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MP 7,1 Mac Pro T2 chip concerns
- Thread starter g75d3
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"Apple wants it to be a selling point not a deterrent."
I laughed so hard at this I am still laughing. Apple wants to stop selling the mac pro entirely. Is far more likely. Apple wants to stop selling the mac mini.
They would rather sell ipads iphones and macbooks with just the imac. They want 6k for a base machine offering a t2 that is useless for most users. I will grant you maybe a film company may want it for security.
But reality is it is far more likely the nvme m2 ssd crashes and burns then the security issues the t2 chip prevents happens. I smell a class action lawsuit coming in under a year. Once a few companies lose important data due to nvme m2 crashing. A true disgrace to the entire world of computers the new mac pro.
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Making a simple thing like backup boot drives not working with the t2 chip. duh
Here is why it is moron anyone with a real need to have a backup booter will boot with the t2 chip set it up as an emergency only booter. Then bypass to some internal pcie ssd or an external ssd. So the whole effort for security become pointless to anyone needing a back up booter.
The t2 chip needs to be passware driven and allow for a drop in replace able nvme m2 ssd. Or it will be bypassed thus making it use less tech and a hinderance to all. Plus you lose the security value when you bypass it. when you don't bypass it you lose the backup booter option. Any and all lawyers that do class actions are looking at this point "bypass the chip to back up booting lose the security it offers" or "keep the chip for security and lose true backup booting" that is simply wrong. Good luck tim once you get the complaints on this.
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"The T2 chip does not exist to simply make everyone's life difficult. Apple genuinely wants it to be a selling point, not a deterrent."
Hahahahahahaha ... after I'm done with my two minute hate about T2 , get back to me . Apple's so called security is causing some really talented people to lose interest in the platform . One example is Hardware Monitor from Bresink is no longer under development , due to all the Mac's layers of security nonsense . Access to system sensor info is really desirable and Apple wants to head us off at the pass like we're wearing black hats or something . This isn't about protecting us ... it's about controlling us .
Hahahahahahaha ... after I'm done with my two minute hate about T2 , get back to me . Apple's so called security is causing some really talented people to lose interest in the platform . One example is Hardware Monitor from Bresink is no longer under development , due to all the Mac's layers of security nonsense . Access to system sensor info is really desirable and Apple wants to head us off at the pass like we're wearing black hats or something . This isn't about protecting us ... it's about controlling us .
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Don't know if the T2 problems are unique to the MBP. There's two long ass threads about it for 19 months and crashes and audio drop outs are still not fixed.
forums.macrumors.com
forums.macrumors.com
Some very hyper defensive people come along and try to derail the complaints and brush it under the carpet. 1984 stuff.
Any one notices the cracking/popping sound of new 16 inch MBP?
The misconception is there are Apple stores everywhere in the U.S.A simply because Apple is a U.S company. Not true. Many states and cities don't have Apple stores in reachable areas for people to take their products to for repair or exchange.
forums.macrumors.com
2018 MacBook Pros crashing with "Bridge OS" error
MacBook Pro 2019 16" here. Specs don't matter since it's the T2 chip making it run like crap, but 64gb ram, 8-core i9, 8gb amd radeon 5500M. Literally no point to these specs since the T2 crashes my macOS in the exact same way everyone else here is complaining of. T2 model: J152fAP What's...
forums.macrumors.com
Some very hyper defensive people come along and try to derail the complaints and brush it under the carpet. 1984 stuff.
I am definitely not one of those people. In fact some have accused me of being anti-Apple.Don't believe it's over stated and it is an issue unless you're one that believes Apple does no wrong.
I feel it's over stated given the number of T2 Macs in existence. Your opinion may differ, that's fine. Regardless of what either of us thinks about it there's nothing anyone outside of Apple can do about it. The T2 chip is an integral part of the 2019 Mac Pro, you can't get one without it. If the OP wants a 2019 Mac Pro then he has to take the T2, for good or bad, with it.
Yes, there's an argument on both sides of the coin and I believe Apple is locking their computer products down. I don't care what they control within the iPhone but the MP T2 is going to restrict more in the future making these MP's possibly the last I purchase....we shall see.
After the 2013 debacle many including me have moved away to solely Apple product that's why you see a large group of H-ackintosh builds.
After the 2013 debacle many including me have moved away to solely Apple product that's why you see a large group of H-ackintosh builds.
Except not to purchase a computer with a T2 in it
As always the protectors of Apple are given a free ride where opposing views are not permitted.
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The same is valid for you too, you are relentless bashing about T2 to the point that this thread is now useless.As always the protectors of Apple are given a free ride where opposing views are not permitted.
Only one 2019 Mac was released without T2, iMac 2019, probably because it's the only Mac that can still be bought without flash storage and T2 won't work with just HDDs on a Mac. 2020 will probably be the year that all Macs will have a T2, Apple won't backtrack from it's roadmap.
It's a lot more productive to work with Apple to overcome the current limitations/problems, like ESXi support or NAND module pairing outside AASPs, than trying to just bash it.
If you read the complete thread in context you would realize I'm not the only person opining negatively on the T2. You would also notice that the post by "thisisnotmyname" had nothing to do with this thread but you seem to not point this out or post on this being non productive. Why?
The thread is not useless unless there's only one opinion which maybe you prefer and what I would consider useless.
"ESXi support or NAND module pairing outside AASPs" concur.
You should buy a PC then... oh wait, HP is shipping the Endpoint Security Controller, the exact same thing.
Yup. Apple is playing catch up with the PC world, since we've had Secure Boot, OPAL, TPM, HP Endpoint Security Controller, Intel ME features... Basically all of the T2 features have been implemented in PCs before Apple has.
The header for this thread is "Mac T2 chip concerns". It seems that certain posters believe that one can only post in a certain direction or the thread is considered "useless".
Definition:
Concern: a matter of interest or importance to someone.
For some time I’ve been trying to rationalize the T2 hate besides ESXi not being supported and outside AASP NAND modules pairing, the only thing that I can think of is the fear that 6 or 7 year down the road, when the last non-T2 Mac is obsolete, Apple will kill hackintoshes. Nothing else justifies this relentlessly bashing, since like you properly said workstations and servers already have equivalent resources for years.
Anyway, 7 years from now Apple could fully replace Intel with Ax CPUs…
The answer to your concerns is "too bad". If you want a good computer today and in the future, Mac, PC or smartphone, you get a security coprocessor, secure boot, hardware disk encryption, etc. Such is the state of computer security.
If you want this situation to change, get people stop hacking computers.
Read NIST SP800-193. Apple has to lock down their systems via hardware if their products are going to be purchased by the government and regulated industries like finance and healthcare. Just like how other PCs are.
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Whatever the concern one has about the T2 is essentially irrelevant. The 2019 Mac Pro has a T2 chip as an integral part of the system, you can't buy one without it. If the OP wants to buy a 2019 Mac Pro his concerns are irrelevant because he can't buy one without the T2 chip.
Why didn't you mention "right to repair" ?? Concern.
www.theverge.com
Government and regulated industries like finance and healthcare the majority of these use PC's not Mac's and you will never stop the hacking of computers. I don't need this security and I want to be able to change certain components like a PC in the MP without sending it to Apple.
Apple confirms its T2 security chip blocks some third-party repairs of new Macs
A supposed kill switch built into computers with Apple’s new T2 chip may shut out third-party repairs.
Recommendation/guideline
Government and regulated industries like finance and healthcare the majority of these use PC's not Mac's and you will never stop the hacking of computers. I don't need this security and I want to be able to change certain components like a PC in the MP without sending it to Apple.
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Right to repair, ******** again? No one repair so tightly integrated components and Macs never were of-the-shelf PCs. Repair as self replacement of failed parts I’ll accept the argument but it’s just the NAND blade pairing process that is a problem with T2.
T2 NAND modules are integral of the T2 security and storage system. T2 iMac Pro modules can be bought used today and some people allegedly got it working, probably with leaked internal Apple software to do the pairing. Supposedly one Chinese MP7,1 seems to have access to it, from taobao posts.
If Apple provide the T2 replacement documentation, include the pairing process with Apple Configurator and work with VMware for ESXi access, I’ll have zero concerns with MP7,1 and T2.
I already have a gorgeous Supermicro UP Cascade Lake workstation with 4 x 300W class GPU compute , running Windows 10 Pro Workstation and Oracle Linux ( free RHEL ) . There are no blocks to accessing sensor information , system wide , at all . Strange how Apple can't follow their lead ... By the way , I've been using Apple computers for the last four decades .
Concur.
and Yes, "right to repair" is a concern..Still.
Started with an Quadra950 not a iPhone.
Yeah you don't know about security and regulation. Do some more Googling.
It's a "recommendation" because it doesn't have the force of law in itself. The method used to draft it was not as open as regulations are. However contracts and laws can require compliance. Look at FISMA, that law turns around and mandates SP 800-53.
Regulation in finance and healthcare is similar. You can point at compliance to existing standards or you can prove to the regulators your standards are safe, in an exercise that costs tens of millions of dollars.
You're free not to comply with them, but the government is free not to buy from you or demand that you prove, through piles of papework, that your own way is safe.
It boils to this:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Are you saying that the T2 chip violates the Constitution of the United States of America ? wow thats heavy .....
You know better than that. Unless you make a PC with totally of-the-shelf parts, your will be limited by TPM/OPAL/ME/firmware locks/etc. Not one workstation built by the big companies today is free as you are thinking. 2020 Intel CPUs won't even support CSM at all anymore…
This thread is beyond stupid now.
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BTW, for people that can't read between the lines, CSM support removed from 2020 Intel CPUs means that SecureBoot is enforced.
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