Mac Pro 5.1 + GPU Upgrade + BOOTCAMP + WINDOWS 8.1/10

[ActionableMango]

Thought I could just install Win 10 from a bootable USB like on a normal PC but if I get a new GPU I won't be able to boot into windows (no EFI and no Start-Disc Manager from bootcamp) or am I crazy ? ? ?

I'm a proponent of having boot screens, so I'd either get a flashable card, or pay to flash one, or keep a secondary card in the computer that has Mac EFI, or at an absolute bare minimum keep an EFI card in the closet as a backup in case you need it.

But I've seen people here without Mac EFI who have installed Windows somehow. Maybe the Windows installer inits the GPU? Hopefully one of them can chip in.

 

[h9826790]

I'm a proponent of having boot screens, so I'd either get a flashable card, or pay to flash one, or keep a secondary card in the computer that has Mac EFI, or at an absolute bare minimum keep an EFI card in the closet as a backup in case you need it.

But I've seen people here without Mac EFI who have installed Windows somehow. Maybe the Windows installer inits the GPU? Hopefully one of them can chip in.

Correct, the Windows installer will initialise the non flashed GPU properly.

I tested it with my non flashed 1080Ti, just burn a disc, hold “C” during boot, then the Windows installation screen will show up in about a min. Pretty straight forward.

 

[MikkelAD]

Correct, the Windows installer will initialise the non flashed GPU properly.

I tested it with my non flashed 1080Ti, just burn a disc, hold “C” during boot, then the Windows installation screen will show up in about a min. Pretty straight forward.

Guess you guys are right but that was not my concern. I can just install windows before switching cards...

The thing I thought about was the whole boot "show". It gets a bit complicated if you want APFS on your Mac drive because then windows OS CAN'T see it in BOOTCAMP menu in windows - One will have to restart the computer and choose hold down ALT(OPTION) to get BOOT MENU but then gets tough if you don't have a flashed card

- I know we talked about just getting 1 SSD connected to SATA 2 and convert back to HFS+. So many ups and downs

 

[ActionableMango]

The thing I thought about was the whole boot "show". It gets a bit complicated if you want APFS on your Mac drive because then windows OS CAN'T see it in BOOTCAMP menu in windows - One will have to restart the computer and choose hold down ALT(OPTION) to get BOOT MENU but then gets tough if you don't have a flashed card

If MacOS is the default bootup operating system, then you shouldn't have to do that.

If MacOS is not the default bootup operating system, then you can change it so that it is.

I also don't know why people are so hot right now for APFS, considering it is so poorly supported and buggy. Is it making some workflow way better?

 

[MikkelAD]

If MacOS is the default bootup operating system, then you shouldn't have to do that.

If MacOS is not the default bootup operating system, then you can change it so that it is.

I also don't know why people are so hot right now for APFS, considering it is so poorly supported and buggy. Is it making some workflow way better?

Yes it's pretty straight forward to boot into MAC OSX since that is the default system but without bootscreen I won't be able to get into windows ? ? ? Or at least the way I want with APFS and so on...

I am not particularly HOT for APFS. It's just that it's the newest file-system and like anything else I expect apple to focus on getting it sable, fast - optimized in generel because why wouldn't they?

 

[ActionableMango]

Yes it's pretty straight forward to boot into MAC OSX since that is the default system but without bootscreen I won't be able to get into windows ? ? ?

With MacOS as the default:
From MacOS use Bootchamp to select Windows.
From Windows, just reboot into MacOS.
To reboot from Windows into Windows, use EasyUEFI.

But all of this is a pain. I like your original plan of just getting a 680 and flashing it. That's what I did. Having boot screens is a good thing.

 

[MikkelAD]

It's much easier to install the Windows SSD in the optical bay. Just plug the SSD into the SATA cable, leave it there, done!

My SSD sits on the Super drive, but it's totally OK to hang it below the Super drive. I've done that for a long time.

I am using a non flashed PC 1080Ti, the Tempo SSD card, and I can dual boot between Windows and macOS. Simply keep using HFS+ in macOS (but not upgrade to APFS), then use system preference to select Windows, or in Windows using bootcamp apps to select macOS as next boot drive. So easy.

Also, for your info. You don't need any remote control, Mac EFI, or another GPU to do the macOS / web driver update. I shared the detail procedure in here.

Hey Guys back again !

I have bought a Gigabyte 970 GTX G1 gaming and should receive it in a couple of days.

Thought I would prepare the Mac Pro a bit for windows install and so on. I unmounted 1 of my 850 EVO SSDs from the Sonnet Tempo PCI CARD and put that SSD underneath my optical drive connected by SATA.

It now recognizes that drive as an "internal" drive and at first it all seemed good, but.......

When I load BOOTCAMP and want to install windows on the internal drive it says the same **** and can't see the drive.

Any ideas? Can it really be true that BOOTCAMP only works if the SSD for windows AND the SSD for OS X are connected by SATA???

 

[h9826790]

Hey Guys back again !

I have bought a Gigabyte 970 GTX G1 gaming and should receive it in a couple of days.

Thought I would prepare the Mac Pro a bit for windows install and so on. I unmounted 1 of my 850 EVO SSDs from the Sonnet Tempo PCI CARD and put that SSD underneath my optical drive connected by SATA.

It now recognizes that drive as an "internal" drive and at first it all seemed good, but.......

View attachment 754710
View attachment 754712
View attachment 754713

When I load BOOTCAMP and want to install windows on the internal drive it says the same **** and can't see the drive.

Any ideas? Can it really be true that BOOTCAMP only works if the SSD for windows AND the SSD for OS X are connected by SATA???

Sorry, can't read your screen capture, don't know that language.

But if you just want to install Windows, no need bootcamp. Just burn a disc, holding C during boot (this will boot from the disc), and follow the Windows installer's instruction. I tried that with my 1080Ti, it definitely work with non flashed GPU.

 

[MikkelAD]

Sorry, can't read your screen capture, don't know that language.

But if you just want to install Windows, no need bootcamp. Just burn a disc, holding C during boot (this will boot from the disc), and follow the Windows installer's instruction. I tried that with my 1080Ti, it definitely work with non flashed GPU.

I'm from Denmark maybe google translate can help :S

Well okay that is a possibility but how do one switch between OS X and WIN when I got no bootscreen if the 970 GTX gets installed ? ? ?

 

[h9826790]

I'm from Denmark maybe google translate can help :S

Well okay that is a possibility but how do one switch between OS X and WIN when I got no bootscreen if the 970 GTX gets installed ? ? ?

You can still install bootcamp driver after Windows installation. In that case, simply choose MacOS inside the Windows bootcamp apps.

(Sorry, it's my turn. The screen capture is in Chinese, hopefully Google translate can help )

And in macOS, the same selected is available in system preference.

N.B. This method ONLY work with HFS+, if you convert your hard drive to APFS in High Sierra. The Windows bootcamp apps will NOT show your APFS partition. You can still select other OSX / macOS partition from there, but not APFS High Sierra.

 

[MikkelAD]

(Sorry, it's my turn. The screen capture is in Chinese, hopefully Google translate can help )

Bah you ape!

You can still install bootcamp driver after Windows installation. In that case, simply choose MacOS inside the Windows bootcamp apps.

Let me see if I understand this right: I can download the necessary drivers from BOOTCAMP and put them on a USB ---> Install Win 10 from DVD ---> Load the drivers from the USB when WIN 10 boots to desktop and I will have the "BOOTCAMP MENU" ? ? ?

If I understand you correct that means if a person keeps the OS X at HFS+ and have 2 SSDs and a optical drive there is no benefit what so ever to use BOOTCAMP if one wants windows ???

That way I can maybe keep both my SSDs on the Sonnet PCIe card ? ? ?

That way I can maybe keep both my SSDs on the Sonnet PCIe card ? ? ?

Or maybe not :S :S :S

 

[h9826790]

Bah you ape!



Let me see if I understand this right: I can download the necessary drivers from BOOTCAMP and put them on a USB ---> Install Win 10 from DVD ---> Load the drivers from the USB when WIN 10 boots to desktop and I will have the "BOOTCAMP MENU" ? ? ?

If I understand you correct that means if a person keeps the OS X at HFS+ and have 2 SSDs and a optical drive there is no benefit what so ever to use BOOTCAMP if one wants windows ???

That way I can maybe keep both my SSDs on the Sonnet PCIe card ? ? ?



Or maybe not :S :S :S

View attachment 754751

Sonnet Tempo SSD cannot boot Windows. I tried.

The bootcamp apps only help you do 2 things.

1) Partition the hard drive (most Mac only has single hard drive, they need to be partitioned to install Windows). In your case, this is totally irrelevant.

2) Download the bootcamp driver. You can download it directly from Apple web site.

So, yes, you can use bootcamp apps to download the drivers to a USB drive. Then install Windows via a Win 10 DVD without the help from bootcamp apps to partition your hard drive. Once boot to Windows desktop, install the driver from the USB drive.

Just a heads up for you. You may need to use DOS prompt to run the bootcamp driver installer. There is a Windows version check in the setup.exe file. This version check may stop you from installing the bootcamp driver.

But if you run the installer (BootCamp.msi) manually inside a DOS prompt as admin, you should able to bypass that check.

 

[MikkelAD]

Sonnet Tempo SSD cannot boot Windows. I tried.

Okay. But have you tried with one and two SSDs mounted on the card. The picture I attached states it should be able to boot windows with one SSD mounted ? ? ?

The bootcamp apps only help you do 2 things.

1) Partition the hard drive (most Mac only has single hard drive, they need to be partitioned to install Windows). In your case, this is totally irrelevant.

2) Download the bootcamp driver. You can download it directly from Apple web site.

So, yes, you can use bootcamp apps to download the drivers to a USB drive. Then install Windows via a Win 10 DVD without the help from bootcamp apps to partition your hard drive. Once boot to Windows desktop, install the driver from the USB drive.

Great, it all makes a little more sense now. Guess it also helps people without the ability to use a optical drive...
On that note. You stated I could BOOT from a DVD (optical drive) by holding "C" down even with the new GPU. Is it in any way possible you use a boot-able USB with WIN 10 on instead ? ? ?

But doesn't BOOTCAMP identify the hardware when you download them to a USB ? ? ? - One can do that at Apple's homepage too ? ? ?

- Do you suggest I clean install my MAC PRO with HFS+ AND make the 970 GTX work probably in OS X before installing windows ? ? ?
I have read some threads about Windows not being too happy about "installing" stock AMD 5770 first and switching card (in my case 970 GTX) but I very well could be wrong...

Just a heads up for you. You may need to use DOS prompt to run the bootcamp driver installer. There is a Windows version check in the setup.exe file. This version check may stop you from installing the bootcamp driver.

Thanks ! Will keep that in mind but let's cross fingers in won't happen

It REALLY still pisses me off why the whole BOOTCAMP show doesn't work when I "made" one of my 850 EVO's internal by SATA and it still won't recognize that

 

[h9826790]

Okay. But have you tried with one and two SSDs mounted on the card. The picture I attached states it should be able to boot windows with one SSD mounted ? ? ?

Great, it all makes a little more sense now. Guess it also helps people without the ability to use a optical drive...
On that note. You stated I could BOOT from a DVD (optical drive) by holding "C" down even with the new GPU. Is it in any way possible you use a boot-able USB with WIN 10 on instead ? ? ?

But doesn't BOOTCAMP identify the hardware when you download them to a USB ? ? ? - One can do that at Apple's homepage too ? ? ?

- Do you suggest I clean install my MAC PRO with HFS+ AND make the 970 GTX work probably in OS X before installing windows ? ? ?
I have read some threads about Windows not being too happy about "installing" stock AMD 5770 first and switching card (in my case 970 GTX) but I very well could be wrong...

Thanks ! Will keep that in mind but let's cross fingers in won't happen

It REALLY still pisses me off why the whole BOOTCAMP show doesn't work when I "made" one of my 850 EVO's internal by SATA and it still won't recognize that

That's a confusing description on the web page. Booting Windows only supported on a PC, not Mac. For Mac, only revision B card can boot macOS.

I never ever manage to boot from any Windows USB installation drive. May be other members can help you. IMO, burn a disc is much easier on cMP.

I just Google "5,1 bootcamp driver", and have the following result in 1 seconds. Direct download, no need to check any hardware.

https://support.apple.com/kb/dl1720?locale=en_US

Install OSX or not is totally irrelevant to Windows installation. In fact, better remove all other hard drive except the one for Windows. So, even though you have a stable OSX, I still recommend you remove that drive before Windows installation.

There is no need to use the 5770, you can finish the installation process with just the GTX970.

I really don't know why the bootcamp doesn't work. The last time I use the bootcamp apps is few years ago. Nowadays, if I want to install Windows, I will simply boot from the disc and start the installation.

 

[weckart]

1) You only need a single cable (dual mini 6pin -> single 8pin), no need a cable combination for just a single 8pin.

Dunno about that. In theory, it should be enough if you aren't stressing the GPU but my own experience makes me wonder. I have a Sapphire HD7950 with a reference design. It flashed without having to mess around with mcuc edits but that is where the problems started. The board itself has R9 280X written on it but the firmware loaded and the box it came in stated 7950. Before flashing both BIOSes ran, the second with higher fan speeds. After flashing, the second BIOS would cause my MacPro 5,1 not to boot. The flashed BIOS could not complete any benchmark applications without crashing. Also, the display would occasionally freeze coming out of sleep. I used a mini-6 to 8 and a mini-6 to 6 cable from the 2 video power ports on the logic board. It appears I might need to spread the load a bit.

 

[h9826790]

Dunno about that. In theory, it should be enough if you aren't stressing the GPU but my own experience makes me wonder. I have a Sapphire HD7950 with a reference design. It flashed without having to mess around with mcuc edits but that is where the problems started. The board itself has R9 280X written on it but the firmware loaded and the box it came in stated 7950. Before flashing both BIOSes ran, the second with higher fan speeds. After flashing, the second BIOS would cause my MacPro 5,1 not to boot. The flashed BIOS could not complete any benchmark applications without crashing. Also, the display would occasionally freeze coming out of sleep. I used a mini-6 to 8 and a mini-6 to 6 cable from the 2 video power ports on the logic board. It appears I might need to spread the load a bit.

Something is wrong here. 7950 is equivalent to R9 280, not R9 280X.

Without load sharing, some R9 280X can crash the cMP in some benchmarks. However, in your case, I doubt if it’s properly flashed.

Since the card should perform identical from both ROM (just no boot screen from the PC BIOS). You may try to boot from the PC BIOS and run some benchmarks. If the card can do that without crash, then it’s a badly flashed card.

 

[MikkelAD]

That's a confusing description on the web page. Booting Windows only supported on a PC, not Mac. For Mac, only revision B card can boot macOS.

That's almost like Chinese for me Can you explain that a bit diffrent ???

I never ever manage to boot from any Windows USB installation drive. May be other members can help you. IMO, burn a disc is much easier on cMP.

Well that will be the way to go then. Don't think I have touched a DVD in 7-8 years but guess it's time again. Should be easy to burn when I got a WIN 10 ISO file right ???

I just Google "5,1 bootcamp driver", and have the following result in 1 seconds. Direct download, no need to check any hardware.

https://support.apple.com/kb/dl1720?locale=en_US

That page doesn't say anything about Mac Pro 2010-2012... Guess I will just get it on the USB since THAT part of BOOTCAMP is working

Install OSX or not is totally irrelevant to Windows installation. In fact, better remove all other hard drive except the one for Windows. So, even though you have a stable OSX, I still recommend you remove that drive before Windows installation.

There is no need to use the 5770, you can finish the installation process with just the GTX970.

Okay great! Think I will try making the 970 GTX work on a fresh HFS+ High Sierra installation first so I at least got that going for me - I will remember to yank the Sonnet SSD with the OS X out before windows installation...

I really don't know why the bootcamp doesn't work. The last time I use the bootcamp apps is few years ago. Nowadays, if I want to install Windows, I will simply boot from the disc and start the installation.

Guess that will be my path from now on too

Dunno about that. In theory, it should be enough if you aren't stressing the GPU but my own experience makes me wonder. I have a Sapphire HD7950 with a reference design. It flashed without having to mess around with mcuc edits but that is where the problems started. The board itself has R9 280X written on it but the firmware loaded and the box it came in stated 7950. Before flashing both BIOSes ran, the second with higher fan speeds. After flashing, the second BIOS would cause my MacPro 5,1 not to boot. The flashed BIOS could not complete any benchmark applications without crashing. Also, the display would occasionally freeze coming out of sleep. I used a mini-6 to 8 and a mini-6 to 6 cable from the 2 video power ports on the logic board. It appears I might need to spread the load a bit.

Well I plan on tweaking the 970 GTX a bit now that I install windows. That way I got the possibility to OC

So this is the best option for double mini 6: https://www.moddiy.com/products/Apple-Dual-Mini-PCI%2dE-6%2dPin-to-Standard-PCI%2dE-8%2dPin-Video-Card-Cable.html

and for dual sata to 6-pin I got these two options right ???

1) https://www.ebay.com/itm/20cm-Dual-...309789&hash=item25e287d522:g:YvQAAOSwIFtaPLpi

2) https://www.moddiy.com/products/Dual-SATA-to-PCIE-6%2b2-Pin-Adapter-Cable-(16cm).html

 

[weckart]

Something is wrong here. 7950 is equivalent to R9 280, not R9 280X.

Without load sharing, some R9 280X can crash the cMP in some benchmarks. However, in your case, I doubt if it’s properly flashed.

Since the card should perform identical from both ROM (just no boot screen from the PC BIOS). You may try to boot from the PC BIOS and run some benchmarks. If the card can do that without crash, then it’s a badly flashed card.

This is the card. It is a Gigabyte. I confused it with the Sapphire HD5870 I also flashed and currently working in my MP.



After flashing, it will no longer boot from the second BIOS. My MacPro refuses to boot with it in, so I cannot run any benchmarks on that setting.

 

[h9826790]

This is the card. It is a Gigabyte. I confused it with the Sapphire HD5870 I also flashed and currently working in my MP.

View attachment 754821

After flashing, it will no longer boot from the second BIOS. My MacPro refuses to boot with it in, so I cannot run any benchmarks on that setting.

So, you flashed ROM number 1.

ROM number 1 can boot, with boot screen, but crash under stress.

And you didn’t touch ROM number 2.

But ROM number 2 stop working after ROM number 1 is flashed?

 

[weckart]

Correct

 

[h9826790]

Correct

This is completely out of my knowledge. ROM 2 should not be affected. I flashed many ROM on my R9 280. No matter the ROM image is good or not, as long as I didn’t write anything to ROM 2 position, that’s always bootable, and safe to use.

 

[weckart]

This is completely out of my knowledge. ROM 2 should not be affected. I flashed many ROM on my R9 280. No matter the ROM image is good or not, as long as I didn’t write anything to ROM 2 position, that’s always bootable, and safe to use.

I am wondering if the PCB numbering means have a Frankencard and the power setup I have for it is marginal so that it takes little for it to run out of juice. I still don't get why the problems only surfaced after flashing, though.

 

[h9826790]

I am wondering if the PCB numbering means have a Frankencard and the power setup I have for it is marginal so that it takes little for it to run out of juice. I still don't get why the problems only surfaced after flashing, though.

280X OC is a power hunger card, but rather than pulling not enough, it should be pulling too much and shut down your Mac (if outside the cMP’s power envelope).

The GPU has no idea how you power it. It won’t realise it’s inside a Mac Pro, then try to draw less, and eventually drawing not enough. As long as you connect all pins on the card, it will try to draw as much as required.

Also, it should not draw that much during boot. It only require lots of juice when under stress. Furthermore, for your ROM 2, there is nothing change (on power supply) after you flash the ROM 1. It shouldn’t be power issue (if the card always work before flash).

 

[weckart]

280X OC is a power hunger card, but rather than pulling not enough, it should be pulling too much and shut down your Mac (if outside the cMP’s power envelope).

This is what I mean by running out of juice. Particularly the crashing when I attempt to run any kind of benchmarking.

 

[h9826790]

This is what I mean by running out of juice. Particularly the crashing when I attempt to run any kind of benchmarking.

NO, completely different. Crash / glitches can means “not enough power for the card”, but not “pulling too much from the PSU”

In cMP and MacOS, “not enough power” won’t happen unless you flashed a firmware that has incorrect voltage setting. (Or something like the 6pin / 8pin cable is faulty e.g. poor connection in one of the 12V pin. But this is not the cMP’s fault)

On the other hand, with a correct ROM, it can “pull too much power and shutdown the Mac”. You should not see any crash / glitches, but shutdown straight away. This can happen within a second, too fast that almost impossible to notice any abnormalities on the screen (if there is any).

The reason is because the 980W PSU is powerful enough to drive your card. So, never “not enough power”. But once your card keep pulling and reach the predetermined limit (about 120W on each mini 6pin). The SMC will shutdown the Mac without any warning.

For example. Your card need 100W from the 8pin, and it try to pull 100W from the 8pin. Everything should be ops normal, no glitches, no crash.

But once your card need 130W from the 8pin. It will try to pull 130W. The cMP won’t limit the power available to 120W (no “not enough power to the card”), but let it draw full 130W. And once reach the SMC limit, the Mac Pro shut itself down straight away.

So, in your case, I don’t think it’s power issue.

If you never try to re-sit the card. I recommend you try that. If your card can work before flash. Something is wrong, but should not be the setup, or ROM 2.

Re-sit, and give the slot a good blow occasionally can clear some strange issue. Worth to try with virtually zero cost.