Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

skottichan

macrumors 65816
Oct 23, 2007
1,143
1,387
Columbus, OH
Closed services and hardware ecosystem. Far more so than just requiring your OEMs include IE.
To be fair, you just described video game consoles.

Is it anti-consumer monopolistic behavior for Nintendo to only sell Metroid Dread on the Switch? I mean, how unfair is it that I can't buy it for my PS5.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TiggrToo

tmoerel

Suspended
Jan 24, 2008
1,005
1,570
This is why I am not fully in the Apple ecosystem. No point in fully committing since they don't support all my use cases.

I will happily go all Apple if they truly support AAA gaming.
Funny, for me it is the opposite. I am totally into the Mac ecosystem because it does NOT support AAA gaming. The focus for these machines is to be great at creating content. They have acceleration where needed. They have focus in colour accuracy. They looks sleek and are performing where it is needed.
Gaming does not cover these use cases and I am happy to support a company that supports professionals at doing their work better instead of focussing on time wasting consumption behaviour.
 

tmoerel

Suspended
Jan 24, 2008
1,005
1,570
Apple's purpose is to make money. That doesn't always align with what would best serve their users.
Sorry but you defined any company in the capitalist world. They are all out to get your money. Apple just does it with more style!
 

tmoerel

Suspended
Jan 24, 2008
1,005
1,570
By charging $200 for a 512GB SSD. Charging $200 for 8gb of RAM
OK.....now go and find an OEM SSD running at 7.6GB/s and RAM runnin at 800GB/s. You will be surprised.
Yes Apple charges premium prices but they do so for premium products. Also all the R&D needed to develop these products needs to be paid somehow.
So next time you complain about price, make sure that you compare it to something with similar specs!
 

mr_roboto

macrumors 6502a
Sep 30, 2020
856
1,866
Probably because I'm (1) talking about GRAPHICS not the use of GPUs for computational purposes and (2) the software has already been written and works fine. I'm not going to rewrite it to because Apple wants to drop the API for their own convenience. Especially industry-standard NASA codes.

Metal is irrelevant to me. YMMV. At least as far as writing my own code. Only available on MacOS.
I get it, you love obsolescent 1980s graphics API designs, but nobody serious about GRAPHICS uses GL for new work in 2022. I realize legacy code is a whole other thing, but if you plan on keeping it working fine into the future, or want to take full advantage of modern hardware, you should be working out how to transition away from GL. (Presumably to Vulkan, but in some cases it makes sense to go with a middleware layer with multiple backends for better crossplatform support.)

The last time GL had a chance of remaining relevant was back when Khronos Group was working on the GL 3.0 spec. Unfortunately, what got released failed to accomplish the cleanup and modernization work GL desperately needed, and ever since it's been a zombie technology. (As I understand it, this was mostly due to toxic politics between the member companies - the committee couldn't agree on a good path forward.) GL's a bit like COBOL - it'll keep on going a surprisingly long time due to momentum, but you really should escape its orbit if you can.
 

exoticSpice

Suspended
Original poster
Jan 9, 2022
1,242
1,952
OK.....now go and find an OEM SSD running at 7.6GB/s and RAM runnin at 800GB/s. You will be surprised.
Yes Apple charges premium prices but they do so for premium products. Also all the R&D needed to develop these products needs to be paid somehow.
So next time you complain about price, make sure that you compare it to something with similar specs!
The base SSD does not at 7.6GB/s. Only the top end 8TB ssd does.
 

arvinsim

macrumors 6502a
May 17, 2018
823
1,143
Funny, for me it is the opposite. I am totally into the Mac ecosystem because it does NOT support AAA gaming. The focus for these machines is to be great at creating content. They have acceleration where needed. They have focus in colour accuracy. They looks sleek and are performing where it is needed.
Gaming does not cover these use cases and I am happy to support a company that supports professionals at doing their work better instead of focussing on time wasting consumption behaviour.
As a person who owns both Mac and PC, it cracks me up that fanboys are so defensive of Apple that they **** on other people's use cases where the Mac doesn't shine.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,623
11,295
The base SSD does not at 7.6GB/s. Only the top end 8TB ssd does.

That's old news anyway. PCIe 5.0 NVMe later this year...

UDAykVhjaYUch3nWfkvWzC-970-80.jpg.webp
 
  • Wow
Reactions: anticipate

tmoerel

Suspended
Jan 24, 2008
1,005
1,570
As a person who owns both Mac and PC, it cracks me up that fanboys are so defensive of Apple that they sh*t on other people's use cases where the Mac doesn't shine.
I also use both mac and windows. And I accept and like the fact that Apple's use cases are for content development.
 

tmoerel

Suspended
Jan 24, 2008
1,005
1,570
That's old news anyway. PCIe 5.0 NVMe later this year...

UDAykVhjaYUch3nWfkvWzC-970-80.jpg.webp
Right now these PCIe 5.0 SSDs are not available and seeing the covid problems in Shenzen, these could well be made out of unobtanium. At least Apple is shipping.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,521
19,677
I think the problem is bigger than that. IIRC, @leman and others (forgetting who) have detailed some of the major differences in Apple's GPU arch that make Vulkan prohibitively difficult to support. In other words, it's not just a matter of "Apple doesn't want to support Vulkan," but "supporting Vulkan isn't really tenable."

I don't think that supporting Vulkan on Apple GPUs is per se prohibitively difficult. Just emulating certain practical aspects of Vulkan/DX12 API usage is not efficient with Metal. The basic philosophy of data bindings is quite different for example, and there is just no good way to implement common patterns that DX12 use in Metal. On the other hand, modern Metal data binding patterns cannot be implemented in DX12/Vulkan at all as they don't have pointers.
 

dysamoria

macrumors 68020
Dec 8, 2011
2,247
1,868
There will always be some new technology on the horizon. If you have need for a Mac Studio, it’s a very impressive computer.
I've been waiting for ray tracing to get into real-time graphics for ages, so... still sad.
 

jjcs

Cancelled
Oct 18, 2021
317
153
To be fair, you just described video game consoles.

Is it anti-consumer monopolistic behavior for Nintendo to only sell Metroid Dread on the Switch? I mean, how unfair is it that I can't buy it for my PS5.
I didn't support the monopoly pursuit of MS either, however, they don't ask me.
 

jjcs

Cancelled
Oct 18, 2021
317
153
I get it, you love obsolescent 1980s graphics API designs, but nobody serious about GRAPHICS uses GL for new work in 2022. I realize legacy code is a whole other thing, but if you plan on keeping it working fine into the future, or want to take full advantage of modern hardware, you should be working out how to transition away from GL. (Presumably to Vulkan, but in some cases it makes sense to go with a middleware layer with multiple backends for better crossplatform support.)

I'm not talking about gaming and OpenGL is still used for graphics. Fortran is still used for code development, for that matter. Not everyone finds the latest shiny thing worth switching to just because its new nor is it always better for the application at hand.

It's simpler just to ditch the platform that is the most agressive at dumping backwards compatibility. Cheaper too. MacOS doesn't bring enough to the table to make that worth it.
 

macOS Lynx

macrumors 6502
Jun 3, 2019
386
555
....and then 6-7 months after that Apple will beat them...and then 6-7 months after that AMD and Nvidia will win again...and then 6-7 months after THAT Apple will win again, and THEN 6-7 months after THAT...
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,438
2,665
OBX
....and then 6-7 months after that Apple will beat them...and then 6-7 months after that AMD and Nvidia will win again...and then 6-7 months after THAT Apple will win again, and THEN 6-7 months after THAT...
Traditional GPU manufacturers don’t do new architectures that often. There (generally) is a two year cycle for them.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.