MP 7,1 Mac Pro T2 chip concerns

[thevault]

You know better than that. Unless you make a PC with totally of-the-shelf parts, your will be limited by TPM/OPAL/ME/firmware locks/etc. Not one workstation built by the big companies today is free as you are thinking. 2020 Intel CPUs won't even support CSM at all anymore…

This thread is beyond stupid now.
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BTW, for people that can't read between the lines, CSM support removed from 2020 Intel CPUs means that SecureBoot is enforced.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Good old Ben....some don't know better

Is someone forcing you to participate...... and CSM support removal is going to be a HW nightmare, but it comes down to your statement. Read what you posted (again...without the drama).

" If Apple provide the T2 replacement documentation, include the pairing process with Apple Configurator and work with VMware for ESXi access, I’ll have zero concerns with MP7,1 and T2."

Yeah you don't know about security and regulation. Do some more Googling.

It's a "recommendation" because it doesn't have the force of law in itself. The method used to draft it was not as open as regulations are. However contracts and laws can require compliance. Look at FISMA, that law turns around and mandates SP 800-53.

Regulation in finance and healthcare is similar. You can point at compliance to existing standards or you can prove to the regulators your standards are safe, in an exercise that costs tens of millions of dollars.

You're free not to comply with them, but the government is free not to buy from you or demand that you prove, through piles of papework, that your own way is safe.

Good answer on "right to repair".

 

[tsialex]

Good answer on "right to repair".

Repair what? You can't repair anything on a PC nowadays. You can replace failed parts, you as an end user can't repair anything on it.

 

[philipma1957]

It is very simple a locked down pc with only 1 protected hdd ssd nvme m.2 secured by a chip flys in the face of proper boot backup procedures. So Apple will be forced to allow 2 nvme or 2 ssd or 2 hdd to nestles under the security chip. maybe not this year but soon. Frankly anyone buying any apple with a t2 chip is doing the entire world of computing zero favors. And anyone defending a single drive for t2 chip as security is doing anyone zero favors. compromise is very simple allow 2 booting drives to link to your security chip.

Apple and any company not doing this is going to lose out down the road. I would have a new mac pro it I could simply have 2 drives directly link to the security chip. Heck it is a T2 should be for 2 drives.

Instead I now need to wait for a Dual T2 unit.

 

[thevault]

Repair what? You can't repair anything on a PC nowadays. You can replace failed parts, you as an end user can't repair anything on it.

Again, my main complaint with the T2 with reference to the MP is not having control over the SSD for replacement or MBP can't change SSD/CPU. You should start reading about Apple lock down in regards to "right to repair" which I posted one article that you did't read but keep pushing your drama on how this thread has turned stupid.?

There's repair shops that repair motherboard components that you don't have the skill but others do and make a living at it. Sounds like you're not familiar with "right to repair"in the USA.

 

[konqerror]

Good answer on "right to repair".

Your right to repair does not override my right not to get my personal data, credit cards stolen or my website DDoSed by your computer. And the government and industry thinks the same way with cybersecurity regulations like FISMA, HIPAA, GLBA, CCPA, PCI-DSS, NIST SP800, etc.

 

[tsialex]

Again, my main complaint with the T2 with reference to the MP is not having control over the SSD for replacement or MBP can't change SSD/CPU. You should start reading about Apple lock down in regards to "right to repair" which I posted one article that you did't read but keep pushing your drama on how this thread has turned stupid.?

There's repair shops that repair motherboard components that you don't have the skill but others do and make a living at it. Sounds like you're not familiar with "right to repair"in the USA.

So you are modifying my statement to fit your right to repair dream? What end user repairs anything since at least Apple III/GS/Amiga 3000? Please go on with your iFixIt/Lois Rossmann mantra, this ship sunk a long ago, with VLSI, SMD and short development cycles.

Next year you will be raving that your of-the-shelf PC with 2020 Intel processors won't permit you run your old OS releases anymore and you can only run what is SecureBoot signed.

 

[Quu]

Had my 16" MacBook Pro since launch day and I've not had any bridgeOS problems. I'm using an external audio interface for Logic Pro X. No problems there.

I installed Windows on the machine recently for testing, no problems doing that, worked perfectly. I also installed macOS on an external drive and booted from it, no problems there either.

If the T2 has some issues I've not come across them yet, I wouldn't be concerned purchasing a new Mac Pro which has this chip based on my mileage so far.

 

[philipma1957]

Translation :

I let Apple rob me as I paid for a secure T2 chip I don't use. I bypassed it externally. Thus sacrificing my security from a hack to allow backed up boot drives.



My opinion is this : You are enabling a rich company rob you. Don't buy apple until they make a dual t2 chip option.

 

[Brien]

So you are modifying my statement to fit your right to repair dream? What end user repairs anything since at least Apple III/GS/Amiga 3000? Please go on with your iFixIt/Lois Rossmann mantra, this ship sunk a long ago, with VLSI, SMD and short development cycles.

Next year you will be raving that your of-the-shelf PC with 2020 Intel processors won't permit you run your old OS releases anymore and you can only run what is SecureBoot signed.

The shame is the days of hobbyists are clearly dead, and the way things are going I would not be surprised in the least if 5-10 years down the road end users have literally no control over their device (signed store app only, online/cloud only, no local accounts, completely sealed boxes, etc.).

 

[grad]

I call it the "evil chip". And this is all you need to know.

 

[defjam]

So you are modifying my statement to fit your right to repair dream? What end user repairs anything since at least Apple III/GS/Amiga 3000? Please go on with your iFixIt/Lois Rossmann mantra, this ship sunk a long ago, with VLSI, SMD and short development cycles.

Looks over at my Apple IIc and hugs it

 

[fuchsdh]

Don't know if the T2 problems are unique to the MBP. There's two long ass threads about it for 19 months and crashes and audio drop outs are still not fixed.

Any one notices the cracking/popping sound of new 16 inch MBP?

The misconception is there are Apple stores everywhere in the U.S.A simply because Apple is a U.S company. Not true. Many states and cities don't have Apple stores in reachable areas for people to take their products to for repair or exchange.

forums.macrumors.com

2018 MacBook Pros crashing with "Bridge OS" error

MacBook Pro 2019 16" here. Specs don't matter since it's the T2 chip making it run like crap, but 64gb ram, 8-core i9, 8gb amd radeon 5500M. Literally no point to these specs since the T2 crashes my macOS in the exact same way everyone else here is complaining of. T2 model: J152fAP What's...

forums.macrumors.com

Some very hyper defensive people come along and try to derail the complaints and brush it under the carpet. 1984 stuff.

Arguing that threads on Macrumors equate a widespread issue is more 1984 than anything I’ve seen otherwise.

And people quoting Franklin when talking about their computing products are just showing their asses. If you don’t like the pool, don’t swim in it. Grow up and move on with your lives.

 

[goMac]

There are a ton of us that are _required_ to run our Macs with FileVault. T2 is an amazing upgrade for that. No more worrying about sacrificing performance because of a job requirement.

I’m not even technically allowed to grant anyone else access to my MacBook, even at something like a TSA line.

It’s a bit odd on a tower, but not useless. Same encryption rules apply to any of my work computers.

 

[philipma1957]

I really believe in a T2 chip concept and encrypted drives, but not at the cost of only 1 boot slot covered by it.

Simplest fix is a t2 chip or dual t2 chip which allows for 2 covered boot drives in a raid 1 or as jbod one for windows one for mac. To force me to lose the t2 chip if I want backed up boot drives is not acceptable.

Think of a crucial boot drive in a slide in style mac pro server. It fails system down for days.

or bypass the t2 booter to have backed up booters and you are hacked.

Not acceptable. I would need to mirror mac pro a to mac pro b using the t2 chips.

Costing me $$$$ to have encrypted backup using t2 chips in 2 separate machines.

Fairly sure I could rig this up at a cost of 6000 + 6000 for 2 mac pros.


Duh real smart on apples part.

 

[Somian]

I have a T2 enabled iMac Pro. For about a year, I couldn't install windows 10 via Bootcamp. An update eventually fixed it.

no, I'm not.
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Those two are not the same thing. In any case, if they lock out pirated MacOS, good!

Is it pirated MacOS if you repair your Mac with non-apple parts and then try to re-install macOS which is necessary for the functionality of the computer?

 

[Snow Tiger]

The shame is the days of hobbyists are clearly dead, and the way things are going I would not be surprised in the least if 5-10 years down the road end users have literally no control over their device (signed store app only, online/cloud only, no local accounts, completely sealed boxes, etc.).

Not completely dead , but on critical life support . I'm old enough to remember the Apple User support clubs back in the late 1970's and early 1980's . When Apple product users were fanatically helpful to other users face to face ( this was pre WWW when only a few ppl were using the $5 an hour BBS services like GENIE ) . The local independent computer stores ( they sold Apple products ) all had repair shops in the back where real techs knew things like board level repair work . This was the world I knew when I was growing up and it was a beautiful , magical time . We all did cool tech projects and not fluffy stuff , either . Yes , I believe strongly in right to repair . And to use your property any way you like . And to be a wild dog running free without a collar . It's what the two Steves believed in back in the day when they IDed IBM as a horrible control freak monster that wanted people to simply conform silently and pay for the privilege . I try my best to continue that worldview . Its my essence and I won't let anyone , not even modern Apple , Inc ., change that . Hell , they're the ones who taught me to be this way and I won't let them forget it !

 

[thevault]

Definitely on critical life support and we're living in a different society that only cares how fast it's at their fingertips.

 

[Ian Sampson]

I received my Mac Book Pro 2019 13" IN FEB 2019. Yes I knew that a new one was coming out but this was for work.
Since day 1 I have had issues with the T2 chip crashes.
This week. Apple admitted the logic board was faulty. The unit had been back to them twice already and they didn't bother do fix anything.
They are now shipping me a new 2020 as a replacement BUT here are some hard facts

1. They have had it twice for almost 4 weeks in total so far
2. I have to send the old machine to them first and then they will order me a new replacement. They won't just swop or fix it.
3. Its going to take 2-3 weeks at least to get the replacement.

This was build to order device and not cheep. This is possibly the worst service I have ever received from a company.

I have had lots of calls with apple and literately spent weeks on emails, reinstalls from scratch, diagnostics logs and chasing them.
I have upgraded to the latest patch and nothing fixes the issue. Seriously this is rubbish
I have lost documents I was working on
I have been asked to not plug in monitors, USB devices, Not use bluetooth whilst they diagnosed the issues
I have basically been let down.


Last crash report

Apple Kernel Panic 29th May





{"caused_by":"bridgeos","macos_version":"Mac OS X 10.15.5 (19F96)","os_version":"Bridge OS 4.5 (17P5290)","macos_system_state":"sleep","incident_id":"ADFDCFD9-08C5-4D35-AEEE-3E4D3CE3280A","timestamp":"2020-05-28 19:08:22.00 +0000","bug_type":"210"}


{


"build" : "Bridge OS 4.5 (17P5290)",


"product" : "iBridge2,4",


"kernel" : "Darwin Kernel Version 19.5.0: Thu Apr 30 23:53:45 PDT 2020; root:xnu-6153.120.31~33\/RELEASE_ARM64_T8010",


"incident" : "ADFDCFD9-08C5-4D35-AEEE-3E4D3CE3280A",


"crashReporterKey" : "c0dec0dec0dec0dec0dec0dec0dec0dec0de0001",


"date" : "2020-05-28 19:08:21.78 +0000",


"panicString" : "panic(cpu 0 caller 0xfffffff01ae33e90): userspace watchdog timeout: no successful checkins from com.apple.bridgeaudiod in 180 seconds\nservice: com.apple.dfrd, total successful checkins since load (129835 seconds ago): 12983, last successful checkin: 0 seconds ago\nservice: com.apple.UserEventAgent-System, total successful checkins since load (129835 seconds ago): 12984, last successful checkin: 0 seconds ago\nservice: com.apple.bridgeaudiod, total successful checkins since load (129835 seconds ago): 12966, last successful checkin: 180 seconds ago\nservice: com.apple.logd, total successful checkins since load (129835 seconds ago): 12984, last successful checkin: 0 seconds ago\n\nDebugger message: panic\nMemory ID: 0x6\nOS version: 17P5290\nmacOS version: 19F96\nKernel version: Darwin Kernel Version 19.5.0: Thu Apr 30 23:53:45 PDT 2020; root:xnu-6153.120.31~33\/RELEASE_ARM64_T8010\nKernel UUID: 7715F68C-C691-3BB5-92A7-F624CBCF7221\niBoot version: iBoot-5540.125.4\nsecure boot?: YES\nx86 EFI Boot State: 0x16\nx86 System State: 0x1\nx86 Power State: 0x1\nx86 Shutdown Cause: 0x7\nx86 Previous Power Transitions: 0x100010001\nPCIeUp link state: 0x36894700\nPaniclog version: 13\nKernel slide: 0x00000000129c0000\nKernel text base: 0xfffffff0199c4000\nmach_absolute_time: 0x2d58d31909b\nEpoch Time: sec usec\n Boot : 0x5ece10e6 0x000bd93c\n Sleep : 0x00000000 0x00000000\n Wake : 0x00000000 0x00000000\n Calendar: 0x5ed00c14 0x000adf51\n\nTotal cpu_usage: 11477514\nThread task pri cpu_usage\n0xffffffe000fb4fd8 watchdogd 97 0\n0xffffffe001194fd8 dfrd 37 0\n0xffffffe000fb5fb0 dfrd 31 0\n0xffffffe000f12a40 watchdogd 31 0\n0xffffffe000101520 kernel_task 0 5467081\n\nPanicked task 0xffffffe000ee4200: 179 pages, 3 threads: pid 33: watchdogd\nPanicked thread: 0xffffffe000fb4fd8, backtrace: 0xffffffe015a7b000, tid: 767\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a288878 fp: 0xffffffe015a7b040\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a2886d4 fp: 0xffffffe015a7b0b0\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a3a3350 fp: 0xffffffe015a7b160\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a85162c fp: 0xffffffe015a7b170\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a28803c fp: 0xffffffe015a7b4e0\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a288394 fp: 0xffffffe015a7b530\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01b0be934 fp: 0xffffffe015a7b550\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01ae33e90 fp: 0xffffffe015a7b570\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01ae33bcc fp: 0xffffffe015a7b590\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a7e6cec fp: 0xffffffe015a7b5f0\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01ae33120 fp: 0xffffffe015a7b6d0\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a7efd38 fp: 0xffffffe015a7b860\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a372da4 fp: 0xffffffe015a7b980\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a28e038 fp: 0xffffffe015a7b9e0\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a263cf0 fp: 0xffffffe015a7ba60\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a27bd90 fp: 0xffffffe015a7bb10\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a399c34 fp: 0xffffffe015a7bbd0\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a3a34a8 fp: 0xffffffe015a7bc80\n\t\t lr: 0xfffffff01a85162c fp: 0xffffffe015a7bc90\n\t\t lr: 0x00000001eda0e198 fp: 0x0000000000000000\n\n",


"panicFlags" : "0x2",


"otherString" : "\n** Stackshot Succeeded ** Bytes Traced 116656 **\n",


"macOSPanicFlags" : "0x0",


"macOSPanicString" : "BAD MAGIC! (flag set in iBoot panic header), no macOS panic log available",


"memoryStatus" : {"compressorSize":0,"compressions":0,"decompressions":0,"busyBufferCount":0,"pageSize":16384,"memoryPressure":false,"memoryPages":{"active":8664,"throttled":0,"fileBacked":16368,"wired":5757,"purgeable":42,"inactive":8439,"free":2739,"speculative":4726}},


"processByPid" : {

 

[MGrayson3]

I received my Mac Book Pro 2019 13" IN FEB 2019. Yes I knew that a new one was coming out but this was for work.
Since day 1 I have had issues with the T2 chip crashes.
This week. Apple admitted the logic board was faulty. The unit had been back to them twice already and they didn't bother do fix anything.
They are now shipping me a new 2020 as a replacement BUT here are some hard facts

1. They have had it twice for almost 4 weeks in total so far
2. I have to send the old machine to them first and then they will order me a new replacement. They won't just swop or fix it.
3. Its going to take 2-3 weeks at least to get the replacement.

This was build to order device and not cheep. This is possibly the worst service I have ever received from a company.

If the worst service you've ever received from a company ends with them sending you a new, more recent model, you have led a charmed life. I suggest that you never file an insurance claim. The shock will be lethal.

 

[Ian Sampson]

If the worst service you've ever received from a company ends with them sending you a new, more recent model, you have led a charmed life. I suggest that you never file an insurance claim. The shock will be lethal.

I did file a claim against SAGA for my mother in law and that was bad, but a 2k5 machine brand new with so many faults and they won't believe me is shocking.

 

[Ethosik]

I did file a claim against SAGA for my mother in law and that was bad, but a 2k5 machine brand new with so many faults and they won't believe me is shocking.

Did they really say they didn't believe you? Those are just troubleshooting steps. They can't give out new computers to someone that can have their existing one fixed by a troubleshooting process.

Also, it doesn't matter how much something is. I spent $1,200 on a graphics card. A SINGLE COMPONENT that was faulty. Don't be in the tech world if you cannot deal with some faulty products. These things happen.

 

[Ian Sampson]

Yes they did say we can't find any issues on the report from the repair centre.
The first report stated that they had reseated a cable to fix the fault.
The second was no fault found.
Then whilst they were remotely connected to my machine it failed and they saw the faults. The tune changed after that point. Seriously its a good job I am in IT as a normal person wouldn't have persisted.
I had one engineer ask me if I could disable the encryption to the disk as there was clear evidence of the bridge software T2 chip issues. That was back in early May.

The T2 and bridge issues don't occur all the time and they are related to a specific setup. The tests they have performed int he lab obviously don't stress the machine in the same way.

I have screenshots and videos and lots of evidence that I eventually had to upload to apple to prove the faults
Everything from logs, screenshots of the WiFi failing lots, Crash logs and exports. I provided the same information multiple times and then they changed their tune.

I have had almost every type of laptop I even had a Lenovo when it was IBM that had basically every part changed over the course of a year. At no time did IBM cause me any trouble. They used to ship me a part and an engineer would turn up the very next day. That was service.

I have had other apple laptops that have had to have the motherboard changed (pre T2) and that wasn't really an issue. This one has been a customer relations disaster. It was 6 weeks old when I first reported it at the start of April and I won't have a resolution until late June early July! I fully appreciate Covid has caused some of this but given the evidence I have Apple should have done something sooner.


Customers vote with their wallet and I know where my money will be going in the future.

 

[konqerror]

I have had almost every type of laptop I even had a Lenovo when it was IBM that had basically every part changed over the course of a year. At no time did IBM cause me any trouble.

We had a $20,000 Lenovo workstation at work completely lock up with internal "general error" code (this model has internal hardware diagnostics that work even if the CPUs fail). They swapped everything on it, motherboard, CPUs, GPUs, RAM. Kept happening. They said "too bad" must be software. Other nearly identical systems have no problem. It still hard locks doing random stuff every few weeks.

Customers vote with their wallet and I know where my money will be going in the future.

With technology cycles these days and blatant outsourcing to ODMs, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I have a question for those who would like to buy new 2019 Mac Pro. Are you concerned about T2 chip? It has been source of various problems such as “Bridge OS” crashes, audio dropouts when using external usb audio interface(on MacBook pros since 2018, including current 16 inch, MacBook Air 2018, iMac Pro ,Mac Mini 2018). May be Apple quietly made a different revision and fixed it? It would be interesting to know which revision of T2 chip does 2019 Mac Pro have.

I have the 7,1 Mac and the t2 is what I hate most about it. It just sucks.

Here’s one thing, so if you set the system boot up bong on, that setting is stored on the t2 drive. But if you boot from a pci drive (because you don’t want to use the fetid not-ssd tied to the t2) the “pram” setting are stored on the t2 not-an-ssd. Which means if that t2 drive is not mounted when you set that setting, the setting can get out of sync with your pci drive. And sometimes it will bong, and sometimes not.

So now I keep it mounted all the time just so any pram boot settings will stick, but I’m also forced to update the os on the t2-not-an-ssd along with my real pci Boot drive, just to make sure there is not some weird conflict. This has the added benefit of creating a 2nd ‘ghost” machine listed in my list of Apple devices under my AppleID of the “new machine” from when it boots the t2-not-an-ssd drive. And as a bonus, because appleid gets confused from the same machine booting 2 ways like that, often after booting in one or another, I have to f’n re-enter my appleid account upon boot for it to correct itself.

This is just but a taste of the crap show that is the t2. It is by far the worst part of this machine other than it’s now ancient sub components and insane price gouging. The case is a bit dumb for not opening while operating, the promise j2i cage should have been included. That said, the rest of the machine (outside Catalina problems) is pretty nice. But the machine in most of the ways that count is solid.

 

[yurc]

I have a question for those who would like to buy new 2019 Mac Pro. Are you concerned about T2 chip? It has been source of various problems such as “Bridge OS” crashes, audio dropouts when using external usb audio interface(on MacBook pros since 2018, including current 16 inch, MacBook Air 2018, iMac Pro ,Mac Mini 2018). May be Apple quietly made a different revision and fixed it? It would be interesting to know which revision of T2 chip does 2019 Mac Pro have.

At this moment, T2 chips sometimes blocking certain USB driver from loading in OS. When checking logs, it would show T2 interferes error log on my 2018 15 inch MBP . On older Mac Pro which doesn’t have T2 chips, they loaded just fine. So T2 was real culprit in my case. Those happened on Wacom USB driver, Logitech and USB Overdrive. T2 is also not playing nice with ESXi unless with some workarounds.

Apple is trying I believe to shut down "H-ackintosh" and "right to repair".

Nope. T2 doesn’t kill hackintosh. It just advanced version of SMC with more capabilities (hardware decoding etc). Instead, older Macs will get benefits of Hackintosh technology in last scene when Apple done with them.