Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Mac Pro Rising

I'll steal a comment from the AMD GPU thread a while back that another user made:

If Apple was slowly phasing out their PC business, what would they be doing differently?

The pro machine is dying on the vine. The tiny form factor is languishing, unupdated. The MacBook line is confusingly out of date. Their display is canceled and Apple is telling people to buy 3rd party. Their whole computer line, save one, is at a "don't buy" on the buyer's guide.

Is this unprecedented? I wonder if Apple is at a fork in the road: about to re-enter the pro market after the sales flop of the nMP, or about to dump intel and move to their (formerly) mobile-only processors and leave heavy/traditional computing out of their product line completely.

I wonder if Apple cares about VR. That would probably be the most telling.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Crosscreek, xnu, rGiskard and 4 others
I have been advocating for a reworking of the cylinder myself Eric5h5. I'd start by making it a bit taller so it could host full size PCIe cards and upping the PSU to 650w. Sadly, it seems that Apple is going to stick with the 6,1 form factor with perhaps a modest 50w PSU bump.

I've even wondered if the internal triangle could be changed to a taller hexagon with 4) PCIe slots and room for 4) 2.5" SSDs. That could make the circumference silly big, but it would support a very large, reasonably slow/quiet fan on top. Yes, it's just a fantasy...
 
Jack Burton said:
The pro machine is dying on the vine. The tiny form factor is languishing, unupdated. The MacBook line is confusingly out of date. Their display is canceled and Apple is telling people to buy 3rd party. Their whole computer line, save one, is at a "don't buy" on the buyer's guide.
Click to expand...

Apple still needs the Mac for even developing its iOS platform that can't be done on its iPad/iPhones.

About to re-enter the pro market after the sales flop of the nMP
Click to expand...

Citation needed on sales information to show the legitimacy of your statement.

I wonder if Apple cares about VR. That would probably be the most telling.
Click to expand...

They are probably showing interest as they do have a patent on VR with iOS. But it looks like they are going to wait it out to see how its going to be accepted and mature even further.
 
If the long wait is because Apple is moving away from Intel/AMD into something like George suggests, then perhaps it's worth it. Sadly, I doubt that's in the works.

It's hard to imagine that Apple will release any new Macs that don't have significant VR support. Even with Tim at the helm they can't be that unaware of where that tech is headed, can they?
 
linuxcooldude said:
Apple still needs the Mac for even developing its iOS platform that can't be done on its iPad/iPhones.



Citation needed on sales information to show the legitimacy of your statement.



They are probably showing interest as they do have a patent on VR with iOS. But it looks like they are going to wait it out to see how its going to be accepted and mature even further.
Click to expand...

You can develop IOS apps on an Air or even using a cloud based, apple managed environment that could be accessed via a simple web browser.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rGiskard and ITguy2016
tuxon86 said:
You can develop IOS apps on an Air or even using a cloud based, apple managed environment that could be accessed via a simple web browser.
Click to expand...

Even I could develop an iPhone app with no programming knowledge thru the internet. But Its not going to be the default way for a long time, if at all. I don't think top rated app developers are going to trust their data to cloud computing for the time being.
 
linuxcooldude said:
Even I could develop an iPhone app with no programming knowledge thru the internet. But Its not going to be the default way for a long time, if at all. I don't think top rated app developers are going to trust their data to cloud computing for the time being.
Click to expand...

I dunno F5 does his renders in the cloud??

I don't think I'd have an issue using someone like Digital Ocean droplet to write code on. If people could get an Apple droplet for 20ish a month I think people would do it, at least indie devs.
 
linuxcooldude said:
Apple still needs the Mac for even developing its iOS platform that can't be done on its iPad/iPhones.
Click to expand...

Is there anything in iOS app dev that could not be accomplished by a version of Mac OS X running on souped up/next gen Apple mobile processors?

linuxcooldude said:
Citation needed on sales information to show the legitimacy of your statement.
Click to expand...

Well, that's tricky, isn't it? Apple won't release exact sales numbers, and everyone here insists that the pro market is too small to be important.

You guys don't get it both ways. It can't be a 3 year old, overpriced, outdated sales success while simultaneously being too small of a market to be worth it for them to pursue.

So I throw it back to you. Cite some number that says it's a success. While I can't definitively prove it, neither can you. The evidence at least leans in my favor.

linuxcooldude said:
They are probably showing interest as they do have a patent on VR with iOS. But it looks like they are going to wait it out to see how its going to be accepted and mature even further.
Click to expand...

They need to show something this year. The market and dev tools are heating up too fast. Because as you point out, people need a Mac for developing, and there is no current mac hardware that supports VR dev or playback.
 
lowendlinux said:
I don't think I'd have an issue using someone like Digital Ocean droplet to write code on. If people could get an Apple droplet for 20ish a month I think people would do it, at least indie devs.
Click to expand...
I had to laugh at this one.

In essence, you're suggesting that the solution to Apple's neglect of Apple workstations would be to bring back Apple servers to run in the cloud....

Not likely. Perhaps Apple will use Hackintosh servers to create an Apple cloud in their datacenters, and then sell you compute time on Apple OSX....
 
lowendlinux said:
I dunno F5 does his renders in the cloud??

I don't think I'd have an issue using someone like Digital Ocean droplet to write code on. If people could get an Apple droplet for 20ish a month I think people would do it, at least indie devs.
Click to expand...

Its also dependent on the internet. No internet, no work done. So are there backups to outages where we can continue working locally? Than why wouldn't we just use what we have locally instead of our dependance on the internet. It could be a good augmentation to what we already have, but not replacement.
 
linuxcooldude said:
Its also dependent on the internet. No internet, no work done. So are there backups to outages where we can continue working locally? Than why wouldn't we just use what we have locally instead of our dependance on the internet. It could be a good augmentation to what we already have, but not replacement.
Click to expand...

Or apple could release a snap like package that someone could use on either linux or windows to develop IOS apps... In short, at this point in time, Apple doesn't even need to sell computers anymore as many technologies and software distribution system exist that could replace them for IOS dev.
 
Jack Burton said:
Well, that's tricky, isn't it? Apple won't release exact sales numbers, and everyone here insists that the pro market is too small to be important.
Click to expand...

While sold in much smaller numbers, it has a higher profit margin with base price starting out at 3K.

So I throw it back to you. Cite some number that says it's a success. While I can't definitively prove it, neither can you. The evidence at least leans in my favor.
Click to expand...

Your the one making that claim, I just want to see the numbers that backup that claim.
 
AidenShaw said:
I had to laugh at this one.

In essence, you're suggesting that the solution to Apple's neglect of Apple workstations would be to bring back Apple servers to run in the cloud....

Not likely. Perhaps Apple will use Hackintosh servers to create an Apple cloud in their datacenters, and then sell you compute time on Apple OSX....
Click to expand...

No I'm not suggesting a solution at all..

I was only objecting to the idea that people won't use cloud based solutions.
 
Perhaps it's reasonable to assume they're trying to come up with a different form factor?

  • They already have experience making traditional desktop, so they can't have decided to go back to that; it wouldn't take them 3 years to develop.
  • It couldn't take them 3 years to develop a new machine with the existing form factor surely, otherwise that sounds like a disaster.
Surely the only logical conclusion is that, perhaps like the Apple Cube, the 2013 model was an experiment but it hasn't worked out as they'd like.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rGiskard
A few points:

No, Apple will NOT solder the next generation's memory down just to spite users. Don't get all hyperbolic.

Apple WILL solder ram to the board, along with everyone else, when DDR-5X, HBM-2 and its ilk becomes standard on motherboards. That's the only way it can work, as the connections need to be kept very, very short and uninterrupted by slots at those speeds. No-one whines when ram is soldered onto graphics cards, do they? You buy a card, or a typical laptop, knowing it will always have that amount of RAM. One day the same will be almost universal for desktops too. Will this be a catastrophe? No. RAM is now cheap enough that it's easy to buy more than you will likely ever need, and flash storage is so fast now that swapping will take care of anything else without hardly skipping a beat.

Everything else eventually WILL be integrated by default in the name of efficiency and, sooner or later, by necessity. This direction is a win for everyone shy of the "but expandability!" retort crowd.

Let's not pretend that speed has taken a step backwards. The nMP was faster in virtually every way than the cMP when comparing similar stock to stock configurations (there may be a few corner cases that are exceptions). The next version (if any) will be faster in almost every way again.

The cMP is now obsolete in a majority of ways (PCIe-2, older SATA, slower memory bandwidth, USB-2, no TB, etc.). It is not some holy shrine of ever-lasting superiority, and a typical gaming PC can easily be far faster and have far more expandability.

Apple is never going to cater to the 1% again (e.g., X-serve), or even the next 2% of Apple's prospective present-day market (cMP-type towers). They aren't and don't pretend to be in that game anymore. They cater to the 95% with laptops and iMacs and reach 97% with the nMP. They are happy with that even if we aren't.

I'm not an apologist. I'm grimly hanging onto my cMP too. I too would like the ability to upgrade graphics cards and have 2 or more internal drive slots. But do you want or need 8 RAM slots, 7 expansion slots and 8 drive bays? Sorry (and I am), but it's time to face the music and leave Apple behind.
 
  • Like
Reactions: koyoot
linuxcooldude said:
While sold in much smaller numbers, it has a higher profit margin with base price starting out at 3K.
Click to expand...

We can agree it's sold in lower numbers, at least. But you don't have any data, either, other than the parts Apple uses to build it are cheaper now than they were at launch.

linuxcooldude said:
Your the one making that claim, I just want to see the numbers that backup that claim.
Click to expand...

I already freely admitted I can't prove it. And I rightly claim you can't prove me wrong, either. So we're stuck with our thumbs up our butts waiting to see if Apple comes out with something new.

Heck, if they came out with an "iMac Pro" like this thing, I'd be over the moon excited. They already make a fantastic 5k display. I'd be happy to get me one of those with a GTX 1080/70 in the back and a 6-core i7.

aura_05-625x350.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: pat500000, rGiskard and ITguy2016
macproconcept.jpg


So I thought i'd try my hand at what I thought a redesign could look like/function. this is a super dirty, quick render in sketchup, so nothing fancy (i'm not that good with that 3D stuff) but i think the main points are there. You'll REALLY have to use your imagination. Basically it's back to a "tower" albeit only 8 in wide by 12 inch deep by 12 tall. So smaller than a cMP, but maybe still portable. It had to come in all the popular colors (haha) and needed a handle so i thought there'd be a sort of cutout in the top vents that when pushed, popped up a handle to carry around (just quickly sketched in there on the pic).

it's essentially bottom to top cooled, like the current nMP, but with two fans at the top (approx 120mm). the large part of the box is taken by the "unified thermal core" where on the facing side, you see 2 PCIe slots. currently they hold two GPUs, but one could swap out the bottom for another type of AIB if one wanted/needed. now, i haven't figured out HOW, but these are standard off the shelf GPUs that could be upgraded. My thinking (and it's not very user-friendly) is that there would be some sort of adjustable adapter, like a copper block that could move to where the actual chip is located on different boards. i guess you'd have to thermal-paste both sides of the copper block to transfer the heat to the core. I don't know, i didn't think it through a whole lot, just tried to get two GPUs with an option to open one for a standard slot.

I didn't get around to the other side or back of the machine, but you can use your imagination to fill in the rest. i'm thinking TWO CPUs on the other side. TWO (maybe 4?) PCIe SSD slots and there may even be room on the other side for a drive bay or two. Obviously RAM slots would be there too. The back would be filled with all your standard, up-to-date port fanfare for external expansion, etc.

So yeah, this is just me thinking out loud. I KNOW there are a thousand reasons why this wouldn't work and why Apple would never dream of doing something like this, but i think it would address SOME of the complaints around here and is sort of a "meet-in-the-middle" compromise. Anyways, again, just for fun. thought maybe it'd light a spark in the thread. let me know what you think!
 
  • Like
Reactions: filmak
Jack Burton said:
We can agree it's sold in lower numbers, at least. But you don't have any data, either, other than the parts Apple uses to build it are cheaper now than they were at launch.
Click to expand...

BTO options on the Mac Pro go all the way to $9,599.00. They don't need to sell at a higher volume to make a higher profit margin on a lower number of sales.
 
tuxon86 said:
You can develop IOS apps on an Air or even using a cloud based, apple managed environment that could be accessed via a simple web browser.
Click to expand...
Have you actually used Xcode? I doubt that would work well through the cloud.

I agree that Apple needs to keep the desktop line alive for development reasons. Sadly I think the 5k iMac is the way they are going.
 
linuxcooldude said:
I think they do. In limited ways. But basing your whole business model in the cloud can be tricky.
Click to expand...
Isn't that what F5 has done?
[doublepost=1468430431][/doublepost]
linuxcooldude said:
BTO options on the Mac Pro go all the way to $9,599.00. They don't need to sell at a higher volume to make a higher profit margin on a lower number of sales.
Click to expand...
That's not the argument on the table. The argument on the table is: Has the nMP been a sales success and is it a higher profit item? No one outside of Apple can say one way or the other. That's what Jack is saying. He's even gone so far as to acknowledge he can't support his theory while the same cannot be said of you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tuxon86
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back