differences in torque due to minor flaws as well as the thread lock debris left on that makes people either over torque or under torque.
When you de-lid you reduce to almost zero the chance you will over tighten the heatsinks, plus there's no doubt that it's going to help the CPUs to run cooler. Conversely if you're being cautious about torquing down the heatsink onto the CPU you have the distinct possibility of under tightening as well, and in that case the CPU simply does not show up as working! This happened with me, until I tightened to what felt 'right', something you can't really do if you're using washers and three turns in a mathematical way on posts that have debris on them from thread lock etc.
I'm dealing with household repair issue over the next couple days, but sometime by or during the coming weekend I'll post pictures and a walk through, I'm firmly convinced that if you want this to be painless, de-lidding is actually the way to go. Though of course sphincter tightening is still a part of the process!
I did the same this this weekend. I had a buddy delid them for me, but when he gave them to me, the solder flow on the tops were jagged and extremely uneven. For a moment, I thought about using heat to melt the solder and smooth it out, but then I picked up a brand new blade and starting testing how soft the solder was. Soon, I had easily shaved off all the solder down to a smooth, mirror finish. Cleaned the tops, applied AS5 and I get pretty good idle temps of roughly 40C on my X5680's. Everything worked the first time!
I recommend anyone doing an upgrade on a 2009 to go the route of delidding their CPU's. Various methods are detailed through videos on youtube. It's so much easier than messing with washers and torque and all that...
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That's what mattspace asked about specifically...dual processor configurations.
Sorry. I know; obvious. Redundant. But just to be sure no one de-lids the CPU destined for their 4,1 single CPU MP. I've seen too much confusion.
right. I don't suppose there's a turnkey solution to make the 4,1 permanently as easy and safe to upgrade cpus as the 5,1 - changing the heat sinks to 5,1 versions, shaving them down a mm or similar.. i guess it's something people generally only do once, so will live with a difficult option...
Thats actually an interesting question..
What exactly is changed from the heatsink/cpu socket/bolt mounts from the 4,1 dual to 5,1 dual.
Maybe switching to 5,1 heatsinks will change the geometry so lidded cpu's fit correctly?
What exactly is changed from the heatsink/cpu socket/bolt mounts from the 4,1 dual to 5,1 dual.
Maybe switching to 5,1 heatsinks will change the geometry so lidded cpu's fit correctly?
risky
the cool thing about single CPU 4,1 is the spring clip (just like on a $15 PC MoBo) that flips over the CPU and snaps it in
would have been SO MUCH EASIER if they had used that
That's my opinion too. The torque specification is there to protect the threads on the bolts and standoffs.
As the bolts are tightened, the heatsink is pulled down to the standoffs on the processor board. Once contact is made, the processor has compressed the socket spring fingers to the extent required and no further compression can occur because the heatsink is already in mechanical contact with the standoffs.
The mechanical design of the processor socket, the CPU, and heatsink is such that the spring fingers are correctly compressed when the heatsink makes contact with the standoffs on the processor board.
I know this is an old thread now but thought I'd post the following in the hope it helps……
I'm far from a novice at this sort of work but this one did catch me out on a couple of issues - so - as follows:
1) 'inherited' an 09 Mac pro 4,1 dual quad-core 2.26 - fully working.
2) My lad is making noises about him having a better machine for Cinema 4D ( has an old 8-core 3,1)…
3) Read up on what's required and found a pair of 6-core x5660 cpus (2.8Ghz) on fleabay for £100……
MX-4 paste, long 3mm hex key, square of thick (2 mm or so) thermal pad.
-----------
4) Tried to apply the 4,1 to 5,1 Firmware patch - wouldn't work - error 5570 AND /or 5530. Took note of having the Apple Firmware updater mounted on the desktop because the original Apple link has changed - still no go……. almost gave up, but:
Answer? - could NOT get it working on later systems BUT, when machine booted (in desperation) from an old HD I had with 10.6.7 installed - Bingo! - updater ran, created the RAM disc, 'hooking' in the Apple Firmware Updater 1.5 lying on the desktop as it went along.
Rebooted with the usual button held down 'til light flashes - firmware installed, re-boots, now reads as a 5,1
Note also that the Mac needs to be 'factory' ( i.e. no non-EFi 'PC' Graphics cards or odd hardware) when you attempt this.
5) Fitting the CPUs - chances are you'll end up with a pair with lids (heat spreaders or IHSs ) - if you find / get lidless - all well and good as they'll be a straightforward replacement, but for every one else……..
A micrometer across the lidless and lidded CPUs showed a consistent 2.24mm difference in thickness between them i.e. the main heatsink will sit 2.24mm higher with the lidded (IHS) version of the CPUs.
I opted to space the posts to accommodate this using 3 x 0.75mm thick hard fibre washers ( 2.25mm) on each post.
There are many ways you could space these - but don't guess - a digital calliper is about a tenner on flea bay!
Most colleges would have a small lathe somewhere - e.g. get the tech' to turn you off eight 2.25mm plastic or metal spacers??…….. its important to get these right.
The old CPUs of course came away stuck to the heatsinks - carefully remove ( you 'might' need them?), and clean the heatsinks. WATCH out for the long thin thermal pad on the edge of the main heatsinks - you'll need this to stay in place and be packed out by another couple of mm so buy some thick thermal pad at the same time as all your other bits and trim it to suit. DON"T ignore it / forget it / leave the gap, or all those little metal cased bits n bobs that sit under it will cook!
Seriously check the sockets for any dirt or foreign bodies using an eye glass and only when 100% certain they are perfect, Carefully seat the new CPU A in the socket and apply a single line of compound (MX-4?) in the approved manner. Cover socket B for the time being.
You can 'hope' that the fan/sensor connector socket will fit / have enough reach - personally I thought losing about 2.5mm was pushing it a bit - so I opted for loosening them, trimming off tabs and leaving enough hanging free to hand plug them fully home. By all means try them 'as is' if you like, you might be OK, but just be aware that sporadic contacts in these connector(s) will result in odd problems, possible failed boots and or unexpected shut downs.
Carefully place the heatsink assembly home on the 4 pins - press firmly with a finger centrally between the 4 holes to hold it down and reasonably square while you sequentially tighten (diagonally) the 4 screws, slowly increasing the tension each pass…… 4 or 5 passes?. Because you were careful to add accurate spacers, it will be possible to safely tighten the screws to a point where they obviously go 'firm', without causing damage to the CPU or socket. DON'T over tighten! This (IMHO) is a much better approach than (say) counting number of turns etc as, even if that works, the heatsink plate is not fully held down against the steps on the 4 mounting posts and can therefore still 'rock' with the CPU acting as the pivoting point.
Place carrier board back in the Mac with just CPU A present - fire it up - does it work? Hopefully yes, if so check the CPU is reporting correctly in the System info. Shut down, repeat for CPU B.
DID THIS WORK FOR ME?…………….. NO !!!
Why? - Could NOT get CPU B to work (froze Mac / racing fans / no boot) - drove me fr*ggin nuts all afternoon!
Cause? ( with a strong eye glass), one of the pins in CPU B socket was bent across and touching another….. HOW?,
no idea given how careful I 'thought' I'd been, but I have to accept that I must've done it (???).
So……. even those of us who think we know what we are doing make mistakes.
Anyway, carefully straightened pin with a strong lens and micro tweezers, re-assembled as per above, BINGO, fired up straightaway and reports two 6-core 2.8Ghz ( scores 27000 on geek bench 3) ( as opposed to 13800 before), no horrible fan noises and CPUs hum along between 35'C and 65'C depending on how hard I push 'em……. all 24 'cores'
Not a bad result for a couple of hundred pounds!!
So, do you're homework, get the right base machine and parts, take your time and do it right 1st time.
It DOES work!
Hope this helps and regards to all you Mac hackers.
: )
TAMM
I'm far from a novice at this sort of work but this one did catch me out on a couple of issues - so - as follows:
1) 'inherited' an 09 Mac pro 4,1 dual quad-core 2.26 - fully working.
2) My lad is making noises about him having a better machine for Cinema 4D ( has an old 8-core 3,1)…
3) Read up on what's required and found a pair of 6-core x5660 cpus (2.8Ghz) on fleabay for £100……
MX-4 paste, long 3mm hex key, square of thick (2 mm or so) thermal pad.
-----------
4) Tried to apply the 4,1 to 5,1 Firmware patch - wouldn't work - error 5570 AND /or 5530. Took note of having the Apple Firmware updater mounted on the desktop because the original Apple link has changed - still no go……. almost gave up, but:
Answer? - could NOT get it working on later systems BUT, when machine booted (in desperation) from an old HD I had with 10.6.7 installed - Bingo! - updater ran, created the RAM disc, 'hooking' in the Apple Firmware Updater 1.5 lying on the desktop as it went along.
Rebooted with the usual button held down 'til light flashes - firmware installed, re-boots, now reads as a 5,1
Note also that the Mac needs to be 'factory' ( i.e. no non-EFi 'PC' Graphics cards or odd hardware) when you attempt this.
5) Fitting the CPUs - chances are you'll end up with a pair with lids (heat spreaders or IHSs ) - if you find / get lidless - all well and good as they'll be a straightforward replacement, but for every one else……..
A micrometer across the lidless and lidded CPUs showed a consistent 2.24mm difference in thickness between them i.e. the main heatsink will sit 2.24mm higher with the lidded (IHS) version of the CPUs.
I opted to space the posts to accommodate this using 3 x 0.75mm thick hard fibre washers ( 2.25mm) on each post.
There are many ways you could space these - but don't guess - a digital calliper is about a tenner on flea bay!
Most colleges would have a small lathe somewhere - e.g. get the tech' to turn you off eight 2.25mm plastic or metal spacers??…….. its important to get these right.
The old CPUs of course came away stuck to the heatsinks - carefully remove ( you 'might' need them?), and clean the heatsinks. WATCH out for the long thin thermal pad on the edge of the main heatsinks - you'll need this to stay in place and be packed out by another couple of mm so buy some thick thermal pad at the same time as all your other bits and trim it to suit. DON"T ignore it / forget it / leave the gap, or all those little metal cased bits n bobs that sit under it will cook!
Seriously check the sockets for any dirt or foreign bodies using an eye glass and only when 100% certain they are perfect, Carefully seat the new CPU A in the socket and apply a single line of compound (MX-4?) in the approved manner. Cover socket B for the time being.
You can 'hope' that the fan/sensor connector socket will fit / have enough reach - personally I thought losing about 2.5mm was pushing it a bit - so I opted for loosening them, trimming off tabs and leaving enough hanging free to hand plug them fully home. By all means try them 'as is' if you like, you might be OK, but just be aware that sporadic contacts in these connector(s) will result in odd problems, possible failed boots and or unexpected shut downs.
Carefully place the heatsink assembly home on the 4 pins - press firmly with a finger centrally between the 4 holes to hold it down and reasonably square while you sequentially tighten (diagonally) the 4 screws, slowly increasing the tension each pass…… 4 or 5 passes?. Because you were careful to add accurate spacers, it will be possible to safely tighten the screws to a point where they obviously go 'firm', without causing damage to the CPU or socket. DON'T over tighten! This (IMHO) is a much better approach than (say) counting number of turns etc as, even if that works, the heatsink plate is not fully held down against the steps on the 4 mounting posts and can therefore still 'rock' with the CPU acting as the pivoting point.
Place carrier board back in the Mac with just CPU A present - fire it up - does it work? Hopefully yes, if so check the CPU is reporting correctly in the System info. Shut down, repeat for CPU B.
DID THIS WORK FOR ME?…………….. NO !!!
Why? - Could NOT get CPU B to work (froze Mac / racing fans / no boot) - drove me fr*ggin nuts all afternoon!
Cause? ( with a strong eye glass), one of the pins in CPU B socket was bent across and touching another….. HOW?,
no idea given how careful I 'thought' I'd been, but I have to accept that I must've done it (???).
So……. even those of us who think we know what we are doing make mistakes.
Anyway, carefully straightened pin with a strong lens and micro tweezers, re-assembled as per above, BINGO, fired up straightaway and reports two 6-core 2.8Ghz ( scores 27000 on geek bench 3) ( as opposed to 13800 before), no horrible fan noises and CPUs hum along between 35'C and 65'C depending on how hard I push 'em……. all 24 'cores'
Not a bad result for a couple of hundred pounds!!
So, do you're homework, get the right base machine and parts, take your time and do it right 1st time.
It DOES work!
Hope this helps and regards to all you Mac hackers.
: )
TAMM
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