Mac Pro - the End of an ERA?

[fuchsdh]

I'm seeing some reviewers on YouTube who paid 8K for an iMacPro display computer. Outrageous!!! Sure it's somewhat fast, but not much for gaming and way too expensive for the lackluster GPU performance for 3D software. Apple cannot see that past a few diehard users this pricetage to performance cannot fly with companies that need workstations, and small business power users like me. I'd rather stay on MacOS, but it's looking like I'll bite the bullet and go full WinOS if the Mac Pro is a pooch like the trash can. And I'm not going to mortgage my house to pay for it Apple, either!!!

Sorry for the rant, but Apple is a multi billion dollar company that is failing to innovate against the competition and is leaning too heavily on their portable smart phone/tablet market. Even in phones and tablets they are not matching some of the features of the competition.

They aren't failing to innovate. I don't get why "innovation" gets trotted out as this meaningless complaint. What people in this thread don't want, including the OP you quoted, is innovation. They want safe, boring, expandable towers.

And again, gaming is just not relevant. You'll *always* be able to build your own gaming-focused PC for much cheaper than a prebuilt OEM PC, let alone a Macintosh. That ship has been at sea for ever, it never even docked so it could sail away.

Why should he need to explain this? It's fairly obvious that if you need storage, more disk slots are better. A system with more internal slots is easier and cheaper to expand. (My Dell T3610 has six internal SSDs on 6Gbps SATA, and 24 external drives on 24 SAS RAID lanes.)

Same with USB ports - why split bandwidth across hubs when you can get a tower with more ports?

You make it sound like more disk slots and USB ports is a *bad* thing. It's a good thing.

He hasn't explained what storage he needs. As a person with the same job as him, I'm trying to figure out exactly what his workflow is. I don't have a million disks in my current Mac Pro; if you cut out the dedicated Windows partition I only need a boot and scratch disk. An AE or C4D workflow isn't going to get any faster with more disks, and based on what he's talking about clients he's clearly dumping most files somewhere remote.

 

[BornAgainMac]

I hope there is plans to sell the Mac division in the future if Apple wants to completely get out.

 

[barmann]

They aren't failing to innovate. I don't get why "innovation" gets trotted out as this meaningless complaint. What people in this thread don't want, including the OP you quoted, is innovation. They want safe, boring, expandable towers.

Utter nonsense .

The tcMP, the MB, the MBP, the iMP, OSX post Snow Leo, Apple failed and failed again .
Innovate my arse .
Innovation is not an attempt to follow a defunct credo of being different .

Apple has fallen behind by such a margin, and for so long, that catching up would be an innovation .

 

[InuNacho]

Yep. The only issue is Apple keeping hardware around without updating it, and whether you need something Apple just plain doesn't provide (I have no idea why you'd need 15 USB ports, but there you go.)

As to the article linked I feel like some of the points are valid, and some sound like "this has more so it's better" nonsense. Okay, he illustrated the benefit of having multiple, swappable GPUs. He did not explain how he needed eight internal hard disks or the million USB ports.

I'm not a pro in any way, I'm more of a prosumer and I've always felt that having 5 measly USB ports on a tower was pretty bad. Right now I'm using 8 for my scanner, 2 printers, mouse/keyboard, Lightning for my phone/pad, card reader, optical drive.
I'd gladly take more so I don't have to play musical chairs when I plug in flash drives or externals.

 

[now i see it]

The current CEO followed the money. He had no emotional ties to the Mac Pro... unlike the previous CEO. Virtually all of the company's engineering effort went into updating products that made them rich.
From a purely financial standpoint, the MacPro is almost a loss leader for the company. Kept in the mix grudgingly.

Behold the black line. That's how important financially the Mac Pro is to the company. Mac Pro constitutes a "single percentage point of all mac sales". iPhone killed the Mac (as I've said over & over again). Apple with its current CEO follows the money.

 

[Synchro3]

I have two iPhones and an iPad. And I'm beginning to despise them.

 

[fuchsdh]

Utter nonsense .

The tcMP, the MB, the MBP, the iMP, OSX post Snow Leo, Apple failed and failed again .
Innovate my arse .
Innovation is not an attempt to follow a defunct credo of being different .

Apple has fallen behind by such a margin, and for so long, that catching up would be an innovation .

Innovation doesn't mean what you think it does. Again, you want Apple to make a standard tower. That's not innovation. "Doing something everyone else is doing" is not innovation. I'm not saying that's bad, but arguments that "Apple should innovate" are in direct opposition with what most people are saying on this forum.

 

[AidenShaw]

Again, you want Apple to make a standard tower. That's not innovation.

There's lots of room to innovate within the tower form factor.

How about an embedded NVMe RAID controller with hyper-capacitors, full TRIM support (at least for 0 and 1), and with eight M.2 slots?

 

[andrewmarich]

Looking forward to what the new one will be...

 

[jscipione]

The cMP is absolutely the end of an era. I don't know what Apple will make the next Mac Pro be like but I know that it will involve compromise to Apple's vision of miniaturization that started long before Jobs died and will not stop anytime soon.

 

[pl1984]

I really do think it’s the end of an era. I’m currently using/building my 4,1 to 5,1 Mac Pro and have it set to run Windows in Parallels. I have to say, Microsoft has done a fantastic job with Windows 10. It *feels* like an OS a professional would use, and looks like it. I know not everyone has fond memories of Microsoft, but they are company moving personal computing forward on laptops and desktops and I’m loving the care and progress made.

The next Mac Pro will be powerful, garuntee it. It will also be modular - but Apples definition of modular, not ours. It will most likely not have tons of expansion bays, or multiple PCIe slots like the cMP. It will probably be missing basic ports that every other tower has, and cost twice as much.

I love the cMP, but when this dies I’ll probably be moving to a Windows setup.

IMO if one doesn't have experience with the current version of Windows (which I generously state as version 10 and not the most recently version of 10) then you have no business offering an opinion on Windows. This is not specifically targeting dontpokebearz but rather users in general.

 

[kschendel]

Because there aren't enough pissing and moaning threads about Apple not being in the forefront already. Rolls eyes.

Yawn. Apple screwed up with the nMP. They know it now. We know it. I'm not seeing anything new that you are bringing to the table. Where's the whinging about Intel, who lazed about for years because they were the best game in town, for a while?

I'm sorry. I shouldn't be feeding the trolls.

 

[decafjava]

IMO if one doesn't have experience with the current version of Windows (which I generously state as version 10 and not the most recently version of 10) then you have no business offering an opinion on Windows. This is not specifically targeting dontpokebearz but rather users in general.

I have used I windows 10 at work, not found of it but my big issue was how MS messed up with the lack of user privacy and tracking - all out of the control of the user - on initial release. Fortunately they backtracked but I prefer Apple's approach to the issue.

 

[Mago]

The current CEO followed the money. He had no emotional ties to the Mac Pro... unlike the previous CEO. Virtually all of the company's engineering effort went into updating products that made them rich.
From a purely financial standpoint, the MacPro is almost a loss leader for the company. Kept in the mix grudgingly.

Behold the black line. That's how important financially the Mac Pro is to the company. Mac Pro constitutes a "single percentage point of all mac sales". iPhone killed the Mac (as I've said over & over again). Apple with its current CEO follows the money.

View attachment 760790

Sneaky Picture, you should show the graphics as it was on 2014, on 2018 only Nuts buy a Mac Pro (2013). Hoq would be this graphic having an updated 2018 Mac Pro?

Blatant Apology on a corrupt CEO ( I say corrupt since it uses Apple's influence and resources to promote his personal agenda, which is against its shareholders economical interest, all public traded corporations should be neutral on politics, from not contributing to prospects campaigns, to lobby on things unrelated to its activities as Marriage, its ok to lobby on Labor, Foreigners, Taxes, Net Neutrality are both related to Apple Corporate interest, but liberal agenda in general is not, Apple as corporation should not care if we elect an republican or a democrat).

The Fact Apple is losing focus year aftter year.

What makes a product great? when it ENABLES or EMPOWERS it users.

Few examples:

The iPhone enabled you to have an actually useful computer in your pocket, empowered you to access the Web everywhere.

But...

The Apple Watch: its just am category update (watches once where popular until people managed to read the time on the smartphone), and one barely useful, so indeed it has to be short lived.

The iPad: Jobs envisioned an iPhone/iPad Ecosystem, sadly it was disrupted by the Phablet, now most iPad are just over engineered e-Book readers, do not Enable/Empower its users, its just an MacBook w/o keyboard with iPhone-sourced apps.

Now see the Challenges where Apple is losing:

High Performance Desktops or Workstations, are the backbone of most Tech Ecosystem, because as all we know are where content/applications are made, simple, while you can target iOS content from wherever you develop it, you cant do the same with Apps, but worse you got your developers working on mixed products, you need a Linux Workstation if you want to develop Tensor or AR/VR for iOS, but you also need an iMac to build iOS Applications, it is not practical, smaller developers cant afford this, while big companies can have a team on AI/VR/AR on Linux and smaller teams on iOS/macOD development is from integrated development where good things come.

Then the competition: you can Code Android Apps/VR/AR/AI from everywhere (linux,macOS, Wincrap), Android always suffered from a stepped up toolchain ar is not as easy to develop in Java, and its frameworks libraries where not as solids and stable as those on iOS/obj-C, from two years ago Google clever solved this issue with Kotlin, a community-originated/controlled programming language, one that makes coding Android as easy as code on python while being as efficient as pure Java(besides inherits all its libraries), and being community controlled Kotling its really loved, meanwhile Apple disrupts its API, Swift while much easier than obj-C, isnt even half good as kotlin to code, neither inherits a library as extensive as Java's (obj-C libs can be imported into Swift but you still need some boilerplate code you dont need on Kotlin importing a more extensive Java), but worst Swift is deficient compared to Kotlin, Kotlin Apps are 4 times faster, it means Android is gaining the Apps momentum it needed over iOS, but not Just Android, ChromeOS now runs Android Apps (and linux apps soon), a Chromebook is an true iPad Killer, the iPad still sells because it eats macbook sales, but Chromebooks(and surface) is the one eating Tablet sales, its where iOS is Doomed, but not just that, as soon Kotlin/Node gains dominance (unstoppable) the best Apps (the only one reason why you buy a system) wont be exclusive of iOS/macOS and likely most wont be available on iOS/macOS.

Apple maybe this year got record earnings, surely will have next year (or ar least half next-year), but strategically Apple is Doomed as corporation under Cook's guidance, despite Berkshire Hathaway BS (they buy when is profitable then sell, they don't endorse on long term), Apple in long term sucks.

 

[howiest]

Apple in long term sucks.

That's exactly what I said 25 years ago.
DOH!

 

[scoobs69]

After being a lifelong apple user, since the Apple IIe, and using Apple computers all the way through 2017, being a rabid Apple fanboy in the process; I built my first Windows PC workstation this past December. I still have my 2013 i7 MacBook Air (for on-location tethered photography), and my 2009 quad Mac Pro (now used as my storage/back-up server).

While I wanted to upgrade to a 6 core or 8 core machine in 2013, as Capture One Pro was moving to multi-core efficiency and GPU acceleration, the 2013 Mac Pro provided the very innovation I didn't want from Apple - a little, all external expansion case with (4) USB 3 ports, and (6) Thunderbolt ports. And Phil blurts out, "Can't innovate, my eye".

I kept waiting, hoping, Apple would recognize their designer blunder — and they publicly admit it 4 years later; yet did nothing in those 4 years to fix the problem. Because I was so apprehensive about moving to Windows, being as I never used it before, I was curious about what Apple would offer with the iMac Pro. I figured it would be an expensive Xeon box once again, and Voila! Apple didn't disappoint.

I'm a small business owner who works from home, so my budget isn't supremely high. Spending $5,000 on a 2013 8-core Mac Pro just didn't make sense. Spending $4,000 on a 2013 6-core Mac Pro didn't make sense. Considering I already have a display, spending $3,200 on an i7 iMac limited to 4-cores wasn't what I wanted. The moment the base $5,000 price point iMac Pro was officially announced, I reluctantly started researching my move to Windows 10.

In December I built my 7820x 8-core beastie for $1,950 - I didn't need a display, much less a 4K or 5K display, so this saved me $1,000 on my build (score). It has plenty of internal expansion with (3) 2.5" SSD drive spots, (2) NVMe slots, (8) memory slots, and (4) PCIe slots. I could have bought a motherboard with up to (4) NVMe slots, but don't need that many (other people may). I could have bought a case with up to (10) 3.5" drive bays (didn't need that many).

Once I installed the OS and everything else I needed, and started using the machine, it wasn't remotely as bad as I ever thought it would be. Certainly there were a few things I needed to get used to, and this has happened when I've switched camera systems from Nikon to Sony to Fuji. It never takes long to get to used to the new system.

I know there have been a few PC users who have complained about using Adobe Software on Windows 10, but Mac users have been complaining about Adobe Software on OSX as well. Ever since Adobe moved to a "cloud/lease" system, their software seems to have become more and more buggy and far less stable — the latest Adobe update seems to be dreadful for AMD Ryzen users — which is unfortunate. It's also one reason I've tried to limit my use of Adobe software, and moved to Capture One Pro for photography, and minimally use Photoshop when needed.

It was wildly refreshing to have so many options of video cards, motherboards features, case features, CPU options, from 4-cores to 18-cores, memory choices, etc.

It was extremely satisfying building exactly what I wanted for my specific needs, vs. paying a high premium for buying something I didn't necessarily want, then adjusting or sacrificing my workflow to fit the limitations of the hardware.

The OS is a different matter, in that I did have to make a minor adjustment, considering I'm used to "columns view" in OSX - which I do miss to some degree. But that's minor compared to running an export in Capture One Pro, a batch in Photoshop and sorting images in Photo Mechanic - without skipping a beat. My 2009 quad core Mac Pro couldn't handle the first two concurrently without a drastic slow-down, much less add the third part effectively.

Since my Mac to Windows transition, I built a PC for another photographer; a 6-core 8700k workstation for $1,300 (not including my build fee). There is no way Apple could touch that price-to-performance ratio. The is no way Apple could touch the price-to-performance ration even with my $250 build fee factored in. Well, they could, they just refuse to do so. And thus the migration from Apple continues.

So yeah. I empathize with the author of the "Mac Pro - The End of an ERA?" column. For me, 2017 was the end of my 33 year Apple only era.

 

[fatespawn]

Scoobs,

I sympathize. I too have used Macs (although not exclusively) since the Apple IIe. IIc. IIgs. Then G4, G5, Powerbooks, iMacs, MacBook Pros, MacBook Airs and ultimately my 2009 Mac Pro. I bought the Mac Pro the second the Apple store opened the day it went on sale for $2,499. After multiple upgrades, I can't believe I'm still using it as my primary computer 9+ years later. The problem is that Apple built this thing to last and they never made money on peripherals nor did they earnestly want to support them. Just by a new one.... well I did what you did 2 years ago.

I built my son a Win10 machine with shiny bells and whistles that a kid loves for about $1,500. Fast forward to last fall when I kinda needed a laptop... but not that badly... then my phone dinged with a Costco sale - $499 for an i5 with 8GB ram and 256ssd. Seriously? No way would I ever consider a $1,300 mac for what I really needed the laptop for... but for $499? It was almost an impulse buy (not that $500 is really an impulse). If it craps out, I'll just break it over my knee and buy another... twice.

I've really enjoyed Macs and OSX but for me, the end will probably be a couple of years after they ditch intel - lack of intel based software will be inevitable and anyone with legacy machines will feel the pinch. I doubt there'll be any "Universal" programs like there were in the transition days of PowerPC to Intel.

 

[pat500000]

Oh well...shucks...there goes ecosystem products...gotta start selling them off.

 

[pl1984]

I have used I windows 10 at work, not found of it but my big issue was how MS messed up with the lack of user privacy and tracking - all out of the control of the user - on initial release. Fortunately they backtracked but I prefer Apple's approach to the issue.

Might be my largest complaint against Windows. That or the forced updates.

 

[kennyman]

There's lots of room to innovate within the tower form factor.

How about an embedded NVMe RAID controller with hyper-capacitors, full TRIM support (at least for 0 and 1), and with eight M.2 slots?

Agreed, I am writing this on a 2017 HP Z8 tower machine and I think it is one of the best tower design I have seen, very easy to replace/upgrade the internal parts with lots of room to innovate in the future/next design.

Here is a link to HP Z8 workstations:
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/..._us/en/psg/hp_desktop_workstations/z8-mdplink

 

[Mago]

That's exactly what I said 35 years ago.
DOH!

Then Jobs comebacks, the problem Jobs will never comeback again.

Apple deserves a CEO like Elon Musk, or Jeff Bezos, someone In-love with the company, not just a lucky store manager.

 

[thepixelpusher]

Innovation doesn't mean what you think it does. Again, you want Apple to make a standard tower. That's not innovation. "Doing something everyone else is doing" is not innovation. I'm not saying that's bad, but arguments that "Apple should innovate" are in direct opposition with what most people are saying on this forum.

No, Apple has dropped behind in innovation by removing features, going back years ago in what they offer as features.
[doublepost=1525663002][/doublepost]

Then Jobs comebacks, the problem Jobs will never comeback again.

Apple deserves a CEO like Elon Musk, or Jeff Bezos, someone In-love with the company, not just a lucky store manager.

Apples goose is Cooked! Tim Cook is so nearsighted on how to lead Apple, that he doesn't address innovation at any level.

 

[scoobs69]

No, Apple has dropped behind in innovation by removing features, going back years ago in what they offer as features.
[doublepost=1525663002][/doublepost]
Apples goose is Cooked! Tim Cook is so nearsighted on how to lead Apple, that he doesn't address innovation at any level.

Except thinness. Computers (apparently) can’t be small nor thin enough. Oh! And portless. Apple continues to remove ports on numerous devices so you have to buy hubs, dongles and adapters for basic functions.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

I have used I windows 10 at work, not found of it but my big issue was how MS messed up with the lack of user privacy and tracking - all out of the control of the user - on initial release. Fortunately they backtracked but I prefer Apple's approach to the issue.

Much of that was overhyped by people posting clickbait articles full of Adsense and riling up the masses. The options to turn off data sharing have been there since the first release, and besides the data is scrambled, split apart and has no identifiable user information. It's not Facebook.
[doublepost=1525675254][/doublepost]

Apple deserves a CEO like Elon Musk

This is the last thing you want. Jobs snubbed him.

 

[howiest]

I can't help but think that this upcoming modular Mac Pro in 2019 is a make it, or break it event.
Will it stop more people from breaking rank, and bring a few deserters back into the club? Or will it finally kill the Mac pro market once and for all?

I actually have high hopes, but since I already spend 20% of my time in Windows 10, I'm not too concerned. I could make the switch, being dragged and screaming into Windows full-time, but it's not an ideal finale for this Apple junky.

If my cMP dies anytime soon, all bets are off.