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Mac Pro - the End of an ERA?

Mago said:
Actually this one is the most likely prediction, MBP issues had Apple cornered, its know they where working on a water-dust proof butterfly kbd.) add to this pressure the MBP are the top selling macs by far.

Denials seek to sell current MBP inventory (now on rebate 450$ less) ... so where you bet your eggs ? on the MBP or the iPad Pro with FaceID ?
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iPad Pro is way more likely. Any serious MBP revision will be waiting on Intel. A small bump if there are any better Kaby Lake CPUs available.

The scuttlebutt online is there is a major revision being worked on with stuff like the keyboard changes, but that won't be until further out in the year or maybe into 2019, which I agree with. Everyone here tends to think Apple works a lot quicker than they actually do. Going back and addressing things like the keyboard and the ports and whatever will probably be done all at once, and will take longer than people think, in addition to it probably being linked to Intel's next CPU and AMD's next GPU.
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mattspace said:
No, AMD hardware IS the problem - Full-fat Vega 64 is the best AMD has to offer for VR applications, and it's the equivalent of a regular 1080, so frankly, below table stakes for any sort of serious VR. Over on Nvidia's side of the fence, above the best you can get from AMD, you have 1080ti, Titan XP and Titan V (if you want to go nuts).
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The 1080 Ti isn't that much faster than the 1080, and Titans are a ridiculous suggestion for consumer VR consumption. (Workstation grade cards would be good for VR creation on something like a Mac Pro, but I think this thread has already been over that. Or at least one of these threads.)

Plus on the Mac, Nvidia's Metal drivers are not so good, so I'm not sure the suggestion that a 1080 Ti on the Mac would perform better for Metal VR apps is really true.
 
goMac said:
The 1080 Ti isn't that much faster than the 1080, and Titans are a ridiculous suggestion for consumer VR consumption. (Workstation grade cards would be good for VR creation on something like a Mac Pro, but I think this thread has already been over that. Or at least one of these threads.)

Plus on the Mac, Nvidia's Metal drivers are not so good, so I'm not sure the suggestion that a 1080 Ti on the Mac would perform better for Metal VR apps is really true.
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for high resolution (which is the big difference between AMD and Nvidia's options), the TI is a significant step over the 1080, and again, the TI is the minimum you'd want for an "all day" workstation.

I'm not sure workstation cards are really useful - almost all VR titles are done in game engines, which makes me think game optimised cards are a better idea. Consumer VR consumption isn't the question - we're talking Pro apps - a $3k GPU every 12-18 months, to get capabilities several levels above anything available on the Mac really isn't a big ask in the grand scheme of things.

And yeah, Metal being garbage on Nvidia is a reason to dump the Mac for VR, not a reason to use AMD.
 
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mattspace said:
And yeah, Metal being garbage on Nvidia is a reason to dump the Mac for VR, not a reason to use AMD.
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Honestly that's probably the best way to look at it. Apple isn't going to include Nvidia GPUs, and Nvidia may never get together well working Metal drivers.

AMD is going to keep working on Vega, but if you're dead set on Nvidia I don't know why you'd be still sticking around here. (Not you specifically, more like everyone here.)
 
goMac said:
The scuttlebutt online is there is a major revision being worked on with stuff like the keyboard changes,
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Stop reading daringfireball, gurman seems has a an agreement with retailers to deny any imminent WWDC hardware release, on the record: MBP and iMac/iMac Pro, C/net portal has its own predictions and includes MBP at first stage, having more "leaks" on a product doesnt means no extra products updates, Is not Apple interest their customer being aware a replacement for the problematic MBP'16-17 is coming, it means for cook stuck inventory it will froze MBP sales and force sell remaining inventory on big rebates or at refurb store. Add this the MBP are the best selling macs account about or more than half mac sales.
 
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Mago said:
Stop reading daringfireball, gurman seems has a an agreement with retailers to deny any imminent WWDC hardware release, on the record: MBP and iMac/iMac Pro, C/net portal has its own predictions and includes MBP at first stage, having more "leaks" on a product doesnt means no extra products updates, Is not Apple interest their customer being aware a replacement for the problematic MBP'16-17 is coming, it means for cook stuck inventory it will froze MBP sales and force sell remaining inventory on big rebates or at refurb store. Add this the MBP are the best selling macs account about or more than half mac sales.
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There won't be a rev unless Apple has CPUs to use, regardless of keyboard issues. Kaby Lake G is an option, but I think Apple will hold out for Coffee Lake (they may not get on the G train because otherwise they're stuck waiting for Coffee Lake G.)

Coffee Lake would be end of this year or beginning of next, which lines up nicely with the rumors of the next big upgrade. In the mean time, they could do a small Kaby spec bump without changing the form factor. They'll save form factor and keyboard fixes for Coffee Lake.

People will keep complaining about the keyboard, but people have been complaining about the Mac Pro 2013 and that hasn't stopped them from moving slowly. They've also been tweaking the keyboard slightly over time, which would make me think if they were abandoning the design completely, they wouldn't have started that until recently.

So... At most I think tiny Kaby Lake bump, no other changes to MBP.

(Another option is maybe they show off a Coffee Lake MBP early, like the iMac Pro, but with the state of Coffee Lake and the way that would tank sales... boy that seems risky.)
 
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goMac said:
There won't be a rev unless Apple has CPUs to use, regardless of keyboard issues. Kaby Lake G is an option, but I think Apple will hold out for Coffee Lake (they may not get on the G train because otherwise they're stuck waiting for Coffee Lake G.)

Coffee Lake would be end of this year or beginning of next, which lines up nicely with the rumors of the next big upgrade. In the mean time, they could do a small Kaby spec bump without changing the form factor. They'll save form factor and keyboard fixes for Coffee Lake.

People will keep complaining about the keyboard, but people have been complaining about the Mac Pro 2013 and that hasn't stopped them from moving slowly. They've also been tweaking the keyboard slightly over time, which would make me think if they were abandoning the design completely, they wouldn't have started that until recently.

So... At most I think tiny Kaby Lake bump, no other changes to MBP.

(Another option is maybe they show off a Coffee Lake MBP early, like the iMac Pro, but with the state of Coffee Lake and the way that would tank sales... boy that seems risky.)
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Meanwhile...:D

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...ent-delays-suggest-new-models-inbound-at-wwdc
 
thepixelpusher said:
What smart studios look for when buying CG hardware

http://www.cgchannel.com/2018/04/what-smart-studios-look-for-when-buying-cg-hardware/

"The company is just completing the process of migrating from its old Mac tower workstations to new Windows 10 machines supplied by Lenovo."
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This article really emphasizes how far Apple has fallen in the creative pro market.

And statements like the systems are all dual Xeon and "The studio uses NVIDIA graphics cards: always two or three per workstation" show that the Amigos are unlikely to right the ship.

The Amigos' mea culpa about the trash can was basically that they thought that a pair of mediocre AMD GPUs was where the market was heading. Wow, did they miss the mark.

And I'm afraid that the big design decisions for the mMP will be whether to call the color of the case
"Deep Space Grey" or "Graphite".
 
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AidenShaw said:
The Amigos' mea culpa about the trash can was basically that they thought that a pair of mediocre AMD GPUs was where the market was heading. Wow, did they miss the mark.
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This has always been the most astonishing aspect concerning the tcMP for me. Like, just for the sake of argument, pretend that Apple was able to actively update the CPU & GPUs in it up until now, and that some segments of professional softwares did end up utilizing dual GPU approach. But even with that premise, the rest of the workstation markets wouldn't have exclusively invested in this because the traditional tower form factor has nothing wrong performance wise. In fact, a cheese grater or ATX tower can utilize dual GPU better than a thermal core as long as there are excessive TDP headroom. The tcMP would have remained to be as inferior as a solution to much of the professional spaces.

So they didn't just design themselves into a thermal corner, the real problem is that it's a really SMALL thermal corner. Instances like this tells me Apple was willingly discarding themselves from the professional market, regardless of what they have been saying since the roundtable.
 
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goMac said:
Doesn't preclude a small bump. I just said that I don't think there will be a major update at WWDC.
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They said nothing until 2019. so I don't think they'll have anything to show. My guess is that they'll show the tease of the new Mac Pro in the fall.
 
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goMac said:
Doesn't preclude a small bump. I just said that I don't think there will be a major update at WWDC.
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Hardware wise, at WWDC, I think Apple will do something to iPad Mini. And no other updates to iPad Pro line before fall. iPad Pro 8, with oled screen and a price tag.
Then we could see an anniversary iMac line with Intel EMIB Vega M 65W/100W TDP. And a new Mac mini, with either a similar tech, or a matchbox sized version with Intel core chips.
Laptops get maybe T2 and a price cut.

It would be nice to have a mMP preview.

Most of the show is to review next versions of every Apple OS there is. macOS is as important as tvOS. I hope there's a new framework for AR/VR for macOS.
 
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That article is a superb insight into what is driving creative companies requiring powerful computing right now. It should make chilling reading for Apple.

From my experience, it’s a lot of small creative businesses still sticking with Apple - solo graphic designers, visual artists etc. A lot of those people grew up using Apple and nothing else. A huge amount of authors, screenwriters etc seem to exclusively use Apple - for a company with single-digit overall market share, their percentage of these fields seems huge.

But for anyone needing lots of cores and GPU power, the message is clear. Switch to Windows - if you haven’t already - or fail to compete with those who have.
 
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thepixelpusher said:
What smart studios look for when buying CG hardware

http://www.cgchannel.com/2018/04/what-smart-studios-look-for-when-buying-cg-hardware/

"The company is just completing the process of migrating from its old Mac tower workstations to new Windows 10 machines supplied by Lenovo."
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"In this sponsored article..." not a lot more biased and different than reading this: https://www.apple.com/business/

Apple's site is quite eye opening too, what comes to the presence of the Mac. Nearly same as in the Lenovos sponsored article. "Move your Mac processes to this..." https://www.apple.com/business/success-stories/
 
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Zarniwoop said:
"In this sponsored article..." not a lot more biased and different than reading this: https://www.apple.com/business/

Apple's site is quite eye opening too, what comes to the presence of the Mac. Nearly same as in the Lenovos sponsored article. "Move your Mac processes to this..." https://www.apple.com/business/success-stories/
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Fair enough, yet the cgchannel article is ging into detail, is based on actual use and told by an expert .
Something Apple avoids like the plague .
Their little success stories also pale a little when you consider that there are valid alternatives to Apple products in every field - and those are being used more commonly by a large margin .

Biased and anecdotal the article may be, but it raises a lot of valid points, and covers a wide array of the issues Mac development is facing .
 
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Zarniwoop said:
Apple's site is quite eye opening too, what comes to the presence of the Mac.
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Not a single desktop computer mentioned or pictured on either of the two Apple pages you linked. Just a few dozen case studies and photos of happy employees using iPads and iPhones. Two token photos of laptop users, but no actual reference to macOS in the copy.

Yeah, a chilling reminder that Apple appear to have given up on the business computer market entirely.
 
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Zarniwoop said:
I hope there's a new framework for AR/VR for macOS.
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Apple don’t sell a single consumer computer that is capable of delivering VR. It would be a strange decision to focus on VR in the operating system when none of their customers can use it. Even the iMac Pro Vega 64 is barely adequate to drive the last generation headsets.

VR is insanely hardware dependent, and the next generation of headsets will be even more so.
 
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Nugget said:
Apple don’t sell a single consumer computer that is capable of delivering VR. It would be a strange decision to focus on VR in the operating system when none of their customers can use it. Even the iMac Pro Vega 64 is barely adequate to drive the last generation headsets.

VR is insanely hardware dependent, and the next generation of headsets will be even more so.
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Yes, I wonder what Apple will do. AR/VR is coming with much promise and Apple hardware is soooo lacking in the ability to display it.
 
koyoot said:
FFS.

Let me quote directly everything for you from that site.

AMD(TF1.0.1):
Ubuntu 16.04.3 x64
HIP-TensorFlow 1.0.1
Python 2.7
Driver: ROCm 1.7

AMD(TF1.3):
Ubuntu 16.04.4 x64
TensorFlow 1.3
Python 3.5
Driver: ROCm 1.7.137
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The problem with AMD is Google doesnt support ROCm yet, so to exploit AMD VEGA's economical advantage you have to stay on TF 1.3 while on nVidia you get Official TF 1.8, for R&D it could be a priority, but for prodction iis where AMD GPU could make sense but for production there are more alternatives a FPGAs and TPUs.
 
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