Mac Pro Arrived! Pics Included

[isgoed]

View attachment 55021

Sorry, couldn't resist too!

Honestly, I do not understand all the people who are against some kind of mid range headless mac.

Personally I'd buy a machine like that with a Conroe and an upgradeable graphics card for around 1500 € in a heartbeat.

I feel you. However as a Mac Mini owner/lover, may I try to convince you of buying a mini?

I want to keep my powerbook as laptop and for a few things I rarely need classic support. So macbook pro is no option. I do not want/need/have the space on my desk for another monitor, so imac is no option. The mini doesn't have enough power for my needs (Adobe CS (mostly Illustrator), light Cinema 4D and occasional gaming), while the macpro is overkill & sadly is too expensive.

Look, Adobe is only CPU limited (GPU plays no role) and in Cinema 4D is the standard core Duo already about as fast as a Dual 2 Ghz G5. So let me configure a powerful mini for you:

$599____ Mac mini 1.5GHz Intel Core Solo
$50_____ Superdrive
$179.99_ 2 GB Ram (2 x 1GB) 200-Pin DDR2 SO-DIMM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) (Don't buy from Apple)
$199.95_ LaCie mini Hard Drive & HUB (250GB)
$259.99_ Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Conroe (2.16 Ghz)
========
$1288.93
$-50____ Core solo for sale
$-40____ 2x256 MB Ram for sale
========
$1198.93

For only $1200, (much less than your $1500), incredible value for money, you get a powerful little kicker. Can you say desktop space? And I love it. When I go to my mum, I just drop it in my backpack. It's excellent.

Ok, but now the pitfall. What you really want is an allrounder system (read: play Battlefield 2 on windows). So you have a system that fulfills all your needs and you never have to compromise. If it is really important for you I suggest you wait until the iMac gets its Core 2 Upgrade and see if Apple decides to release your Mac Midi at the same time. If they don't they won't either (at least not for a year (unless rumors state differently )).

In order to solve your Battlefield 2 problem, here's the deal:

$399 XBox 360
=======
$1597.93

Just look at that price! Still less than the 20" iMac! OMG!

Considerations:

• Wait until the mini gets a Core 2 Duo (they will *eventually* since the transition will be truly complete once everything is 64 bit x86)
• Buy a MacPro

I agree that the "mac midi" most likely will not happen, but I think apple is losing switchers and in the long run money & market share without it.

How another forum-member put it: What apple needs is a MacGameDesktop. This needs to be the transition machine for windows users.

I can't believe the attention this thread is getting. Look at the views compared to others in the Macintosh Computer section. It's quite funny.

This thread is on the front page .

 

[Evangelion]

I am of the opinion that the iMac is the midrange model. And the originator of this question was asking about a 'higher' model.

iMac is NOT the cheaper alternative to Mac Pro. an alternative to Mac Pro would be cheap & expandable minitower (or pizzabox).

There are lots of people who would love to get an inexpensive (think $1399 - $1999) machine that could be expanded and wasnt't an all-in-one. Hell, most desktop-computer sold today are that type of machine, so there's obviously demand for them. Apple does not offer one. They do have a product that fits the price (iMac), but it does not fit the specs.

many people (you included) are simply looking at the price, and using it to determine that iMac is the machine we are looking for. But you fail to see that iMac is MILES away specswise from the machine we are looking for.

 

[glassbathroom]

Here is a question for you. I am considering getting a new drive for backup (weekly). Do you see any problem with buying an internal drive and popping it in every week to backup? Keeping it off site at all other times.

Also what is the bast RAID set-up for a Mac Pro? Any ideas.

 

[McoreD]

Congratulations! I wonder what PCMark you will get.

 

[Evangelion]

The current marketing strategy for Macs has been that way for years - ever since Steve returned - remember the "product matrix" they worked so hard to fill out?

That product-matrix does not exist anymore. They added (and then removed) the Cube to it, even though they already had a pro-desktop. They also added (and kept) the Mini, even though they already had a consumer desktop. The original matrix called for one pro desktop and one consumer desktop. They currently have two consumer desktops.

I mean seriously, we're only talkin a few hundred dollars difference between an upper end iMac and a bas Mac Pro...what exactly are you looking to save?

What I (and others) is looking for, is a machine that costs about as much as iMac does, while lacking screen, but offering better performance and expandability instead. I have no need for quad-core machine, but I would very much like a fast dual-core (say, 2.33 - 2.66GHz Conroe) machine with expandability (two HD-bays, 1-2 PCI-e slots).

To many, iMac is simply wrong. Many people do not want an all-in-one. And they don't need quad-core either. Mac Mini isn't suitable either. So which product are we supposed to buy?

Instead of getting "slow" and not expandable machine with screen, I would like a faster and expandable machine without screen for about same amount of money. This is not a question of price (a fact many people are overlooking) as such. This is a question of specs. iMac has the right price, but it does NOT have the right specs.

Take a look at iMac and Mac Pro. Pricewise, there's a nice progression from one to the other (iMac ends at under $2000, Mac Pro starts at above $2000). But there is a HUMUNGOUS difference spec-wise between the two. To use a car-analogy: how would you feel if you were buying a new car, and you could only choose between Smart ForTwo and Chevy Suburban (for the sake of argument, pretend that the price-difference between the two isn't that big)? What if you wanted something a bit more than ForTwo, but not something as extreme as a Suburban? Would low-end suburban be an alternative to the slightly cheaper ForTwo? To put it mildly: no.

That is the situation with Apple's product-line currently. They offer the two extremes, but nothing in between

 

[chaosbunny]

Thanks for your suggestion, isgoed! I really appreciate it. And it is something I'll definitely keep in mind if they do not release my "dream mac midi", which will most likely be the case.

For now it's not Battlefield 2 but World of Warcraft I'm into game-wise, and that runs quite good on the powerbook. And since I earn my money mostly with adobe apps I probably won't go intel until CS3.

So I have some time to wait and see what will happen.

 

[Evangelion]

I'd say they were pretty positive. The only cons were

- Default NVIDIA GeForce 7300GT video card
- Meager software bundle
- Enclosure is still very large and heavy
- Bluetooth only available as a BTO option

The GPU point is pathetic. The 7300 is perfect for many Mac Pro users. Meager software bundle isn't going to affect pro users who're going to load and use their pro software on it anyway. Enclosure is large and heavy... what do they expect with that kind of power and expandability? Bluetooth only BTO... so? Some will want it, some will not, why not make it BTO?

Make it standard for the same price, but let the penny-pichers remove it to save few bucks. IOW: If you could choose between two identical MacPro's with same price, which would you choose: the one with builtin WLAN/BT or the one without?

Same thing with video: if you could choose between bottom-of-the-barrel vid-card, or faster vid-card, and for the same price, which one would you choose?

Why not ship Mac Pro with Intel GMA 950? Would it then be REALLY great? Apparently many people feel that the crappier vid-card it has, the better it is.

 

[Evangelion]

I agree. Apple's new method of offering one highly configurable base model is a step in the right direction. Why pay for Bluetooth, airport, high end video, more ram, etc. unless you want to use it... simply BTO what you need. The only downside is the added delay to shipping (for now).

So, the added price is NOT a downside?

I'm at a loss of words really. What people are saying that the standard specs should be a bit better on some areas, for the same amount of money. And you guys are arguing that it's BETTER to have worse specs, than to get better specs for your money? All this "why waste money on specs you don't need?" is bull. The consumers are not saving money, Apple is. Don't want faster vid-card or WLAN/BT? Well, you should be aple to drop them from the config in order to save few dollars. But if they came standard for the amount of money they are asking, would you drop them? No? That's what I thought.

 

[gekko513]

Make it standard for the same price, but let the penny-pichers remove it to save few bucks. IOW: If you could choose between two identical MacPro's with same price, which would you choose: the one with builtin WLAN/BT or the one without?

Same thing with video: if you could choose between bottom-of-the-barrel vid-card, or faster vid-card, and for the same price, which one would you choose?

Why not ship Mac Pro with Intel GMA 950? Would it then be REALLY great? Apparently many people feel that the crappier vid-card it has, the better it is.

Make it standard for the same price? That doesn't compute economically, come on, surely you understand that. Sure we'd all like a Quad Xeon 3GHz with X1900 for $1999, but the margins aren't something you and I can set just because it sounds better. What difference does it make if Apple set the base configuration as the X1900 incl. bluetooth for $2878 with options for downgrading. Apple are already several hundred dollars cheaper than Dell and others for the same specs. I just don't get people are able to complain about this.

Sure, it would be nice with even more graphics card options, like an X1600 or something that goes in between the 7300 and the X1900, and maybe that'll be added later on, but we can't wish the Mac Pro any cheaper.

 

[Evangelion]

Make it standard for the same price? That doesn't compute economically, come on, surely you understand that.

No, I don't. Adding WLAN/BT to MacPro costs Apple maybe 5-10 bucks. Would it REALLY ruin their margins and drive Apple bankrupt if they had those features as standard? Are you saying that Apple's margins on the Mac Pro are below 100 bucks???

What difference does it make if Apple set the base configuration as the X1900 incl. bluetooth for $2878 with options for downgrading.

Why not offering something different than the bottom-of-the-barrel card that is available? I'm not saying that it should ship with hi-end card as standard. But they COULD ship with something else than a card that costs maybe 30 bucks. Adding a bit better vid-card and WLAN/BT as standard, Apple might end up paying a whopping 50 bucks more for each MacPro. Their margins could easily take that. I bet that they earn over 1000 bucks from every Mac pro sold. Recuding that number by 50 bucks is not going to kill them. With small amount of money they could have used the GF 7600 instead, which would be considerable faster than the low-end 7300 they are currently using.

we can't wish the Mac Pro any cheaper.

Maybe not cheaper, but better specced. In short: keep the price as it is, but add those few missing features that cost few bucks to implement. A better vid-card would cost slightly more than few bucks (50 bucks or so, if they still used NVIDIA), but it would increase the capabilities of the machine considerably.

 

[epitaphic]

$599____ Mac mini 1.5GHz Intel Core Solo
$50_____ Superdrive
$179.99_ 2 GB Ram (2 x 1GB) 200-Pin DDR2 SO-DIMM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) (Don't buy from Apple)
$199.95_ LaCie mini Hard Drive & HUB (250GB)
$259.99_ Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Conroe (2.16 Ghz)
========
$1288.93
$-50____ Core solo for sale
$-40____ 2x256 MB Ram for sale
========
$1198.93

For your $1200 you end up with a mini w/o a cpu and a conroe chip next to it. The upgrade path for mobile chips is yonah to merom. The path for desktops is conroe to kentsfield. Just because yonah and conroe are marketed as Core 2 doesn't mean they're interchangeable.

Do you see any problem with buying an internal drive and popping it in every week to backup? Keeping it off site at all other times.

Also what is the bast RAID set-up for a Mac Pro? Any ideas.

I don't see any problem other than the hassle. You might wanna just go with a FW drive for the convenience.

Best RAID solution is to either get a hardware RAID card (not sure if there are any PCIe cards out yet tho) or on the software front, go with SoftRAID http://softraid.com/. I wouldn't touch OS X's built in software RAID with a barge pole. Its primitive and prone to bugs. I learned it the hard way by setting up RAID1+0 in Tiger and on a normal reboot lose two drives simultaneously, resulting in loss of data across the 4 drives.

 

[isgoed]

For your $1200 you end up with a mini w/o a cpu and a conroe chip next to it. The upgrade path for mobile chips is yonah to merom. The path for desktops is conroe to kentsfield. Just because yonah and conroe are marketed as Core 2 doesn't mean they're interchangeable.

uhmmm, you're right. This makes it all about $200 more expensive. In that case you better wait and see what Core 2 Duo systems Apple releases.

Why not offering something different than the bottom-of-the-barrel card that is available? I'm not saying that it should ship with hi-end card as standard. But they COULD ship with something else than a card that costs maybe 30 bucks. Adding a bit better vid-card and WLAN/BT as standard, Apple might end up paying a whopping 50 bucks more for each MacPro. Their margins could easily take that. I bet that they earn over 1000 bucks from every Mac pro sold. Recuding that number by 50 bucks is not going to kill them. With small amount of money they could have used the GF 7600 instead, which would be considerable faster than the low-end 7300 they are currently using.

Maybe not cheaper, but better specced. In short: keep the price as it is, but add those few missing features that cost few bucks to implement. A better vid-card would cost slightly more than few bucks (50 bucks or so, if they still used NVIDIA), but it would increase the capabilities of the machine considerably.

I think the limited video card line-up is a driver issue. They just don't have the driver's for all the mid-range cards. So Apple provided what most people would buy, which was either a simple card or the top-end card. The only other intel-compatible options are the GMA950 and the radeon X1600 (which is not extremely much better than the 7300).

I do cheer at the arrival of the 7300. Hopefully the next revision of the MacBook and Mini get it. Then also use the TV-version for the Mini and all of a sudden a whole lote more people will be attracted to it.

 

[Evangelion]

I think the limited video card line-up is a driver issue. They just don't have the driver's for all the mid-range cards.

NVIDIA uses same drivers for all their products.

 

[airmac]

Make it standard for the same price? That doesn't compute economically, come on, surely you understand that. Sure we'd all like a Quad Xeon 3GHz with X1900 for $1999, but the margins aren't something you and I can set just because it sounds better. What difference does it make if Apple set the base configuration as the X1900 incl. bluetooth for $2878 with options for downgrading. Apple are already several hundred dollars cheaper than Dell and others for the same specs. I just don't get people are able to complain about this.

Sure, it would be nice with even more graphics card options, like an X1600 or something that goes in between the 7300 and the X1900, and maybe that'll be added later on, but we can't wish the Mac Pro any cheaper.

You just don*t get it, do you. A majority won*t need a Quad Xeon 3GHz for whatever prize. We just want a cheap headless mac (put a core solo inside I don*t care) and ..... an option to put a top of the art VIDEO CARD inside. Why? To just name one reason. Cause you can run Windows now.

...

 

[weldon]

Opticals are not SATA, they are PATA.

True, but there are two unused SATA ports near the optical drives. The assumption is that they were included so that a future upgrade to a SATA Blu-ray drive is possible.

 

[cb911]

I'd say you mean NCQ.

haha, yeah that's the one.

*This may have been asked before, If so I'm sorry*

Does the mac pro still have that clear plastic side panel that can be substituted for the aluminum sidepanel?

I don't think the G5 ever had a plastic side panel that could be substituted??? there was the inner plastic airflow cover, and the aluminium case panel - but both were meant to be used together, not one or the other.

also - not much of a performance difference between the Dual 2GHz and Dual 2.7GHz G5? from all the benchmarks i've seen it looks like there was a big enough gap there...

Here is a question for you. I am considering getting a new drive for backup (weekly). Do you see any problem with buying an internal drive and popping it in every week to backup? Keeping it off site at all other times.

Also what is the bast RAID set-up for a Mac Pro? Any ideas.

I don't see any problem with putting in a drive, backing up, then taking it out - off site. although that's a really tedious process - shuting down, taking the side panel off, putting the drive in the sled, etc. Also you'd have to make sure that it was transported carefully. Personally, i'd just buy and external drive.

Best RAID setup? As has already been mentioned - would be to go for hardware RAID. RocketRaid have a big range of RAID controller cards, and OS X compatibility. But the question that hasn't been answered (or I haven't seen it at least ) is wheather or not it's even possible to connect the SATA cables from the hard drives to the RAID controller card??
And I'm really dying to know about this...

And whoever had that RAID 10 setup die - what an unlikely coincidence! for two of the same pair of drives to die. But i've got to say it - this goes to show that RAID is not a bakup solution.

Oh - one more question. Does anyone know what kind of wattage the Mac Pro power supply is? Does the 3GHz model have a higher rated supply, or are they all the same?

 

[Evangelion]

True, but there are two unused SATA ports near the optical drives.

I know.

 

[Mr. Mister]

I

Want

My

Mac

Pro

 

[iGary]

You just don*t get it, do you. A majority won*t need a Quad Xeon 3GHz for whatever prize. We just want a cheap headless mac (put a core solo inside I don*t care) and ..... an option to put a top of the art VIDEO CARD inside. Why? To just name one reason. Cause you can run Windows now.

You guys don't get it either. Your headless iMac ain't happening. Evarrr.

 

[ampd]

It is sad how I check my order status on apple's site even though I know I will recieve an email when it finally ships....Im so impatient....I am going insane with anticipation...

 

[Buschmaster]

I think the reasoning behind the video cards is simply the monitors. They take pretty crazy power to run and Apple doesn't want to compromise anything.

 

[hwattys1]

Boot Camp Windows XP benchmark on Mac Pro 2.66

We picked up our 2.66 Mac Pro on Thursday evening and I immediately discovered a few things:

1. Boot Camp works in that you can get XP installed but the driver CD does not support the Mac Pro. I used downloadable drivers from the Intel site for chipset and the gigabit ethernet and the nVidia site for the video card. I had to force the latter to install but got the video working fine with some effort. I did not get sound working and did not try too hard and I got quite a few yellow exclamation points on the pci-x slots and the disk I/O is very, very slow. There is an unidentified pci device in device manager and I supect it is the storage controller on the motherboard. I also suspect that the motherboard has got some quirks and straight Windows drivers will not work completely.

2. I did get it working well enough to run a pretty simple Windows benchmark online at http://www.pcpitstop.com. Here is a link to that result:

http://www.pcpitstop.com/techexpress.asp?id=QU9JPWXTJVJS6G3C


The 4044 score with disk I/O at 4 mbps equates to some top of the line gaming computers running overclocked CPUs so this thing is fast.

Today I am scheduled to get an additional 2 gigs of memory. I decided to try out Kingston Value RAM FB-DIMMS at $175 per 1 gig stick (Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 FB-DIMM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) ECC Fully Buffered System Memory Model KVR667D2D8F5/1G - Retail) and I also got another duplicate WD 250 gig SATA drive from http://www.newegg.com for about $80. I plan to set this up tonite. I recognize the memory does not have the massive heatsinks like the Apple modules but it does have heatsinks and I am willing to risk the restocking charge if it does not work. I will let everybody know. This is mostly to be used by my wife for intensive Photoshop work. She now has one of the Dual 2.5 G5 AGP versions running 8 gigs of DDR-400. Her father has agreed to buy her machine for about $1800 so I am thinking this will be a worthwhile upgrade.

 

[CyberPrey]

Hmm, I was thinking that the SATA controller was intell, and the drivers installed for that..

My thoughts on the Unidentified PCI device was that it was the sound card??

 

[stormj]

Here's your mid-mac

We picked up our 2.66 Mac Pro on Thursday evening

I'm JEALOUS I was *supposed* to have mine today, but I got an email today informing me that it would be another 8 days, and the phone person couldn't tell me what was holding it up. They said there was no particular component. That has to be *********, because if I just wanted a basic one, I could go pick it up at the Apple Store or wherever. ARRRRRRRRRGH

Anyway, if people are so interested in a mid-range mac, just follow the instructions for a mac-clone You can put one of those together for as little as a few hundred and use whatever video card you can get running. I'm not sure if you have to reimage your HD every time they upgrade Mac OS, but careful partitioning can make that a smaller hassle, I suppose.

 

[Evangelion]

You guys don't get it either. Your headless iMac ain't happening. Evarrr.

I don't want headless iMac. I want a MacPro Mini.