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AmazingPudding

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2018
21
1
I spent a couple hours in Sierra today with my RX 580 and it didn’t restart itself. I’m running macOS in a 240GB SATA 2 SSD in drive bay 2.
Thank you Jayson for this news about Sierra ! The new cMP's firmware you have is certainly the reason why you don't have problemls anymore under Sierra.

Faulty RX 580, return it while you can.
The strange thing is that the card works perfercly in my cMP 4,1 at home (same model of cMP than the one at work).
Works perfectly under Sierra, with old firmawre, and no problem under W10. Tried gaming yesterday, no problem.
Stressed it a lot too with FurMark under W10 and Sierra, with 2 screens no problem...

I have the card back at work today.
I try a new fresh install of sierra in the cMP 4,1 (with firmware 138.0.0.0.0). Let's see.
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,602
I try a new fresh install of sierra in the cMP 4,1 (with firmware 138.0.0.0.0). Let's see.

I have a hint that the problem may be related with the override-version Base_XX.

Apple started with Base_17 in February 2009 and continuously updated the hardware descriptor until the end of 2011 with Base_21 version. Since this compressed blob is stored in the private part of the NVRAM, firmware upgrades don't touch the file. Sensor resolution is directly tied with this. Maybe that's the motive for some having the fan problem and others not, I need people with the problem to test if it's related.
 

AmazingPudding

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2018
21
1
I have a hint that the problem may be related with the override-version Base_XX.

Apple started with Base_17 in February 2009 and continuously updated the hardware descriptor until the end of 2011 with Base_21 version. Since this compressed blob is stored in the private part of the NVRAM, firmware upgrades don't touch the file. Sensor resolution is directly tied with this. Maybe that's the motive for some having the fan problem and others not, I need people with the problem to test if it's related.
Well, tell me what info you're looking for (and maybe how to access it) and I'll be happy to give it to you.
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,602
Well, tell me what info you're looking for (and maybe how to access it) and I'll be happy to give it to you.

I need to upgrade your Base_XX to Base_21 (same as mid-2012) and you to test if the behaviour changed.

Do you know how to do a dump of your BootROM? You can use ROMTool.zip, SIP needs to be disabled (Boot with Recovery, open Terminal, run "csrutil disable" and reboot back). Please compress your dump and PM me it.
 

AmazingPudding

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2018
21
1
Well, with one monitor everything is running fine in a cMP 4,1.
I stressed the card with 3D stuff like fur mark, etc, or Valley (benchmark unigine) with everything at maximum.

Now let’s to see if I’ll have a problem with two screens…
Aaaaaaaand running same stuff but with two screens cause reboot…
By the way I use a new 8pin to dual mini6pin cable from modDIY.

Sadness…

I need to upgrade your Base_XX to Base_21 (same as mid-2012) and you to test if the behaviour changed.

Do you know how to do a dump of your BootROM? You can use ROMTool.zip, SIP needs to be disabled (Boot with Recovery, open Terminal, run "csrutil disable" and reboot back). Please compress your dump and PM me it.

By the BootROM you mean the SMC version of the cMP, isn't it ?
I'm afraid I'll have trouble then, because my SMC version will be different than my processor version...
--> I tried to put dual core (2x4) 4,1 processor into an original 5,1 cMP once : the system was capable to run, but all the fans of the cMP were at 100% all the time, without possibility to manage them. It was because the version of the processor was not the same than the SMC version of the Mac.
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,602
Well, with one monitor everything is running fine in a cMP 4,1.
I stressed the card with 3D stuff like fur mark, etc, or Valley (benchmark unigine) with everything at maximum.

Now let’s to see if I’ll have a problem with two screens…
Aaaaaaaand running same stuff but with two screens cause reboot…
By the way I use a new 8pin to dual mini6pin cable from modDIY.

Sadness…



By the BootROM you mean the SMC version of the cMP, isn't it ?
I'm afraid I'll have trouble then, because my SMC version will be different than my processor version...
--> I tried to put dual core (2x4) 4,1 processor into an original 5,1 cMP once : the system was capable to run, but all the fans of the cMP were at 100% all the time, without possibility to manage them. It was because the version of the processor was not the same than the SMC version of the Mac.
Not the SMC firmware, you can't dump it by software. Your BootROM firmware.
 

AmazingPudding

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2018
21
1
I already upgraded the BootROM :
I updated the firmware and BootROM a while ago so this cMP 4,1 can be see as a 5,1.
BootROM was then MP51.007F.B03.
I tried also MP51.0084.B00, then MP51.0089.B00, and I'm now with 138.0.0 as you can see :

Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro5,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 2,26 GHz
Number of Processors: 2
Total Number of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache (per Processor): 8 MB
Memory: 32 GB
Processor Interconnect Speed: 5,86 GT/s
Boot ROM Version: 138.0.0
SMC Version (system): 1.39f5
SMC Version (processor tray): 1.39f5

he problem occurred with all this 4 different BootROMs.

Or are we speaking of something else ?
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,602
I already upgraded the BootROM :
I updated the firmware and BootROM a while ago so this cMP 4,1 can be see as a 5,1.
BootROM was then MP51.007F.B03.
I tried also MP51.0084.B00, then MP51.0089.B00, and I'm now with 138.0.0 as you can see :

Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro5,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 2,26 GHz
Number of Processors: 2
Total Number of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache (per Processor): 8 MB
Memory: 32 GB
Processor Interconnect Speed: 5,86 GT/s
Boot ROM Version: 138.0.0
SMC Version (system): 1.39f5
SMC Version (processor tray): 1.39f5

Or are we speaking of something else ?
Yep, we are.

Simplifying a lot for easy understanding, the SPI memory flash has a little space (192KB) that is used for storing the NVRAM. The NVRAM has a dynamic and a static part. You can erase the dynamic one with a NVRAM reset. The static part you cannot.

When the logic boards are made, the factory flashes the SPI flash memory with the BootROM image. This image is unique to your Mac Pro. Every Mac has some hardware identifiers that are unique and a blob that describes the Mac ports and sensors. That is the hardware descriptor and is stored into the static part of the NVRAM just before the System Serial Number, Hardware Code and the System/Sales Order Number hardware identifiers.

So, every Mac Pro has a Base_XX blob that is flashed at the factory and never again updated. Apple used:

  • early-2009: Base_17, Base_18, Base_19
  • early-2009 B08: Base_20
  • mid-2010: Base_20 and Base_21, but most are Base_20
  • mid-2012: Base_21
Apple iterated continuously with each hardware descriptor release, but the major changes with sensor resolution and ports happened with Base_21.

Base_17 size is 14KB, Base_21 is ~14,5KB. I extracted and decompressed all versions from BootROM dumps:
 

Attachments

  • 2009_Base_17.bin.out.txt
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  • 2009_Base_18.bin.out.txt
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  • 2009_Base_19.bin.out.txt
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  • 2010_Base_20.bin.out.txt
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  • 2012_Base_21.bin.out.txt
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Last edited:

Jayson A

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 16, 2014
2,671
1,935
You guys are way over my head now.

Strange thing is, I upgraded to High Sierra which means my firmware was upgraded too right? Then, like I said before, I downgraded back to Sierra (on the same drive) and I started getting the restarts again.

Then I put Sierra on a separate SSD and put Windows on it's own SSD and haven't had a restart since. I can't really explain how it's any different from before, but like I said, I spent a couple of hours in Sierra yesterday because I was too lazy to reboot and I also spent a lot of time in Safari and nothing happened.
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,602
You guys are way over my head now.

Strange thing is, I upgraded to High Sierra which means my firmware was upgraded too right? Then, like I said before, I downgraded back to Sierra (on the same drive) and I started getting the restarts again.

Then I put Sierra on a separate SSD and put Windows on it's own SSD and haven't had a restart since. I can't really explain how it's any different from before, but like I said, I spent a couple of hours in Sierra yesterday because I was too lazy to reboot and I also spent a lot of time in Safari and nothing happened.
High Sierra had 5 firmware upgrades, from MP51.0083.B00 with 10.13DP5 to MP51.0089.B00 with 10.13.6, Mojave DP7 has 138.0.0.0.0.
 

Jayson A

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 16, 2014
2,671
1,935
High Sierra had 5 firmware upgrades, from MP51.0083.B00 with 10.13DP5 to MP51.0089.B00 with 10.13.6, Mojave DP7 has 138.0.0.0.0.

I switched back and forth within days though.

1. First Sierra install was on a 2-partition SSD with Sierra and Windows ... random restarts in Sierra
2. Upgraded straight to High Sierra (had to put my old card back in to do the firmware update) and didn't have any restarts
3. Erased my High Sierra partition and installed Sierra once again and had restarts within minutes.
4. Erased entire SSD and only put Windows on it and installed Sierra once again on it's own SSD drive (SATA 2) and haven't had a restart yet.

I'm pretty sure I kept the same firmware I had from the High Sierra install the entire time.
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,602
I switched back and forth within days though.

1. First Sierra install was on a 2-partition SSD with Sierra and Windows ... random restarts in Sierra
2. Upgraded straight to High Sierra (had to put my old card back in to do the firmware update) and didn't have any restarts
3. Erased my High Sierra partition and installed Sierra once again and had restarts within minutes.
4. Erased entire SSD and only put Windows on it and installed Sierra once again on it's own SSD drive (SATA 2) and haven't had a restart yet.

I'm pretty sure I kept the same firmware I had from the High Sierra install the entire time.
Just check, System Information > Hardware > BootROM version.

Screen Shot 2018-09-03 at 12.40.15.png
 

crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,847
1,957
Charlotte, NC
@Jayson A

It would be a lot simpler and much more helpful if you could just dump your current BootRom and let @tsialex check it for errors / updates. He's not talking about firmware upgrades you have done. He is able to upgrade a part of the firmware that you have no access to. It MAY fix or lead to a fix for you. In any case, it can't hurt, it can only help.
 

AmazingPudding

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2018
21
1
@Jayson A

It would be a lot simpler and much more helpful if you could just dump your current BootRom and let @tsialex check it for errors / updates. He's not talking about firmware upgrades you have done. He is able to upgrade a part of the firmware that you have no access to. It MAY fix or lead to a fix for you. In any case, it can't hurt, it can only help.
I'm off work for today, but will do that for sure tomorrow.

Thx for the explanation tsialex!

---
EDIT : Hello @tsialex, here is the dump of the cMP's 4,1 BootROM :
 
Last edited:
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halfloaf

macrumors newbie
Oct 26, 2016
17
12
Somerset, UK
If you can't get an EFI GPU in anyway, we can circumvent the need for one with ROMTool.

1) Disable SIP
2) Dump your BootROM with ROMDump
3) Compress and PM me your BootROM dump
4) I'll extract your Mac Pro identifiers from the BootROM and insert on 138.0.0.0.0
5) Put your Mac Pro in Flashing Programming Mode
6) Upgrade your BootROM with ROMTool

Just an update, my flashed Zotac GTX 680 was the card that died before I bought the RX 580, it gave me graphics glitches and kernel panics. It was dead in the water to me so today I thought, lets try the oven trick. And sure as hell, I stuck it in the over on some balled foil at 195 degrees C for 5min and I have a working card again! I'm not convinced it's going to last to be honest as I suspect on of the BGA ram chips has got some dodgy and old solder. The card failed under a stress session so the additional heat may have popped one of the solder balls. I think the oven session just connected the solder ball to the pcb again. I'll hang onto it for any future bootscreen requirements.

I wouldn't do this again unless I knew the card was heading for the dumpster.

But other than that I've had no restarts on HS after the bootrom flash. Thanks to all the advice here, much appreciated.
 
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parisinvest

macrumors 6502
Dec 24, 2017
263
19
Paris
if you want to be sure, tear it down in pieces your mac pro, and reput them in, tear it down again, reput it again, after three times, you will know everything in your mac pro and keep them in mind, you will be able to fix the problem yourself like a pro in genius bar, and most important, you won't have any fear again to face these problem, you will find out that your mac pro is strang and resisted as others'.
 

AmazingPudding

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2018
21
1
Hello everybody,

I finally had the time to do flahsthe BootRom of the cMP 4,1, using the BootRom @tsialex kindly modified for me.
Saddyl, after the BootRom flash, the cMP had a reboot again with the RX580... Even if now it's uopgraded to Base_21...

The reboot occured under Sierra. Didn't have the time to try under High Sierra. Now this cMP is used by a client for at least a month...

But I have other ones (cMP original 5,1).
 

Jayson A

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 16, 2014
2,671
1,935
Hello everybody,

I finally had the time to do flahsthe BootRom of the cMP 4,1, using the BootRom @tsialex kindly modified for me.
Saddyl, after the BootRom flash, the cMP had a reboot again with the RX580... Even if now it's uopgraded to Base_21...

The reboot occured under Sierra. Didn't have the time to try under High Sierra. Now this cMP is used by a client for at least a month...

But I have other ones (cMP original 5,1).

I’m hoping to save up for a real PC to put my 580 in and let my Mac go back to just being a Mac with a Radeon 5770.
 

MarkC426

macrumors 68040
May 14, 2008
3,700
2,097
UK
Sounds like your letting it beat you........:p
Still don’t understand why people are getting these restarts though?
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,602
Sounds like your letting it beat you........:p
Still don’t understand why people are getting these restarts though?
I really want to know what's causing the restarts and the crazy fan behaviour. Seems related with power.
 

bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,313
2,713
Was not getting restarts when testing with Sapphire PULSE RX 580 8GB with 10.13.6 17G65 on authentic 5,1 with dual 3.46, 128GB RAM, and boot ROM MP51.0089.B00. No HDDs inside the system. Only SSDs, PCIe SSDs (via Apricorn Velocity Solo X2 and Duo X2 SATA adapters), and PCIe USB (during test).

GPU was powered via this dual mini 6-pin to standard 8-pin cable:
https://www.moddiy.com/products/App...tandard-PCI%2dE-8%2dPin-Video-Card-Cable.html

Ran GPU and application tests for about 8-10 hours total before shutdown with Sapphire PULSE RX 580 8GB and did not encounter restarts.

If anyone has a spinning HDD in your system AND is encountering random restarts, try removing the spinning HDD and see if that helps the issue at all. Only other thing I suspect right now is it may be related to the Mojave beta firmware.
 

Matty_TypeR

macrumors 6502a
Oct 1, 2016
641
555
UK
I have had no issues with this Radom fan behaviour using the RX580 pulse 8gb. they spin up on start up to then sit idle and then when under load they spin up to cool, then return to idle again. I ran valley for 5 hours continuously on my original boot rom, I have since done the exact same thing on tsialex modded boot rom, with NVMe as OSX drive and still never had a random restart.

I wonder if all these dual 6pin mini to 8 pin cables are born equal. this is the cable I purchased. not the cheapest I know, but it is 18wg

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132763006769?ViewItem=&item=132763006769
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,602
Was not getting restarts when testing with Sapphire PULSE RX 580 8GB with 10.13.6 17G65 on authentic 5,1 with dual 3.46, 128GB RAM, and boot ROM MP51.0089.B00. No HDDs inside the system. Only SSDs, PCIe SSDs (via Apricorn Velocity Solo X2 and Duo X2 SATA adapters), and PCIe USB (during test).

GPU was powered via this dual mini 6-pin to standard 8-pin cable:
https://www.moddiy.com/products/Apple-Dual-Mini-PCI%2dE-6%2dPin-to-Standard-PCI%2dE-8%2dPin-Video-Card-Cable.html

Ran GPU and application tests for about 8-10 hours total before shutdown with Sapphire PULSE RX 580 8GB and did not encounter restarts.

If anyone has a spinning HDD in your system AND is encountering random restarts, try removing the spinning HDD and see if that helps the issue at all. Only other thing I suspect right now is it may be related to the Mojave beta firmware.
I don't think it's related with 138.0.0.0.0, people has been restarting and with crazy fan behaviour for a long time before Mojave. Now we're finding that some BootROMs have problems, but even after those are corrected the restarts and fan behaviour continues.
 
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Jayson A

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 16, 2014
2,671
1,935
I have had no issues with this Radom fan behaviour using the RX580 pulse 8gb. they spin up on start up to then sit idle and then when under load they spin up to cool, then return to idle again. I ran valley for 5 hours continuously on my original boot rom, I have since done the exact same thing on tsialex modded boot rom, with NVMe as OSX drive and still never had a random restart.

I wonder if all these dual 6pin mini to 8 pin cables are born equal. this is the cable I purchased. not the cheapest I know, but it is 18wg

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132763006769?ViewItem=&item=132763006769

I tried to power the card 2 different ways.
 
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