Mac Pro (Late 2013) GPU (Driver) Issues

[teohyc]

Sorry for your troubles.
I am beginning to think that in present days people relying on computers to make a living need not only to do constant backups of their important data.

I can't afford any downtime so I have backups of backup, and a backup of the computer. The main computer is the Mac Pro and the Mac Mini is the backup. So far, it has proved that the Mac Mini is more reliable because of this problem with Mac Pro's graphics card.

The thing is, I still cannot avoid downtime because downtime comes when the Mac Pro freezes. If I have not saved my files, I have to redo things. I save quite often thankfully but I still have to redo sometimes. Also when it comes to rendering video, or 3D and it crashes, it means I have to wait, often more than half hour before I can see a working file. One freeze and it means I have to wait half hour for the file to render again.

I can't believe that the Mac Mini is more reliable than the expensive Mac Pro. No wonder Apple is not selling those quad-core Mac Minis anymore -- they are just too good.

 

[Riwam]

I can't afford any downtime so I have backups of backup, and a backup of the computer. The main computer is the Mac Pro and the Mac Mini is the backup. So far, it has proved that the Mac Mini is more reliable because of this problem with Mac Pro's graphics card.

The thing is, I still cannot avoid downtime because downtime comes when the Mac Pro freezes. If I have not saved my files, I have to redo things. I save quite often thankfully but I still have to redo sometimes. Also when it comes to rendering video, or 3D and it crashes, it means I have to wait, often more than half hour before I can see a working file. One freeze and it means I have to wait half hour for the file to render again.

I can't believe that the Mac Mini is more reliable than the expensive Mac Pro. No wonder Apple is not selling those quad-core Mac Minis anymore -- they are just too good.

Not every MacPro has this problem. I know it doesn't help you to know that but nevertheless it is an important fact although logical.
Unlike you I don't use mine for rendering or other pro work but still I would have noticed freezing if it had ever happened.
Therefore one must conclude that it only happens if some components don't work as they should and only Apple can find out what is wrong and solve it.

My own experience with Apple customer care was a very good one.
I hope they help you soon to get rid of the problem once and for all.

I am sorry for your worries
Ed

 

[jmartellaro]

I have tried my best to explain, diagnose and suggest a workaround for this nagging issue - which also affects me. Will update the article if I hear from Apple.

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/arti...owners-have-little-recourse-apple-is-helpless

 

[Hitchkunt]

UPDATE

I decided to try one last thing before taking my machine to Apple. In Settings I toggled on "Displays have separate Spaces". In the two weeks since this change I have not experienced any GPU Hangs. I don't want to jinx anything but I am hopeful this will be a reliable fix.

 

[Riwam]

I have tried my best to explain, diagnose and suggest a workaround for this nagging issue - which also affects me. Will update the article if I hear from Apple.

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/arti...owners-have-little-recourse-apple-is-helpless

I have one with D500 I received in April 2014 with Mavericks.
Although updated easely to Yosemite and, with more issues, especially regarding Bootcamp, to El Capitan, I don't have (until now! ) this freezing problem.
I do not believe in supernatural causes for technical problems.
Therefore there must be something different between a MacPro not having this problem as mine (and many others in the whole world) and those who suffer this problem.
A direct comparison chip by chip, GPU by GPU, screw by screw...must show something different between both macs!
The hardware must have some kind of difference and exchanging by Apple systematically parts from one to the other should eventually show the culprit.
This assuming it is a hardware fault.

Then it might be a OS (software system) problem.
if, as reported, Mavericks is not affected, Apple should allow people suffering from those problems to downgrade to Mavericks to see if the problem is solved.
Should it be resolved, then it is a OS problem.

Am I seeing it in a faulty way?
Ed

 

[koyoot]

Well it turns out that it is not a problem with GPUs, nor with hardware. It is because Apple ch anger the display signal from GPUs over the Thunderbolt.

The same issue affects also Macbook Pros, even on integrated GPUs. I have had similar problem on built in display and GPU(GT650M) on my mid 2012 Macbook Pro.

I believe the problem lies in the signal between GPU and Thunderbolt, and software for them. Not the hardware itself. That is why it is completely non-replicable, and random. And not only affecting the Mac Pros.

I know that MBP 2012 dGPU is not wired with internal display through the Thunderbolt. But problems have occurred. Not often but they did.

 

[MMcCraryNJ]

.

 

[teohyc]

Assuming that Apple is going to ask me to update to the latest OS before I take it in anyway, I blew up my system and fresh installed 10.11.5 (coming from Yosemite). Most of the pro applications I use have been updated anyway, I just hadn't had the time to do it until a few days ago. Haven't had a freeze yet, but I'm not hopeful that it will last.

I'm back from the service centre today. They told me to reinstall OS X. So I'll do that and see if it fixes this fiasco before I bring it back.

I'm not hopeful it will last too.

 

[Idolum]

I was able to avoid all freeze issues of my MacPro 2013 with Dual AMD FirePro D300 graphics processors by changing my USB setup (I used to experience the spinning beach ball with continued audio playback).

The crashes and subsequent system lockups completely disappeared after I connected all Dual-Link DVI adapters of my 30" Apple Cinema Displays to an externally powered USB 3 hub. On occasion I see the system halt for a second but the beachball never appears and the system unfreezes right afterwards.

If I do not connect an external power supply to the USB 3 hub the monitors work fine as well. However, a mounted USB 2 flash drive plugged into one of the Cinema Display's USB 2 port can disappear and re-mount at random. This suggests that there could be an issue with the USB 3 port of the MacPro 2013. Googling "USB 3 mac freeze" shows a long list of reports for other Macs as well.

 

[koyoot]

I have to say. After all what has been written and the workarounds about the issues only one thing pops into my mind.

The f*** is happening?

 

[Riwam]

I was able to avoid all freeze issues of my MacPro 2013 with Dual AMD FirePro D300 graphics processors by changing my USB setup (I used to experience the spinning beach ball with continued audio playback).

The crashes and subsequent system lockups completely disappeared after I connected all Dual-Link DVI adapters of my 30" Apple Cinema Displays to an externally powered USB 3 hub. On occasion I see the system halt for a second but the beachball never appears and the system unfreezes right afterwards.

If I do not connect an external power supply to the USB 3 hub the monitors work fine as well. However, a mounted USB 2 flash drive plugged into one of the Cinema Display's USB 2 port can disappear and re-mount at random. This suggests that there could be an issue with the USB 3 port of the MacPro 2013. Googling "USB 3 mac freeze" shows a long list of reports for other Macs as well.

I cannot complain since I never had the freezing or beachballing problem.
However I agree that USB3 seems problematic.
Lately often external USB3 drives connected via a Belkin powered USB3 hub (incidentally a 4 port hub supplied by Apple) are not recognized and mounted by my nMP.
I usually pull the USB3 cable out and in again and sometimes I must restart the Mac to have the drive seen and mounted.
It might be a problem of the USB3 hub but I have always felt that the USB3 implementation in the nMP does not seem to be particularly good.
On the other side I read often that USB3 in itself is afflicted by many problems and USB3 hubs work fine only if some kind of chipsets were used to build them.
Ed

 

[touhy]

I connected all Dual-Link DVI adapters of my 30" Apple Cinema Displays to an externally powered USB 3 hub.

Could you please explain this part? I don't quite understand.
Do you mean you connect all your USB devices to a powered USB3 hub and connect that to your DVI's cable's USB connection?

And hence do not have any USB devices direct to any of the macpro's USBs?

 

[Idolum]

Could you please explain this part? I don't quite understand.
Do you mean you connect all your USB devices to a powered USB3 hub and connect that to your DVI's cable's USB connection?

And hence do not have any USB devices direct to any of the macpro's USBs?

The 30" Apple Cinema Display needs to be connected to an USB 2 port (via the Dual-Link DVI adapter) in addition to the video port (Mini Display Port or Thunderbolt). The 2013 MacPro can power up to six of the Cinema Displays provided you have six Dual-Link DVI adapters (one for each monitor).

I initially used an older USB 2 hub without an external power supply with four connections to adequate power four Cinema Displays as well as any external USB 2 devices connected via the monitor's USB 2 ports.

After replacing the USB 2 hub with a newer USB 3 hub (with four ports to power four Cinema Displays) a flash drive connected to one of the display's USB 2 port (which is powered by the USB 3 hub) does not function correctly unless an external power supply is connected to the USB 3 port. This is unusual behavior since an USB 3 hub can draw more power from the MacPro's USB connection than an USB 2 hub.

This behavior suggests that the power supplied to any USB device directly connected to the MacPro's USB 3 port is unsteady which could cause the system to lock up. Therefore connecting all your USB devices to an externally powered USB 3 hub might avoid the lock ups. At least it worked for me.
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I cannot complain since I never had the freezing or beachballing problem.
Lately often external USB3 drives connected via a Belkin powered USB3 hub (incidentally a 4 port hub supplied by Apple) are not recognized and mounted by my nMP.
Ed

That is interesting. Maybe the USB 3 signal is simply lost for a second, rather than the supplied voltage. If I don't use an external power supply I frequently get the dialog that my USB 2 flash drive was "not ejected properly" even though it mounts itself again without noticeable delay.

 

[touhy]

The 30" Apple Cinema Display needs to be connected to an USB 2 port (via the Dual-Link DVI adapter) in addition to the video port (Mini Display Port or Thunderbolt). The 2013 MacPro can power up to six of the Cinema Displays provided you have six Dual-Link DVI adapters (one for each monitor).

I initially used an ...

Understood. Thank you for your posts and the explanation.

I have a feeling that while the crash symptoms(freeze with continuing audio, need to hard reboot or unplug and replug thunderbolt monitor cable, etc) are the same, the causes are multifactorial.(GPUs? Overheating? USB3?, Certain software?)

For me, removing Adobe Flash player helped a lot, but I still randomly get the freeze ups.

This is worth a try and I'll get a powered USB3 hub and use that for my un-self powered USB devices such as my wireless keyboard and mouse USB transmitter.

Thanks again.

 

[filmak]

Understood. Thank you for your posts and the explanation.

I have a feeling that while the crash symptoms(freeze with continuing audio, need to hard reboot or unplug and replug thunderbolt monitor cable, etc) are the same, the causes are multifactorial.(GPUs? Overheating? USB3?, Certain software?)

For me, removing Adobe Flash player helped a lot, but I still randomly get the freeze ups.

This is worth a try and I'll get a powered USB3 hub and use that for my un-self powered USB devices such as my wireless keyboard and mouse USB transmitter.

Thanks again.

Try a hub with a via vl812-b2 chipset for better results.
Just have in mind that sometimes the keyboard/mouse transceivers have to be plugged directly to mac's usb ports to work flawlessly...

 

[Riwam]

Try a hub with a via vl812-b2 chipset for better results.
Just have in mind that sometimes the keyboard/mouse transceivers have to be plugged directly to mac's usb ports to work flawlessly...

Not only keyboard/mouse might need to be plugged directly to the mac.
The external superdrive needs that as well.
In the case of the superdrive the too short USB cable makes this situation little comfortable. A cable in between female to male unfortunately does not work.
Stupid in my opinion.
Ed
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Try a hub with a via vl812-b2 chipset for better results.

It is not always an easy task.
I learnt from Icy Box that they are using now new Via chipsets for some of their powered hubs.
About a month ago I gave that info to the online shop and am still waiting for their answer if they can supply the hubs with the newer chipset.
As long as a dealer has in stock previous hubs, something customers never know, it's not so easy to have him order new ones,
Ed

 

[Idolum]

Not only keyboard/mouse might need to be plugged directly to the mac.
The external superdrive needs that as well.
Ed

I am using Apple's wireless keyboard and trackpad so the only 'devices' directly connected to the MacPro's USB 3 ports are two USB 3 hubs.

I never used a superdrive but I did try to use a new 2015 Seagate 2.5" hard drive enclosure to connect and power an older hard drive via the 2013 MacPro's USB 3 port for a while. I had several read/write issues even though the same hard drive worked flawlessly when connected to the USB 3 port of a 2015 MacBook Pro.

The same hard drive also worked without any issues when used in an older enclosure connected to the 2013 MacPro via the USB 2 port or the Thunderbolt port (with a Firewire to Thunderbolt adapter).

Strangely enough a new SSD drive placed into the new 2015 Seagate USB 3 enclosure worked fine on both the MacPro and the MacBook Pro. My only explanation is that the traditional hard drive requires more power than the new the SSD drive and the MacPro's USB 3 port might be unable to supply it reliably.

 

[Riwam]

I am using Apple's wireless keyboard and trackpad so the only 'devices' directly connected to the MacPro's USB 3 ports are two USB 3 hubs.

I never used a superdrive but I did try to use a new 2015 Seagate 2.5" hard drive enclosure to connect and power an older hard drive via the 2013 MacPro's USB 3 port for a while. I had several read/write issues even though the same hard drive worked flawlessly when connected to the USB 3 port of a 2015 MacBook Pro.

The same hard drive also worked without any issues when used in an older enclosure connected to the 2013 MacPro via the USB 2 port or the Thunderbolt port (with a Firewire to Thunderbolt adapter).

Strangely enough a new SSD drive placed into the new 2015 Seagate USB 3 enclosure worked fine on both the MacPro and the MacBook Pro. My only explanation is that the traditional hard drive requires more power than the new the SSD drive and the MacPro's USB 3 port might be unable to supply it reliably.

It's interesting what you experienced.
That non spinning SSD drives should need less power than conventional 2.5" hard drives seems very logical.
However I suppose (I don't know, just seems to me also logical) that the DVD superdrive spinning mechanism should not require less power than a 2.5" spinning harddrive.
Otherwise why would 2.5" external drives be supplied without an external power supply?.
Since however that is the rule, their manufacturers count on the fact that any computer through its USB 2 or USB 3 can supply enough power to use it.
If a powerful, not so old computer like the End 2013 MP cannot, as you assume, deliver through its USB 3 ports the needed power, then it is a sad story.
Strange indeed what you found out...
Ed

 

[Idolum]

If a powerful, not so old computer like the End 2013 MP cannot, as you assume, deliver through its USB 3 ports the needed power, then it is a sad story.
Strange indeed what you found out...
Ed

It really is a mystery. It could be a software issue, a firmware issue or a hardware issue. Either way if you experience the lockups I would check if disconnecting all external USB devices from the MacPro helps.

 

[axantas]

It really is a mystery. It could be a software issue, a firmware issue or a hardware issue. Either way if you experience the lockups I would check if disconnecting all external USB devices from the MacPro helps.

I encounter much less hangs with the last OS update, they are now all 'recoverable' by un-/replugging the TB monitor, saving my work and rebooting. What I always see: the TB-dock and its USB connectivity crashes as well and does not recover.
I tried all possible combinations for external drives, as well as no externals at all (Just the wired keyboard and the BT mouse - they never get killed completely). No change in behavior.

New behavior in Bootcamp with Windows 10: Some MP4 movies cause heavy driver crashes, but never a system lockup.

 

[Idolum]

the TB-dock and its USB connectivity crashes as well and does not recover.

Thanks - I was thinking about purchasing a Thunderbolt/USB dock to hide all my cables. I better stick to my current setup. Just today I experienced a short blackout of all Cinema displays which are connected via the Thunderbolt ports and the externally powered USB hub. In essence there was no signal or power on the Thunderbolt port or the USB port for a split second.

I also experienced issues with an external Firewire magneto-optical drive connected to the Thunderbolt port. This drive is powered via Apple's very own Firewire to Thunderbolt adapter. However, the drive only works reliably if it is supplied with additional power from an external power supply. When used without the external power supply the drive produces frequent write errors. Magneto-optical drives verify any information written to the disc by default and immediately report any problems to the operating system. The write errors disappear when an external power adapter is connected to the drive.
I have used (and continue to use) the same drive connected to the Firewire port of my older MacBook Pro with no external power adapter without any issues.

 

[spinkb]

I'm a developer. I have a good understanding of software and hardware, and have been coding for 30+ years. I have a 6 core Xeon E5, Late 2013 MacPro with D500 cards. I had a period of about 8 months before freezes started becoming an issue. Once they did, I diagnosed it as GPU issues form the system logs, and crash logs. It however took me several phone calls and stupid tests apple had me do to prove the GPU was having issues. (The reps didn't know what a WindowServer process was and I had to explain it to them. Its part of "your" OS...) The issue was sporadic at times...sometimes a week or two without a single incident, then suddenly 3+ times in one day, then none for a week...

I finally got Apple to agree to a repair which is no small challenge as I don't live in the US anymore, and the nearest Apple store is at least a 4 hour flight away. But I visited the US, dragging my MacPro through the airports, layovers, etc...dropped it off, and they repaired it, replacing *one* video card. Returned home, and its been 7 months now...and suddenly today, it failed again.

We all spent premium money on these machines because we needed the power behind them...Apple is treating us like idiots.

BTW, Changing the power for your thunderbolt to DVI connector is not a fix for the real issue discussed here where the WindowServer process freezes due to GPU crashes. If you have power issues to your USB, that is a different issue entirely, but not the bigger GPU issue affecting a lot of people. I'm not saying there couldn't be other issues related to power being provided for things causing other issues...but the beachball and all GUI action freeze with log entries in the system log about GPU and WindowManager is something entirely separate.

The issue is not the thunderbolt to DVI technology, although there could certainly be issues with it too, when this issue occurs, it occurs on all apps that the WindowServer is handling (all GUI). Its not just a signal issue. A VNC connection doesn't work and shows the same frozen screen. SSH to the machine is perfectly fine, and all apps running keep running, just unable to display what they are doing.

Apple might be able to mitigate the issue with automated GPU restarts, and I am surprised they aren't masking the issue from us already so only the most severe continuous crashing GPUs get noticed.

No one with a MacPro can really afford downtime...I'm not sure I will support Apple again on purchasing a premium machine. I might visit the US again this year...and if I do, this is getting repaired, and sold to some hopefully lucky future user.

Frustrated MacPro owner. --Ben

 

[poematik13]

Just FYI guys, there IS an Apple Repair Program for this defect and they WILL fix it for free regardless of your warranty status.

Not sure when you have purchased yours, but they've identified most issues as stemming from a specific batch of AMD GPU's that were defective in early 2015. For example, my specific computer was purchased in June 2015 and it had one of those bad GPU's, it had issues similar to what people have reported in this thread. It was fixed under warranty and the reps at the store said the engineering dept. was aware of this, hance the Repair program being launched later on.

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/02/06/late-2013-mac-pro-video-issues-repair-program/

 

[Idolum]

Apple might be able to mitigate the issue with automated GPU restarts, and I am surprised they aren't masking the issue from us already so only the most severe continuous crashing GPUs get noticed.--Ben

Thanks for your valuable insight, Ben. The very latest OS X update seems to avoid complete lockups but the mouse still feeezes for a few seconds rather frequently. Could this be an automated GPU restart or would such a restart be unnoticeable?

Either way, I share your frustration. For my D300 GPU it seems to be software issue. After month of troubleshooting I finally re-installed Mac OS X 10.9.5 a few days ago. Everything runs flawless again and I don't need all the bells and whistles of Mac OS 10.10 - 10.12. I'd rather be a 'maverick' with Mavericks than to stop to 'think different' and succumb to the lure of a Windows PC.

 

[loby]

Just FYI guys, there IS an Apple Repair Program for this defect and they WILL fix it for free regardless of your warranty status.

Not sure when you have purchased yours, but they've identified most issues as stemming from a specific batch of AMD GPU's that were defective in early 2015. For example, my specific computer was purchased in June 2015 and it had one of those bad GPU's, it had issues similar to what people have reported in this thread. It was fixed under warranty and the reps at the store said the engineering dept. was aware of this, hance the Repair program being launched later on.

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/02/06/late-2013-mac-pro-video-issues-repair-program/

I am in Japan for work and purchased a mac pro 2013 three weeks ago (refurbished). The day it arrived I opened it and guess what?!?.....yes....Graphic issues, even from the boot-up screen I noticed two glitches with the screen as it boots up. Later in the day it started to freeze up and black screen on occasion, including freeze and then restarts on its own.

I called the online store and advised them of the issues and said it looks like a graphic card issue and did the mac pro go through the "rigorous" testing before it went out like they are SUPPOSE to on a refurbished system? They had no answer for me. I also said that there was a recall of the mac pro 2013 in February due to graphic card issues...are you aware of that? No response. They said I can cancel my order and return it and then buy another one...

THEN...I said, "Can you before shipping me another one check and make sure that the cards were replaced so I do not have to go through this again? She gave me the scripted response "all of our systems go through rigorous testing before going out..." I said, "ok".

Received ANOTHER Mac Pro 2013. And do you know what happen? Same thing....

What is up with Apple now a-days? I know more than their techs? Please. I had projects that needed to be done and thought that I have 30 days for return. I called today and they said, "Sorry, the 14 days are up..."

They send me two defective systems and now it is MY fault? I even told them about the recall and to make sure they test the system before sending it to me...

Called the online sales and spoke with the same sales lady that I did the last two times today...

Do you know what she said?

I am sorry...do you want to buy another mac pro 2013?

Oh, Please....