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Mac Pro's FirePro and Gaming?

I am a semi-retired gamer, and I find these discussions interesting to say the least.

For the OP I think the questions are: -

1. What is the maximum spec Mac Pro you need/can afford to do the main job you need?

2. Will this be good enough for you to game on?

3. If the answer to 2 is no, then how much more is it to get the Mac Pro that will give you performance for gaming?

4. Is the answer to 3 worth spending compared to buying a separate gaming PC?

In my case, my gaming is so limited now, I cannot justify the space or cost for a dedicated gaming PC, so I make do with my MacBook Pro 15" and accept the compromise.
 
I wouldn't consider the D300s as a gaming option.

FOr an idea on D500 performance, find a test with 7870XT. As I have shown, these are the cores in D500, though they will have better throughput. Big unknown is if CF will work in Bootcamp. So, see if benchies for single and CF dual fit in what you need.

The only sure fire bet is the D700 option. Simply sell one of your cars. (or children) Those will behave much like AMD 7970, which has been #2 card since GTX680 came out. Became #4 card once GK110 cards came out. Again, big unknown is will CF work. The fact that 5770/5870 from Apple had disabled CF for a long while doesn't portend well.
 
Crossfire isn't needed for professional apps though, if they support multiple cores they'll use them without crossfire. So I doubt Apple or AMD will create crossfire drivers for FirePros.

Also the 7970 matches the GTX770, and sometimes the GTX780 these days thanks to driver improvements. Which is something else people here need to think about.
The Mac 7950 performed poorly on launch due to drivers, and it's rare that people retest it. barefeets never really bothered I think.

Also the 7970 at launch only matched the GTX580, it's come a long way and it's drivers have greatly improved.

The question is, will AMD have great drivers on launch now that Apple is working closely with them? Will AMD start proving OS X drivers, in a similar fashion that NVIDIA is doing?

We certainly won't know until the machine is actually available for reviews and testing.

I would echo what MacVidCards is saying though, don't even consider the D300's in the slightest. I wouldn't even consider them for work, let along gaming. The D500's are mediocre at best, and we simply don't know how much the D700's will cost.

Price them too close to their desktop variants, and the MP will cost an outrages amount, and will turn people off. If they go for $1500 each, about half of desktop retail value it'll still be a massive chunk for two of them.

Maybe $6000 for a 6core MP, dual D700's, 16GB RAM, 2560GB SSD.
 
N19h7m4r3 said:
Maybe $6000 for a 6core MP, dual D700's, 16GB RAM, 2560GB SSD.
Click to expand...

256GB SSD, you mean ? :)

I'm guessing 7,000 for dual D700 - Quad core

That's still a good deal, coming from PC (W9000 [D700] is $3500 each). If AMD lets them charge too little for the whole box, the nMP is going to be gobbled up by W9000 users on the PC side to run Windows (like MVC pointed out earlier).
 
slughead said:
256GB SSD, you mean ? :)

I'm guessing 7,000 for dual D700 - Quad core

That's still a good deal, coming from PC (W9000 [D700] is $3500 each). If AMD lets them charge too little for the whole box, the nMP is going to be gobbled up by W9000 users on the PC side to run Windows (like MVC pointed out earlier).
Click to expand...

god damn:(
 
slughead said:
256GB SSD, you mean ? :)

I'm guessing 7,000 for dual D700 - Quad core

That's still a good deal, coming from PC (W9000 [D700] is $3500 each). If AMD lets them charge too little for the whole box, the nMP is going to be gobbled up by W9000 users on the PC side to run Windows (like MVC pointed out earlier).
Click to expand...

Yes, sorry. If only it did include a 2 TB SSD. :p

I seriously hope dual D700's don't break 6000, unless it's with more than a 6core CPU.

it would certainly put off a few, but as you said it might get plenty of Windows users to buy it for cheap dual W9000's.

That's is only, if the Dual D700's are 100% the same performance wise as the W9000's. I won't be surprised if they're slightly slower in order to lower the power requirements, and hence the heat generated as well.
 
N19h7m4r3 said:
Yes, sorry. If only it did include a 2 TB SSD. :p

I seriously hope dual D700's don't break 6000, unless it's with more than a 6core CPU.

it would certainly put off a few, but as you said it might get plenty of Windows users to buy it for cheap dual W9000's.

That's is only, if the Dual D700's are 100% the same performance wise as the W9000's. I won't be surprised if they're slightly slower in order to lower the power requirements, and hence the heat generated as well.
Click to expand...

So ... lets say money was not a consideration. With a fully tricked out Pro (dual D700's) what kind of performance could you get on x-plane?
 
I am also interested in this.

I have a gaming PC today maxed out with all the latest and greatest, but it is freaking huge and loud. And I have a poor brother whos head would explode in joy if he got it as a xmas gift.

I do not want it, nor do I have space for it anymore.

So my dream is that the maxed out baby pro will be able to at least play some battlefield 4 @ max settings after work. That would make me a happy camper.

I will get the 12-core , 64GB , 1TB D700 version.
 
HannKett said:
I am also interested in this.

I have a gaming PC today maxed out with all the latest and greatest, but it is freaking huge and loud. And I have a poor brother whos head would explode in joy if he got it as a xmas gift.

I do not want it, nor do I have space for it anymore.

So my dream is that the maxed out baby pro will be able to at least play some battlefield 4 @ max settings after work. That would make me a happy camper.

I will get the 12-core , 64GB , 1TB D700 version.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you could .. but that system would be like 9k
 
jetjaguar said:
I'm sure you could .. but that system would be like 9k
Click to expand...

Yes probably, but 9K is not that bad considered the expected life span of the system (5 years).

My current "gaming PC" was about $5000, if I can shrink it down and be able to use OSX whenever I want to without moving around cables for my two monitors, that would justify the 9k price tag for me.
 
HannKett said:
Yes probably, but 9K is not that bad considered the expected life span of the system (5 years).

My current "gaming PC" was about $5000, if I can shrink it down and be able to use OSX whenever I want to without moving around cables for my two monitors, that would justify the 9k price tag for me.
Click to expand...

I'd also move up to the $6-$7k range, if I knew that I could max X-Plane
 
caneman said:
So ... lets say money was not a consideration. With a fully tricked out Pro (dual D700's) what kind of performance could you get on x-plane?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be able to answer that, I've never ran X-Plane.
If it does indeed match a desktop 7970, but with 6GB of RAM I think it will do really well in all things if it's a fully "tricked out" mac pro.
 
HannKett said:
I am also interested in this.

I have a gaming PC today maxed out with all the latest and greatest, but it is freaking huge and loud. And I have a poor brother whos head would explode in joy if he got it as a xmas gift.

I do not want it, nor do I have space for it anymore.

So my dream is that the maxed out baby pro will be able to at least play some battlefield 4 @ max settings after work. That would make me a happy camper.

I will get the 12-core , 64GB , 1TB D700 version.
Click to expand...

I know you're focusing on size, but you could get a hex core Mac Pro with dual GTX 780 in SLI that would blow the nMP out of the water at BF4 for 1/3 the cost of that.

The W9000 [D700] are identical to the 7970 at games, and there's no evidence the nMP would even have crossfire.
 
Benk3350 said:
Just as a background, I currently own an '09 13" MacBook Pro and a desktop PC. I am currently considering getting the new Mac Pro.

I know that the Mac Pro is primarily a workstation desktop. I'm a film student who does a lot of film editing projects and plan to expand this into my career in the future. Right now, my macbook pro just isn't cutting it anymore. What I basically want is a future proof editing machine. My budget maxes out around $4500.

I know that Apple is touting its standard dual GPU, ATI's FirePro card. I know that these cards were not made with gaming in mind. But I do game occasionally and wouldn't mind running windows boot camp to play some games every now and then. Does anyone know what kind of performance gaming wise that the FirePro cards might compare to? Or will they just be miserable in that department? I figured that these cards are no slouches and will at least be able to handle some decent games, maybe not on high settings but normal settings. I am just really unfamiliar with workstation GPU's so when people say they are not meant for gaming, I don't know if they mean they're just not quite up with the performance of other gaming centric GPU's in that price range or if they are just terrible in that field.

I don't play crazy intensive games. My typical PC games will be Star Wars: The Old Republic, Star Wars: Empire At War, Age of Mythology, etc. Mostly RTS and MMO games. I may be playing more graphic intensive games down the road if the Mac Pro can handle them, but I just don't have a good grip on what these cards can do gaming wise, mostly rendering and editing proficiency. If one of my buddies comes over with a newer game and wants to LAN, I would like to be able to keep up and play right on my desktop.

I know this was a long post, but any answers to this would be greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...

It wont be optimized for gaming. Just look, it's got a Xeon CPU and workstation grade GPU. This is not hard-core gamer equipment.
 
jetjaguar said:
neither was the original though .. doesn't stop people from gaming on it
Click to expand...

Yes there are ... I don't want a windows machine, so leaves me to try and find the best Mac gaming rig possible. I know its intent isn't supposed to be for gaming, but the nMP specs seem to be faster than the top end iMac.
 
caneman said:
Yes there are ... I don't want a windows machine, so leaves me to try and find the best Mac gaming rig possible. I know its intent isn't supposed to be for gaming, but the nMP specs seem to be faster than the top end iMac.
Click to expand...

yea i am sure it will handle games fine but don't expect to be gaming at 4k with it .. and the top gpu option is going to be expensive

i guess we will have to wait and see if there will be crossfire in osx
 
HannKett said:
Yes probably, but 9K is not that bad considered the expected life span of the system (5 years).

My current "gaming PC" was about $5000, if I can shrink it down and be able to use OSX whenever I want to without moving around cables for my two monitors, that would justify the 9k price tag for me.
Click to expand...

Without reasonable GPU replacements, even the D700 machines will be under $1k in 5 years. I have a thread elsewhere where I show that today's low end (gt640) beats the high end from 5 years ago. (8800gt) the gtx280 and AMD4870 were out, but not for Mac.

How many current games can you run on a 8800gt? That's where the D700 will be in 2018.

Keep in mind it will be nearly 7 years old then. (Released Jan 2012) and whatever entry level $100 cards are out will be able to kick sand in it's face.

Someone else mentioned that 7970s can keep up with 780.

I do not believe that to be true

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-HD-7970-vs-GeForce-GTX-780
 
MacVidCards said:
Without reasonable GPU replacements, even the D700 machines will be under $1k in 5 years. I have a thread elsewhere where I show that today's low end (gt640) beats the high end from 5 years ago. (8800gt) the gtx280 and AMD4870 were out, but not for Mac.

How many current games can you run on a 8800gt? That's where the D700 will be in 2018.

Keep in mind it will be nearly 7 years old then. (Released Jan 2012) and whatever entry level $100 cards are out will be able to kick sand in it's face.

Someone else mentioned that 7970s can keep up with 780.

I do not believe that to be true

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-HD-7970-vs-GeForce-GTX-780
Click to expand...

Interesting perspective - particularly to some that's owned the mac versions of the GeForce 460 ti, x1900xt, 8800, and 5770. I've just always needed as much performance as I could get. I'm not considering the d300, and hoping the d700 is like a 1200 - 1500$ bto.
 
thegreatdivorce said:
Your definition of "just fine" is probably not the same as most gamers.
Click to expand...

That's definitely true for hardcore gamers, but the OP said that 5% of his time in front of the computer would be spent on gaming. I'd be willing to bet he's casual, and wouldn't be expecting max settings on all games at 1440p (or even higher :eek:).

To the OP: If your main concern and usage of the machine is some type of professional work, with gaming as a bonus, then why wouldn't you go for it?
 
On the Crossfire discussion, I have been told:
- There will be no Crossfire under OS X. Use the cards to drive independent displays, or use one card for OpenCL and one card for OpenGL. Because apps like Final Cut Pro X slams both OpenCL and OpenGL, it's considered ideal to split the work onto two different cards.
- Crossfire should be supported under Windows.

Again, this is what I've been told. I see no reason to distrust this, but take it with a grain of salt. Things can always change.

As far as Crossfire under OS X, that's a software detail. Could always change in the future, and there are APIs to use both cards for OpenGL if a app chose to.

The performance of the cards should be good for gaming, just as good as the gaming cards. The Mac Pro is more spendy, but Apple seems to be under-charging for the Fire Pros. If you need a workstation, it should make a great gaming computer, without the need to spend more money on a PC.
 
ekiro said:
It wont be optimized for gaming. Just look, it's got a Xeon CPU and workstation grade GPU. This is not hard-core gamer equipment.
Click to expand...

Agreed. A video card solution that is noticeably faster than any single video card on earth that money can buy (assuming PCIe Crossfire), and a CPU that is 2-3 times faster than any consumer grade CPU money can buy is NOT "hard core".

That's just like Apollo 10's craft, which was definitely not optimized to transport humans quickly but to withstand the harsh conditions of space and transport tons of research equipment and to land on the moon. They could have made the spacecraft twice as fast and half as heavy. The fact that it was the fastest manned object ever recorded at Mach 33 was clearly a typo or something, Apollo 10 like the new Mac Pro clearly wasn't a speed machine like anything that lacks optimization.

goMac said:
- Crossfire should be supported under Windows.
Click to expand...

Agreed. There is no reason why it shouldn't be supported. Crossfire worked under windows with the old Mac Pro, and all of the fundamental hardware will be there to make it work on the new Mac Pro. There shouldn't be a problem (fingers crossed)
 
Last edited:
Radiating said:
Agreed. A video card solution that is noticeably faster than any single video card on earth that money can buy (assuming PCIe Crossfire), and a CPU that is 2-3 times faster than any consumer grade CPU money can buy is NOT "hard core"
Click to expand...

Way to use a qualifier to stack the truth on one side. How's'about we compare Dual to Dual?

For LESS THAN $2,000 you can get Dual GTX780s and an extra power supply for a 5,1. 2 780s trumps 2 D700s any day of the week, esp for gaming. Do you suppose those D700s will be more or less than $2K?

And please show us the game that can use slower 12 core to beat a hex running a higher clock?

Crysis3 ?

BF4?

Which one?

I'm sorry, I don't see any truth in your PR quote.
 
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