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Mac Pro - the End of an ERA?

Like some of you, I wouldn't consider myself a professional user that depends on a spec'd-out machine for my livelihood (at least not at the moment), but you could categorize me as a "prosumer" that appreciates – no, expects – to be able to upgrade standard components like my hard drive or memory in whatever computer I own. I run both Windows 10 and Ubuntu Linux on virtual machines, and I've considered switching multiple times over the past few years. The reasons I'm still wedded to Apple are simple, but unfortunately have little to do with the Apple of 2018:
  • I own a 2010 MacBook Pro (bought new) and a 2010 Mac Pro (bought used). Running on 8+ years of daily use, I have never yet had a single hardware issue with either of these machines. What goodwill Apple still holds amongst most pro users rests on the reliability and repairability of these machines.
  • Unix. While I am confident that Windows has achieved ease-of-use parity with the Mac OS, and certain distributions of Linux are almost there, I consider Unix to be a notch above Linux (and miles ahead of Windows) with regards to security and dependability. For the first ten years of Mac OS X, Apple touted Unix as one of the chief strengths of the platform, and rightly so. Philosophical discussions of free software aside, Unix is tried and true for almost 50 years now.
In short, quality hardware from almost 10 years ago, and the Unix foundation of the Mac OS are the reasons (I tell myself) that I'll be running my current machines until the wheels fall off (or Apple returns to form). I'm not holding my breath, though.
 
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AidenShaw said:
These are just a few off the top of my head - readers are invited to add other Apple insults to their (increasingly former) pro users.
Click to expand...
  • Number of CPU and memory sockets halved in Mac Pro
  • Dropping the Mac Mini quadcore option and not updating the Mac Mini for 4 years
    (yes there are pros doing work on Mac Minis)
  • Dropping MacBook Pro 17-in option--nobody needs more than 15", right?
  • Selling MacBook Pros without discrete GPUs
  • Not updating the Nvidia drivers, not even for Nvidia lines that they sold
  • Not updating AMD GPU drivers for Bootcamp
  • Selling D300/500/700 as "Fire Pros", when in fact they have the same ID as the 7900 cards, use the same drivers, and are actually worse than the non-"Fire Pro" 7900 cards because they are throttled and unreliable
  • Removing several advanced features from Disk Utility
  • That time they moved SW engineers from OS X to iOS, which made OS X late
  • Dropping Shake
  • Dropping Xserve
  • Dropping several significant features from OS X Server (mail, web, VPN, etc.)
  • Loss of drive bays in Mac Pro
  • Loss of PCIe slots in Mac Pro
  • Referring to the iPad Pro as an "iPad Pro" :rolleyes:
 
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h9826790 said:
Apple may believe they are doing something for pro user (in their point of view), but pro users not necessary agree that.

They believe that they created a great Mac Pro 6,1 for pro users. Is that widely accepted in the Pro users group? NO.

So, they further "upgrade" it to a even more lock down iMac Pro for pro users. Is that widely accepted by pro users? Another NO.

I hope they can get the 7,1 right, but who knows?

We are talking about "if Apple REALLY doing something good (objectively) for pro users", but not "If Apple BELIEVE that they are doing something good (subjectively) for pro users".

Anyway, you link is NOT straightly form Apple.
Click to expand...

What is a PRO user? Almost all people assume that a PRO user needs a kick ass GPU.
I am a PRO user who makes money with the MP, and for one, I do not want to pay for a kick ass GPU, I need an entry level GPU, but need a lot of RAM, fast SSD, and 6-8 core CPU. From my perspective, the Mac Pro 6,1 is good enough even today - I have had it since February 2018, I made and continue to make money with it. It has already paid for itself.

Edit: What I think will be perfect from my perspective is this. Apple needs to make the Mac mini double its size, add option for 6-8 core CPU and a fast SSD, then make the Mac Pro a really powerful tower machine. Then I will be perfectly served with a Mac mini.
 
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vddobrev said:
What is a PRO user? Almost all people assume that a PRO user needs a kick ass GPU.
I am a PRO user who makes money with the MP, and for one, I do not want to pay for a kick ass GPU, I need an entry level GPU, but need a lot of RAM, fast SSD, and 6-8 core CPU. From my perspective, the Mac Pro 6,1 is good enough even today - I have had it since February 2018, I made and continue to make money with it. It has already paid for itself.
Click to expand...

So the 6,1 is good enough for you, however, even you don't need GPU power, but you are still forced to buy a dual GPU 6,1. Is that a good design?

And apart from you, how many Pros out there need GPU power? A lot!

And can they get it? NO

So, the nMP is good for you, but not generally good for pro users.

Unless you can represent all pro users. The nMP good for you doesn't mean that the nMP is good for all pro users in general. That's why I said "Is that widely accepted in the Pro users group? NO." At most, only half of the remaining group accept that (there are more than one poll to reflect this). And why remaining? Lots of pro users gone already.
 
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h9826790 said:
So the 6,1 is good enough for you, however, even you don't need GPU power, but you are still forced to buy a dual GPU 6,1. Is that a good design?

And apart from you, how many Pros out there need GPU power? A lot!

And can they get it? NO

So, the nMP is good for you, but not generally good for pro users.

Unless you can represent all pro users. The nMP good for you doesn't mean that the nMP is good for all pro users in general. That's why I said "Is that widely accepted in the Pro users group? NO." At most, only half of the remaining group accept that (there are more than one poll to reflect this). And why remaining? Lots of pro users gone already.
Click to expand...

But that is exactly what I said. I said "I do not want to pay for a kick ass GPU" and if Mac Pro was available with one GPU, I would have bought that. I also said "From my perspective" a couple of times, so I am only speaking for myself and I do not represent all pro users. Is that clearer now?
 
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vddobrev said:
But that is exactly what I said. I said "I do not want to pay for a kick ass GPU" and if Mac Pro was available with one GPU, I would have bought that. I also said "From my perspective" a couple of times, so I am only speaking for myself and I do not represent all pro users. Is that clearer now?
Click to expand...

Then why quote my post? That's nothing contradict to your opinion...
 
thepixelpusher said:
Not trying to start a flame War here, but I cannot sugar coat it either. Apple has so undercut it's Professional users by not offering a modern customizable computer that has upgrade and expandability options like the competition on the WinPC side.

Here's an article that is basically a case study in the drip of Apple losing it's Pro users to Windows setups.

https://www.thepixellab.net/mac-vs-pc-as-a-motion-designer-the-end-of-an-era

For those that would scream, "make a Hackintosh", I'd say it's dicey to base my business work on a computer that could be bricked with an Apple update that my Hakintosh doesn't support or requires going to forums to constantly read up on how to handle updates. I don't need additional unbillable work!

I'm pissed. Apple dropped the Mac Pro market with the trash can Mac that didn't offer any expandability or customization and cost way more than comparable WinPC's. I do 3D, video (with compositing and motion graphics) and print advertising so I'm a power user. Macs just seem to be behind the curve for pro users wanting desktops that are modern and expandable and customizable.

Please in response, don't flame but offer tangible information why you agree/disagree and why. let's keep this civil and productive.
Click to expand...

Apple is a business and it appears that Apple decided long ago that the Mac Pro was not a priority part of their business.

Now it's up to people to decide what's best for their business.
 
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Plutonius said:
Apple is a business and it appears that Apple decided long ago that the Mac Pro was not a priority part of their business.

Now it's up to people to decide what's best for their business.
Click to expand...
But they are declaring different things. They say that they care too much and pros are a priority for them, they just were trapped in a thermal corner...

Aren't you paying attention too?
Just kidding...:)
[doublepost=1525791736][/doublepost]And if Apple is a business, they should have announced their priorities and decisions in time and honestly. So we could make some decisions too.

If they were not and still not doing so, they are not a serious business, and they 're not serious at all about their relationship with their partners and customers.
 
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filmak said:
But they are declaring different things. They say that they care too much and pros are a priority for them, they just were trapped in a thermal corner...

Aren't you paying attention too?
Just kidding...:)
[doublepost=1525791736][/doublepost]And if Apple is a business, they should have announced their priorities and decisions in time and honestly. So we could make some decisions too.

If they were not and still not doing so, they are not a serious business, and they 're not serious at all about their relationship with their partners and customers.
Click to expand...

If they were honest, how many businesses would still be using the Mac Pro ? It would have also impact what sales they have had ?
 
AidenShaw said:
The evidence that "Apple isn't doing anything for Pro users" is actually fairly strong....
These are just a few off the top of my head - readers are invited to add other Apple insults to their (increasingly former) pro users.
Click to expand...
- REMOVING eGPU support for those of us with (currently shipping!!!!!) TB2 machines
- CUDA?????
- VR?????
- AR????
- ML????

My HP Z series (more than 1 and climbing) are filling the void quite nicely.
 
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Mago said:
Apple maybe this year got record earnings, surely will have next year (or ar least half next-year), but strategically Apple is Doomed as corporation under Cook's guidance, despite Berkshire Hathaway BS (they buy when is profitable then sell, they don't endorse on long term), Apple in long term sucks.
Click to expand...
Warren Buffet disagrees with you.
 
I would even argue that Apple not caring about the pro space spans to macOS as well. When was the last time macOS has seen updates that actually help productivity? Having new technologies added in, improved window management, better communication with contacts, making iCloud more than an after thought, focusing on it's productivity suite, enhancing and refining the UI? Lets be real, Yosemite was a color/icon update and that's really it. High Sierra looks like garbage on a 1440P monitor because the font choice isn't optimal for "low" resolutions.

I haven't had a Windows computer since 2013, and just installed 10 on a Parallels VM. Man do I gotta say, Microsoft is getting their act together and listening to what customers want. They actually improve the desktop OS, and adapt it too multiple form factors (touch, pen, kb/mouse, AR!). Bring in features like timeline, people, the Linux subsystem, etc,. After watching the last 2 days of Build 2018 and seeing that they are actually putting attention on the desktop OS, makes being loyal to macOS a little harder.
 
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vddobrev said:
What is a PRO user?
Click to expand...

Everyone has their own definition.

However, I'd argue that in the context of what Apple itself thinks of as a pro user, it would be the type of people they hired for the Pro Workflow Team. This team was publicly revealed around April in the TechCrunch article about the 2019 Mac Pro.

Namely, these people are artists and technical producers who are known to work on film, visual effects, and music. So currently it is limited to people who work on audio and video content. However, they indicated in the article that they intend to grow the Pro Workflow Team over time to include other fields of work.

The Pro Workflow Team is supposedly "across the hall" from the Apple engineers, and consult on what they'd like to see for future pro hardware and software. It does not mean that they are directly driving design, but it does mean that they have extraordinary influence.

Article:
https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/05/apples-2019-imac-pro-will-be-shaped-by-workflows/
 
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Guys, I know y'all are pros and all, but for the benefit of others, can y'all please point us to a legend that explains what these acronyms are ?

(it is obvious that MP = Mac Pro, but what are the lower case prefixes ?)

nMP
tcMP
cMP
iMP

I looked up nMP on Google ... "Not My Problem".

Thanks in advance :)
 
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maculateConception said:
Guys, I know y'all are pros and all, but for the benefit of others, can y'all please point us to a legend that explains what these acronyms are ?

(it is obvious that MP = Mac Pro, but what are the lower case prefixes ?)

nMP
tcMP
cMP
iMP

I looked up nMP on Google ... "Not My Problem".

Thanks in advance :)
Click to expand...


nMP = new mac pro, depending on context either current gen (black cylinder) or future model
tcMP = trash can mac pro, the black cylinder
cMP = classic mac pro, aka the cheese grater aka the best one apples built
iMP = iMac Pro. Apple's latest pro offering.
 
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maculateConception said:
Guys, I know y'all are pros and all, but for the benefit of others, can y'all please point us to a legend that explains what these acronyms are ?

(it is obvious that MP = Mac Pro, but what are the lower case prefixes ?)

nMP
tcMP
cMP
iMP

I looked up nMP on Google ... "Not My Problem".

Thanks in advance :)
Click to expand...
nMP = New Mac Pro (not yet released; also abbreviated to mMP = Modular Mac Pro)
tcMP = Trash Can (2013) Mac Pro
cMP = Classic (pre 2013) Mac Pro; mainly “Cheesegrater” models
iMP = iMac Pro

EDIT; dontpokebearz beat me to it!
 
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dontpokebearz said:
nMP = new mac pro, depending on context either current gen (black cylinder) or future model
tcMP = trash can mac pro, the black cylinder
cMP = classic mac pro, aka the cheese grater aka the best one apples built
iMP = iMac Pro. Apple's latest pro offering.
Click to expand...

The_Interloper said:
nMP = New Mac Pro (not yet released; also abbreviated to mMP = Modular Mac Pro)
tcMP = Trash Can (2013) Mac Pro
cMP = Classic (pre 2013) Mac Pro; mainly “Cheesegrater” models
iMP = iMac Pro

EDIT; dontpokebearz beat me to it!
Click to expand...

Awesome ! Gracias, guys.

Yes, I used the cheese grater at work (software dev) for 5 years. Awesome machine.
[doublepost=1525823542][/doublepost]
ActionableMango said:
Everyone has their own definition.
Click to expand...

I was a back end Java developer, and on a typical day, I'd have 5-7 heavy duty Java web services processes running simultaneously, a programming IDE, sometimes a Linux VM (Parallels), in addition to the usual office type apps - Email, Word, browser.

I definitely taxed that machine :)

Software development and/or testing (depending on the type and workload) can in some cases definitely be considered Pro usage.
 
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