MP 7,1 Mac Pro 8.1 - WHAT IF...

[mattspace]

But you are right...no denying that these companies get bought up and disappear...but I do think certain companies get purchased and left to their own devices for the most part. Beats by Dre being an example.

Yeah, though I suspect they allow the headphone business to continue, having bought the company for the software / streaming platform.

I think a large part of them buying Beats, rather than trying to make it from scratch, is because they wanted the urban, ethnically diverse market Beats served (Apple being whiter than the Renaissance's depreciation of polychromery in sculpture), without being seen to compete with a company that had a prominent black founder - hence not buying B&O or any of the other high end audio companies.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

There is just no one left at apple that is excited, has a vision, and has the juice to make people do stuff.

To me it is HILLARIOUS that you have a company and you have wandering snowflakes that tell you "I dont feel like working on Aperture". Um, how about **** and do the job.

Man, I love a world where I tell my employer, yea, you know, I don't feel like working on something you need, and am going to go over here in a corner and play with my red stapler for a decade or so waiting for my options to vest. Insanity. Jobs would have fired them all.

But more importantly, Jobs would have said, see that mountain, we're going there! And got people excited about it. And everyone rowing in the same direction and loving it! None of that exists there anymore as far as I can tell. And it's sad.

 

[Boil]

Apple should do a deal with Pixar like Unity did with Weta Digital, then make a macOS DCC variant of the Pixar pipeline...

 

[Boil]

RE: Shake / Motion / Phenomenon

Wasn't Shake a 2D compositor in an industry shifting to 3D compositing, of which Nuke was the "new hawtness"; and something about the Shake code base not really suitable for a major overhaul...?

Apple bought Shake, killed off the Windows variant, and offered lifetime licenses (unlimited seats...?) & source code (basically, we're gonna stop developing this software, but if you want you code monkeys to work on it pay this one-time fee; oh, and not-for-resale, thanks...) to the "big studios" that were on the Linux variant at the time...?

Then they went ahead and integrated what they wanted into FCP (Motion), there were rumors of a "next-gen" compositing app code-named Phenomenon, but nothing ever became of that...?

I dunno, I am just a 3D/VFX aficionado who has read too many issues of Cinefex & other assorted 3D/DCC/VFX publications in the past...

 

[jujoje]

Apple is where purchased technologies go to die.

I think you spelt the Foundry wrong.

That's Apple's big problem - there's no internal tech strategy. Everything in the company survives on the willingness of individuals to work on it.

Generally agree, I think that's the main issue generally with Apple and Pro Apps; the have no cohesive idea of how to get it to work together. They bought Shake, had no idea what to do with it, discontinued it. Got Mari running on the Mac Pro then neglected OpenGL until the Mac was unsupportable (and is still on an OpenGL/CL version from 2013). Discontinued Aperture for Photos etc

That said, a bit more sanguine these days, since they actually have a dedicated pro apps team, so hopefully behind the scenes there's a bit more cohesion.

 

[jujoje]

RE: Shake / Motion / Phenomenon

Wasn't Shake a 2D compositor in an industry shifting to 3D compositing, of which Nuke was the "new hawtness"; and something about the Shake code base not really suitable for a major overhaul...?

Was just about to mention your idea of Phenomenon

Feel Nuke probably would have invariably overtaken Shake even if Apple didn't discontinue it. Ironically feel we're in the same situation where Nuke is becoming staid and needs competition to force it to modernise.

Apple should do a deal with Pixar like Unity did with Weta Digital, then make a macOS DCC variant of the Pixar pipeline

Already part of the way there with their (slightly jank)) support for USD.

 

[prefuse07]

There is just no one left at apple that is excited, has a vision, and has the juice to make people do stuff.

To me it is HILLARIOUS that you have a company and you have wandering snowflakes that tell you "I dont feel like working on Aperture". Um, how about **** and do the job.

Man, I love a world where I tell my employer, yea, you know, I don't feel like working on something you need, and am going to go over here in a corner and play with my red stapler for a decade or so waiting for my options to vest. Insanity. Jobs would have fired them all.

But more importantly, Jobs would have said, see that mountain, we're going there! And got people excited about it. And everyone rowing in the same direction and loving it! None of that exists there anymore as far as I can tell. And it's sad.

Adding even more fuel to this fire -- apparently a LOT of executives are departing now, or within the very short future. Some others are also reportedly reducing their footprint, instead of getting promoted, they are stepping into less-involved roles.

Things like that^ make me worry about what they will become when all of the Jobs era employees are gone. It felt like a massive hit when Ive left...

Things like this or this for example --- It just makes me sad seeing all of their potential go to waste. That massive slush fund, just sitting there.... literally collecting dust.

Just imagine what innovations they could give the whole world, if they were still the apple of old... Don't think I am singing the nostalgia tune either, *ahem* deconstruct, I am just saying that with the amount of cash they have, and their market cap, they literally could have their R&D group on overdrive making insane machines, even if it doesn't turn a profit right away -- and they could afford to do so.

With their market standing, they literally could be shaking up the world, while still turning a profit with iPhones and whatever else the sheep need to buy.

Hope this discussion keeps going, this thread is super interesting!

 

[mattspace]

Just imagine what innovations they could give the whole world, if they were still the apple of old... Don't think I am singing the nostalgia tune either, *ahem* deconstruct, I am just saying that with the amount of cash they have, and their market cap, they literally could have their R&D group on overdrive making insane machines, even if it doesn't turn a profit right away -- and they could afford to do so.

It's the Monopolist's Malaise - the company is settled into rent-seeking, and progress will be rationed.

Imagine the innovations the world could have, if Apple were banned from any form of product tying between their hardware, software & services, via mandated use of openly documented interfaces at every point.

 

[PineappleCake]

You know I am happy that Apple won't be able to survive on the iPhone for long. It has brought them laziness and greed.

The only part of Apple that is innovating are their Chip team led by an engineer.

You have a visionary at your helm like Steve, you get the iPhone and iPod. You have a engineer like Jonny you get M1.

People like Tim Cook get charge you $200 for 8GB of RAM and an iPhone that gets pitiful upgrades each year, things that Androids had years ago.

 

[mattspace]

You have a visionary at your helm like Steve, you get the iPhone and iPod. You have a engineer like Jonny you get M1.

And folks forget that the iPod was just a collection of off-the-shelf third-party parts, put into a pretty box - the very thing that some would now say Apple shouldn't be.

It was a hard drive that had been invented, and was sitting around with the manufacturer unsure as to what to do with it - too large for camera Microdrive, too small for Laptops. Off-the-shelf embedded operating system, iTunes - a third party app SoundJam re-skinned.

But that was Steve's mission - not building the whole widget and controlling everything, but building a premium packaging of the best the whole industry has to offer.

 

[prefuse07]

And folks forget that the iPod was just a collection of off-the-shelf third-party parts, put into a pretty box - the very thing that some would now say Apple shouldn't be.

It was a hard drive that had been invented, and was sitting around with the manufacturer unsure as to what to do with it - too large for camera Microdrive, too small for Laptops. Off-the-shelf embedded operating system, iTunes - a third party app SoundJam re-skinned.

But that was Steve's mission - not building the whole widget and controlling everything, but building a premium packaging of the best the whole industry has to offer.

and to top it off, he had a great Design lead/team and worked in unisom with them, instead of dictating -- profits profits profits!

And this is one of the reasons why I love my 7,1 so much -- I feel like it was Ive's last gift to apple (and the world) before disembarking.

 

[PineappleCake]

and to top it off, he had a great Design lead/team and worked in unisom with them, instead of dictating -- profits profits profits!

And this is one of the reasons why I love my 7,1 so much -- I feel like it was Ive's last gift to apple (and the world) before disembarking.

The man designed the some pretty machines iPhone 4, iPhone X, 2016 MBP and 2019 Mac Pro and iMac

And my favorite the Apple Watch Series 4. It truly looked like the best smartwatch IMO.

Still looks great to this day.

You know Ive is great designer but he got saddled with Tim Cook. Only Cook can ride out the butterfly keyboard saga for 4 years.

 

[mattspace]

You know Ive is great designer but he got saddled with Tim Cook. Only Cook can ride out the butterfly keyboard saga for 4 years.

Another interpretation might be that he's not that great a designer - that what he designed was good when he had Jobs directing him, and what he designed without Jobs has been pretty forgettable. IIRC Marc Newson was co designer on the Apple Watch.

 

[innerproduct]

Seriously, Ive was what took Apple design the next level. We can only speculate in the dynamics the team. What is clear is that the few new designs mostly looks back. In a way like Star Wars episode vii. It think it understands the formula of yore, emulates and gets **** wrong. Can we please have the Mac Pro now!? 😂

 

[kiiso]

What is clear is that the few new designs mostly looks back. In a way like Star Wars episode vii.

Wow! Super precise, on point! 👌😂

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Apple is bloated fat and lazy. The reality is FEW people there do things. That's why you get a roving team of awesome developers go, make something, then abandon it because they are needed elsewhere. The rest seems a do-nothing bureaucracy has taken hold of way too much of apple like a cancer. It's like the CIA handbook on how to destroy a compan is apples current company manual.

I think Apple should purge like 3/4s of its employees and I bet you they would be far more innovative and productive. Right now they are fat, lazy, sedentary and mired in banality and cant produce (with the exception of the chip devision).

I do get the feeling if Jobs were around, he would have purged a lot of Apple. He was beyond keenly focused on only having A players, and the tiny band of roving developers that work on one thing then dump it clearly shows there are not enough of them, IMO.

 

[jmho]

I think it's almost the opposite, at least on the software side (which is the only one I know about). The few people I know who work at Apple are absolutely world-class, and I don't think I've ever met or interacted with a developer at Apple who didn't come off as incredibly competent.

I know there is an impression that everyone in Silicon Valley is just sitting around designing new emojis and playing in a giant ball-pool, but I get the impression that Apple really is doing an incredible amount of work for its size.

The trouble is that Apple are literally trying to completely re-invent several wheels simultaneously. They're literally trying to do the entire jobs of Intel, AMD, nVidia, Microsoft, and several other gigantic hardware and software companies all at once.

If anything I'd like to see them increase their developer count massively so they can actually fix all their incredibly buggy software, which seems mostly to be buggy because they don't have the people to fix things, rather than the developers they do have being bad or lazy.

 

[mode11]

They're literally trying to do the entire jobs of Intel, AMD, nVidia, Microsoft, and several other gigantic hardware and software companies all at once.

Not exactly the entire jobs. They design, what 4 unique chips (2 of which are very closely related)? No presence in server hardware or cloud hosting. Not really duplicating AMD and NVidia - more like just a small portion of what AMD does (APUs).

 

[mode11]

People like Tim Cook get charge you $200 for 8GB of RAM

Yeah, I miss the Steve Jobs era, where Apple would never consider overcharging for upgrades.

 

[jmho]

Not exactly the entire jobs. They design, what 4 unique chips (2 of which are very closely related)? No presence in server hardware or cloud hosting. Not really duplicating AMD and NVidia - more like just a small portion of what AMD does (APUs).

I think it's more noticeable on the software side, where Apple makes the entire operating system, every single API, the drivers, their own programming language, their own compression algorithms like LZFSE, numerous codecs, their own file system, compiler toolchain, and IDE, and then in addition to porting 3rd party software like Blender.

 

[PineappleCake]

Yeah, I miss the Steve Jobs era, where Apple would never consider overcharging for upgrades.

At least Steve never charged $1000 for a stand or $400 for height adjustment....

 

[PineappleCake]

I think it's almost the opposite, at least on the software side (which is the only one I know about). The few people I know who work at Apple are absolutely world-class, and I don't think I've ever met or interacted with a developer at Apple who didn't come off as incredibly competent.

I know there is an impression that everyone in Silicon Valley is just sitting around designing new emojis and playing in a giant ball-pool, but I get the impression that Apple really is doing an incredible amount of work for its size.

The trouble is that Apple are literally trying to completely re-invent several wheels simultaneously. They're literally trying to do the entire jobs of Intel, AMD, nVidia, Microsoft, and several other gigantic hardware and software companies all at once.

If anything I'd like to see them increase their developer count massively so they can actually fix all their incredibly buggy software, which seems mostly to be buggy because they don't have the people to fix things, rather than the developers they do have being bad or lazy.

To add onto to this, Apple is always behind in implementing latest GPU features like hardware RT and codecs.

Where is RT and AV1? No where...

Every single chip tech company has AV1 and RT by now.

 

[maikerukun]

Yeah, though I suspect they allow the headphone business to continue, having bought the company for the software / streaming platform.

I think a large part of them buying Beats, rather than trying to make it from scratch, is because they wanted the urban, ethnically diverse market Beats served (Apple being whiter than the Renaissance's depreciation of polychromery in sculpture), without being seen to compete with a company that had a prominent black founder - hence not buying B&O or any of the other high end audio companies.

True, I can see that perspective. But that was my feeling about RED and DiVinci as well...they'd buy it to get their hands on some patents, etc...rather than disrupt the hardware

 

[maikerukun]

There is just no one left at apple that is excited, has a vision, and has the juice to make people do stuff.

To me it is HILLARIOUS that you have a company and you have wandering snowflakes that tell you "I dont feel like working on Aperture". Um, how about **** and do the job.

Man, I love a world where I tell my employer, yea, you know, I don't feel like working on something you need, and am going to go over here in a corner and play with my red stapler for a decade or so waiting for my options to vest. Insanity. Jobs would have fired them all.

But more importantly, Jobs would have said, see that mountain, we're going there! And got people excited about it. And everyone rowing in the same direction and loving it! None of that exists there anymore as far as I can tell. And it's sad.

I do agree with that. It's very indicative of the current social culture that half of them haven't been fired over there yet. It's very sad and I wish Jobs was still around to do it :/

 

[maikerukun]

Apple should do a deal with Pixar like Unity did with Weta Digital, then make a macOS DCC variant of the Pixar pipeline...

After all, they were founded by the same CEO