MP 7,1 Mac Pro 8.1 - WHAT IF...

[goMac]

The Mac mini is an extremely unpopular computer. It's basically the Mac for people who don't want to buy a MacBook Air because they want a desktop, but also don't want an iMac.

Outside of uses in server rooms, thats like two people. At least the Mac Pro actually has a niche.

 

[fuchsdh]

The Mac mini is an extremely unpopular computer. It's basically the Mac for people who don't want to buy a MacBook Air because they want a desktop, but also don't want an iMac.

Outside of uses in server rooms, thats like two people. At least the Mac Pro actually has a niche.

[citation needed]

The idea that Apple sells ten times more $6K and up computers than their entry-level machine at $699 beggars belief. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

[jeanlain]

The Mac mini is an extremely unpopular computer. It's basically the Mac for people who don't want to buy a MacBook Air because they want a desktop, but also don't want an iMac.

Outside of uses in server rooms, thats like two people. At least the Mac Pro actually has a niche.

Anecdote, but I've seen much more Mac minis than Mac Pros.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Proof that the numbers are correct, the Mac Pro sells so well they cannot keep it in stock...

I think they only produce them on demand because they don't sell very many. They manufactured my 7,1 after it was ordered.

 

[deconstruct60]

The Mac mini is an extremely unpopular computer. It's basically the Mac for people who don't want to buy a MacBook Air because they want a desktop, but also don't want an iMac.

Err. B&H Photo's allows you to sort all of Apple's Desktops in order by best sellers.

All Mac Desktops | B&H Photo Video

Your source for All Mac Desktops from top brands like Apple. Visit us for the most up-to-date product information, and best pricing.

www.bhphotovideo.com

Mac Pro isn't even on the first 10 pages!!!! That isn't a "happen to respond to the survey" sampling. This is likely a direct peak into B&H sales throughput straight from the database. It isn't a sales sampling on voluntary response ... it is just sales.

Amazon .... because they are a "nobody" retailer who doesn't keep accurate data. *cough* Not.

Top 100 Desktops in sales volume. Not Apple systems ... top 100.

Amazon Best Sellers: Best Desktop Computers

Discover the best Desktop Computers in Best Sellers. Find the top 100 most popular items in Amazon Electronics Best Sellers.

www.amazon.com

#26 Mac Mini M1
#83 Mac Mini M1

no other Apple Macs in the top 100 in sales. None. To be fair Amazon doesn't appear to sell the MP 2019. That is actually relatively immaterial supposedly the iMac was suppose to completely 'blow up' the Mini sales.



Bestbuy. Desktop Macs ... order by best selling....

Mac Desktops - Best Buy

Shop Best Buy for Apple desktop and all-in-one computers, including the iMac, Mac mini and Mac Studio models.

www.bestbuy.com

#1 is an iMac. The Intel 27" iMac that Apple somehow thinks 'nobody' wants. Upgradable RAM. 27" screen. as opposed to the iPad on a stick 24" model.

#2 Mini Intel

#3 iMac M1 $1,299

#4 Mini M1 $699




Microcenter Mac desktops

Apple Desktops : Micro Center

Microcenter.com has the best deals on Desktop Computers and PCs from brands you can trust like PowerSpec, HP, Dell, and more all available at your local Micro Center Computer Store!

www.microcenter.com

#1 iMac M1 $1299 model

#2 Mini M1 $699 model

#3 Mini M1 $ 899 model


Factor in price of a new screen and two lowest cost Mini are pretty much where standard economic theory says they will be ( lower price options have more buyers )



The Intel Mini when it was crippled by no decent GPU was a horrible seller. Is the Mini sagging in July-September because the other two that got M1's at the same time got updates and the Mini didn't because Apple is in Rip Van
Winkle mode. Probably, "Osborne Effect". That is likely coupled to how the MacBook Pro in same survey beat the MBA. MBP 13" got an update for far longer in that quarter than the MBA did.


Apple got to 50% of sales being Apple Silicon with just the M1 MBA , MBP 13" , Mini , and iMac in the first two quarters after introduction. Even Apple explicitly at the M2 intro the MBS and MBP 13" are their two best selling Macs.

Outside of uses in server rooms, thats like two people. At least the Mac Pro actually has a niche.

If Apple would just put a M2 Pro in a Mini it would be even less 'niche' . The Mini is being sold against mainstream desktops with 1650 3050 , 3060 , 6600 , etc. M1's GPU is good again laptop iGPUs but it has limits. and common CPU core count in desktops is past 4P cores. Again actually address one of the major impediment issues they have ignored for decade or so. No need for a thinner case that has been approved by the thinness politburo . Just put a better system in the 1/2 empty case already got.

The MBA is the best selling Mac that Apple has ... it isn't mostly because people are mainly after the lightest laptop. They are largely after the most affordable one. Price matters. [ Also major reason why Apple bungled 12 mini , 13 mini and now 14 Plus iPhone ... price and value proposition matters. ]

 

[deconstruct60]

I simply do not believe it, either they switched the figures with the mini, or someone has been drinking the cool aid, big time.

Can see from the write ups around that graph in various places that it is based upon the "respondents to the survey said". The results are only as good as the statistical sampling they did. If more Mac Pro people pick up the phone than Mini folks do then results skew. If their sample size is too small it gets even worse.

Those could be the numbers they collected, but that doesn't mean they collected accurate numbers. They are not tracking sales directly. They are trying to get random people to talk to them.

 

[goMac]

[citation needed]

The idea that Apple sells ten times more $6K and up computers than their entry-level machine at $699 beggars belief. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

People buy laptops as entry level machines these days.

When the Mac mini was introduced, it was still a desktop era. The Mac mini was aimed at replacing PC desktops.

But these days there are barely any consumer desktop PCs to replace. And everyone buys laptops. The entry level desktop is basically dead industry wide. People buy laptops as their consumer PC (or Mac.)

 

[innerproduct]

Fun fact: I rent a small room in a shared office in a “high end” building in my city. All rooms are quite small. I had the intention to sit there and work on a PC workstation (in addition to my mbp16 max daily driver). But in the end, it didn’t work out because my room got so hot from the almost constantly running nvidia gpus, (dual rtx a4000 in this case). I got a reduced price on the room while the ventilation was investigated.
In the end in turned out that everything was up to standards and that nothing in the whole building was dimensioned for that kind of heat generation! That is, not dimensioned for stationary computers with som grunt. Checked around and everybody else was just using laptops with large external screens.
So, basically, noone is expected to work stationary anymore in the mind of most folks.
Downstairs an architect firm rented the whole floor and since they also use desktops, they had similar problems but I don’t know how that turned out in the end.
It would be really interesting to know the actual numbers of mac pros and studios apple sells.

 

[maikerukun]

Fun fact: I rent a small room in a shared office in a “high end” building in my city. All rooms are quite small. I had the intention to sit there and work on a PC workstation (in addition to my mbp16 max daily driver). But in the end, it didn’t work out because my room got so hot from the almost constantly running nvidia gpus, (dual rtx a4000 in this case). I got a reduced price on the room while the ventilation was investigated.
In the end in turned out that everything was up to standards and that nothing in the whole building was dimensioned for that kind of heat generation! That is, not dimensioned for stationary computers with som grunt. Checked around and everybody else was just using laptops with large external screens.
So, basically, noone is expected to work stationary anymore in the mind of most folks.
Downstairs an architect firm rented the whole floor and since they also use desktops, they had similar problems but I don’t know how that turned out in the end.
It would be really interesting to know the actual numbers of mac pros and studios apple sells.

that's just plain ridiculous. But then again, I don't doubt it.

Personally I will take a maxed desktop over a maxed laptop any day of the week. "That said I will give up neither lol".

 

[maikerukun]

wow

View attachment 2140037

Im shocked that Mac Pro sales are 11%! That is huge!

I do wonder if we will all be waiting for the m3 extreme version, and if so, skipping the m2 gimped ultra version might make sense for a lot of people. Disappointing.

Fam if those numbers are even remotely correct...that's crazy!

That said, it does make a lot of sense, When you think about it, the 2019 Mac Pro was HYPED LIKE CRAZY via 100's of tech YouTubers "myself included" and I wouldn't be shocked if all of iJustine and MKBHD's minions went out and picked one up, let alone all the companies and studios that did "again, myself included", and hobbyists and whatnot...so it honestly wouldn't shock me. Hell you can get one right now in the mid range for only $6k if you go to the refurb section on Apple's website so I'm sure they're STILL selling very well.

And anybody that was waiting for the next big thing and saw the Mac Studio wasn't able to even come close when it came to GPU likely said F it and picked on up too. Pretty crazy though!

 

[maikerukun]

I really hope the entire motherboard itself is replaceable.

Given the prices of the wheels and the stand for the Pro Display XDR, versus the presumably relatively cheap price of the Ultra-class SoC, you can assume that the 8.1 case itself is potentially more expensive than the computer inside it.

I hope that going from M2 Ultra to an eventual M3 Ultra will not require a lot of people to purchase their 3rd identical giant (beautiful) lump of machined aluminium.

I gotta say, it'll be weird replacing my EXACT SAME CHASSIS with the EXACT SAME CHASSIS lololol.

 

[vinegarshots]

Fam if those numbers are even remotely correct...that's crazy!

That said, it does make a lot of sense, When you think about it, the 2019 Mac Pro was HYPED LIKE CRAZY via 100's of tech YouTubers "myself included" and I wouldn't be shocked if all of iJustine and MKBHD's minions went out and picked one up, let alone all the companies and studios that did "again, myself included", and hobbyists and whatnot...so it honestly wouldn't shock me. Hell you can get one right now in the mid range for only $6k if you go to the refurb section on Apple's website so I'm sure they're STILL selling very well.

And anybody that was waiting for the next big thing and saw the Mac Studio wasn't able to even come close when it came to GPU likely said F it and picked on up too. Pretty crazy though!

Of course they're not even remotely correct.

Look at it this way-- total Mac shipments in 2021 were estimated to be around 30 million.

Supposedly Mac Pro is 11% of Macs sold, so 11% of 30 million is around 3,300,000 Mac Pros. 🤣
Now, let's say ALL of the Mac Pros were the $6K base model. That's 19 billion dollars worth of Mac Pros. 😅😆
Or, let's assume that all of the Mac Pros were $10K configurations. That's 33 billion dollars worth of Mac Pros. 😁

The math just doesn't add up in the slightest.

 

[MisterAndrew]

I agree. That 11% figure is an error. It's probably 0.11%.

I read an article about how Apple staged the presidential visit to the Mac Pro assembly plant to make it look like they were selling like hotcakes, when in fact they were not. Apple has scaled back plans on the M2 Mac Pro because the current model isn't selling very well. There isn't very much demand for such an expensive machine. But they want the product to be a success, so they're going to lower the price. Of course that means it'll no longer be assembled in the USA and it will have less expansion capabilities.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

I agree. That 11% figure is an error. It's probably 0.11%.

I read an article about how Apple staged the presidential visit to the Mac Pro assembly plant to make it look like they were selling like hotcakes, when in fact they were not. Apple has scaled back plans on the M2 Mac Pro because the current model isn't selling very well. There isn't very much demand for such an expensive machine. But they want the product to be a success, so they're going to lower the price. Of course that means it'll no longer be assembled in the USA and it will have less expansion capabilities.

Yes, Trump tweeted about the event and (in his universe) seemingly opened the factory - despite it originally being built in 2013.

Trump took credit for opening a Mac factory. It’s been open since 2013.

An Austin facility that makes Apple's top-of-the-line computers wasn't Trump's handiwork.

www.washingtonpost.com

I'm surprised he didn't caption the photograph "I like Mac a lot I think he's a helluva guy - tremendous - I happened to know him personally and think he's doing a spectacular job. Thank you, Tim Apple."

 

[macguru9999]

Can see from the write ups around that graph in various places that it is based upon the "respondents to the survey said". The results are only as good as the statistical sampling they did. If more Mac Pro people pick up the phone than Mini folks do then results skew. If their sample size is too small it gets even worse.

Those could be the numbers they collected, but that doesn't mean they collected accurate numbers. They are not tracking sales directly. They are trying to get random people to talk to them.

If anyone can show me server farms full of Mac Pros (2019 intel) and some reliable stats I would love to see them. Like did Disney render avatar on them ? But based on my personal experience they have a very limited market.

 

[Boil]

I gotta say, it'll be weird replacing my EXACT SAME CHASSIS with the EXACT SAME CHASSIS lololol.

Place them on either side of the desk; Good/Evil, Angel/Devil, Jedi/Sith, etc./etc. ...

I agree. That 11% figure is an error. It's probably 0.11%.

Apple has scaled back plans on the M2 Mac Pro because the current model isn't selling very well. There isn't very much demand for such an expensive machine.

Apple halted plans for the M2 Extreme, most likely due to issues with the 4-way interconnect, not because the outgoing Intel model was not selling well...

And why would it...? Excepting those facilities buying some up to shore up their Intel Mac Pro resources or individuals wanting to get the "last great Intel Mac Pro", I would think many are waiting to see what the first gen ASi Mac Pro brings us...?

But they want the product to be a success, so they're going to lower the price. Of course that means it'll no longer be assembled in the USA and it will have less expansion capabilities.

Zero need to lower the price, and if they are using the same chassis, why would they switch to offshore machining & assembly...? Just gonna eat the cost of moving an entire facility halfway around the world and training a whole new batch of workers (in which there would also be a language barrier)...?

None of that makes any sense...

 

[seek3r]

The Mac mini is an extremely unpopular computer. It's basically the Mac for people who don't want to buy a MacBook Air because they want a desktop, but also don't want an iMac.

Outside of uses in server rooms, thats like two people. At least the Mac Pro actually has a niche.

lolwut? Minis are all over the place, they're *super* popular. They're used as desktops, they're used as workstations, they're used as lab machines, they're used as build boxes, they're even used in things like signage sometimes. And the M1 machines, even now 2 years and change post-release, are crazy fast and consume so little power that they're great buys. Hell, my base mini with only 8GB of RAM even handles gaming surprisingly well. Add in Asahi working really well and they're even great little ARM linux machines for desktop or light server duty

 

[vinegarshots]

Zero need to lower the price, and if they are using the same chassis, why would they switch to offshore machining & assembly...? Just gonna eat the cost of moving an entire facility halfway around the world and training a whole new batch of workers (in which there would also be a language barrier)...?

None of that makes any sense...

Apple already moved their Europe Mac Pro assembly to China ages ago.

Apple’s ‘Assembled in USA’ Mac Pro is made in China for international customers - 9to5Mac

It’s been an interesting journey for Apple as it has figured out its manufacturing plans for the new Mac Pro....

9to5mac.com

 

[Boil]

Apple already moved their Europe Mac Pro assembly to China ages ago.

Apple’s ‘Assembled in USA’ Mac Pro is made in China for international customers - 9to5Mac

It’s been an interesting journey for Apple as it has figured out its manufacturing plans for the new Mac Pro....

9to5mac.com

For international customers, which means there is still 7.1 Mac Pro assembly/manufacturing/production right here in the United States; but yeah, spread more disinformation...

 

[vinegarshots]

For international customers, which means there is still 7.1 Mac Pro assembly/manufacturing/production right here in the United States; but yeah, spread more disinformation...

What are you on about? To spread disinformation, I'd have to post something that was false. Apple has Mac Pro manufacturing set up in China, and if they were actually producing them in high volume, they'd probably shift the US units there as well. Because money.

 

[edanuff]

In the spirit of citing data, here are the highest quality publicly available sources on the subject:

IDC - Worldwide PC Shipments Q3 22 (Estimates 10M Macs in Q3)
IDC - Worldwide PC Shipments Q4 22 (Estimates 7.5M Macs in Q4, 28.6M for Year)
Gartner - Worldwide PC Shipments Q3 22 (Estimates 6M units in Q3)
Gartner - Worldwide PC Shipments Q4 22 (Estimates 7M units in Q4)
Apple Financial Statement Quarter Ended September 24, 2022 (Breaks out Macs, $11B sold in Quarter)
HP Inc. Fiscal 2022 Full Year and Fourth Quarter Results (Breaks out Workstations, $535M sold in Quarter)

The free linkable sources don't break out desktop versus laptop but we don't actually need that for our purposes. Based on the data cited here, the average selling price of a Mac is somewhere in the range of $1500 (plus or minus $400). Assuming that, then for every Mac Pro you sell, you have to sell at least 10 more MacBook Airs or Mac Minis to hold that average, using entry level list prices, discounts notwithstanding. In order for the math to work, the higher end systems must be a low single digit percentage of the totals. That's just the law of large numbers. As mentioned previously, if CIRP was correct and 11% of Macs sold were Mac Pros, Apple would be outselling HP Z workstations by an order of magnitude. I don't understand how CIRP reaches their conclusions and would suggest that Max Tech and the others not quote that report further until this is clarified.

 

[goMac]

lolwut? Minis are all over the place, they're *super* popular. They're used as desktops, they're used as workstations, they're used as lab machines, they're used as build boxes, they're even used in things like signage sometimes. And the M1 machines, even now 2 years and change post-release, are crazy fast and consume so little power that they're great buys. Hell, my base mini with only 8GB of RAM even handles gaming surprisingly well. Add in Asahi working really well and they're even great little ARM linux machines for desktop or light server duty

I see them as build boxes and.... that's about it.

I literally don't know anyone who's bought one as a consumer. Do you? Anyone in your family have a Mini? Any friends have a Mini? Have you seen a Mini actually on someones desk in the last 5 years? Cause I have not.

I'm the only one I know who has a Mini and mine isn't even on a desk. It sits as a server in the basement.

 

[AlphaCentauri]

My music studio runs on one, but this is anecdotal

I was planning to buy 7.1 instead back then (2020), but didn’t want to spend that kind of money on Intel Mac when AS models were “just around the corner” and I needed new DAW, so I went with Intel Mini.

 

[Mac3Duser]

Personally, I would like Apple to communicate as soon as possible on mac pro 8.1... the way of leaking information about which we really don't know much does not bring us anything.
When you want to plan to buy a machine like this, you need to know more about the technology. Same thing for windows 11 support (which is already not native on 7.1 so we can assume that the AMD RX 7900 will not be 7.1 compatible) and external GPUs.
Apple should make a keynote quickly devoted to Apple Silicon chips and the mac Pro (as well as the replacement for the mac mini intel).

 

[Boil]

What is the magic number of available units before Tim decides to announce the first gen Apple silicon Mac Pro...?