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Mac Studio Speculation [Merged]
- Thread starter darkus
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(as mentioned in this thread: Mini M2 Pro vs. Studio M1/M2 Max – comparison analysis )
The release of the MBP M2 Max options surely reduces sales on current Studio's until Apple update it, as buyers know the M2 Max chip exists, and will wonder why Apple are not adding it to the Studio relatively soon rather than leaving the current Studio on the previous M1 Max?
(caveat: as ever, if you need something today then obviously buy as something new is always on the way – but if not, then surely very specifically on this machine; waiting is your very best option?)
What do you think?
The release of the MBP M2 Max options surely reduces sales on current Studio's until Apple update it, as buyers know the M2 Max chip exists, and will wonder why Apple are not adding it to the Studio relatively soon rather than leaving the current Studio on the previous M1 Max?
(caveat: as ever, if you need something today then obviously buy as something new is always on the way – but if not, then surely very specifically on this machine; waiting is your very best option?)
What do you think?
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If you don't need a new machine right away, one reason to wait is because when the M2 Studio comes out, it will trigger a price cut on the M1 version. So if the M1 meets your needs, you'd be getting a great machine for a couple hundred less just by waiting a few months or however long before the refresh drops. And if it turns out that the M2 is the best choice, then you won't regret having bought an M1 now.
The bottom line is that Apple will always come out with more powerful machines that its current lineup. At some point, you have to take the plunge with the understanding that progress is inevitable, and no matter what you buy, eventually something better will come along.
I've bought previous-gen iMacs, iPhones and other devices without any regrets. Sure, it would be great to always have the latest and greatest. But if the current or previous gen has the specs to meet my needs for the next few years, I might as well buy it rather than continuing to make do with a device so old that it actually undermines my productivity. That's why I bought the M1 Studio, which is now my daily driver for work. (I'm self-employed.)
Hope that helps a bit!
The bottom line is that Apple will always come out with more powerful machines that its current lineup. At some point, you have to take the plunge with the understanding that progress is inevitable, and no matter what you buy, eventually something better will come along.
I've bought previous-gen iMacs, iPhones and other devices without any regrets. Sure, it would be great to always have the latest and greatest. But if the current or previous gen has the specs to meet my needs for the next few years, I might as well buy it rather than continuing to make do with a device so old that it actually undermines my productivity. That's why I bought the M1 Studio, which is now my daily driver for work. (I'm self-employed.)
Hope that helps a bit!
I think that if one always waits until the next iteration, one will never buy anything.
To update the studio then also need the m2 Ultra chip as has been posted elsewhere.
could not really do m2 studio max, m1 studio ultra, so until the ultra is ready and available in sufficient numbers then not going to be able to update the studio properl.
as the ultra is a double max with fusion connect then could be
1.). As speculated already then the ultra may not fit into the current process on a 1:1 and need a different process.
2.). Again as speculated already then even if ultra is ready and available then Apple can get 2 max for 1 ultra and they probably have more demand for the m2 mbp then studios, and makes more sense to get more Max Soc then worrying about Ultra sales, with the MBP and mini pro just launching.
3.). Again as speculated already then Apple May figure that doing an Ultra every chip is not cost effective. Ultra only in the Studio at the moment, so Apple may only do every other chip as an ultra, ie M1, M3, M5.
If the mac pro does end up as basically an Ultra with Slots/internal drive bays then may change the economics.
in terms of losing sales then the m2 pro mini probably takes care of the base studio anyway, so unless need a max and 64Gb, (M2 MBP available and I dare say Apple rather sell the MBP anyway) or an Ultra then studio sales probably take a dip anyway at the lower end.
if you need the extra grunt/memory then people will buy now. if they don’t then won’t be buying now anyway.
could not really do m2 studio max, m1 studio ultra, so until the ultra is ready and available in sufficient numbers then not going to be able to update the studio properl.
as the ultra is a double max with fusion connect then could be
1.). As speculated already then the ultra may not fit into the current process on a 1:1 and need a different process.
2.). Again as speculated already then even if ultra is ready and available then Apple can get 2 max for 1 ultra and they probably have more demand for the m2 mbp then studios, and makes more sense to get more Max Soc then worrying about Ultra sales, with the MBP and mini pro just launching.
3.). Again as speculated already then Apple May figure that doing an Ultra every chip is not cost effective. Ultra only in the Studio at the moment, so Apple may only do every other chip as an ultra, ie M1, M3, M5.
If the mac pro does end up as basically an Ultra with Slots/internal drive bays then may change the economics.
in terms of losing sales then the m2 pro mini probably takes care of the base studio anyway, so unless need a max and 64Gb, (M2 MBP available and I dare say Apple rather sell the MBP anyway) or an Ultra then studio sales probably take a dip anyway at the lower end.
if you need the extra grunt/memory then people will buy now. if they don’t then won’t be buying now anyway.
Again, we understand the general 'buy now if needed, as something new is always around the corner' argument. I'm trying to steer conversation precisely to this machine. Thanks.
Anyway...
(although personally I think that's unlikely, as while the M1 to M2 improvements are significant gains, they're not so massive enough as to create a problem in scaling to an Ultra – i.e. it's not like a 100% year-on-year improvement, but more of an incremental one).
However, when strictly talking here about the Studio Max chip (not the Ultra); surely Apple must realise buyers can see the MBPs have the next gen Max in them, so will be hesitant in buying a Studio Max right now if they are not urgent purchases, until this chip is added to the Studio.
While it's of course possible they could skip generations (e.g. M1 M/U to M3 M/U), but from the all important marketing perspective it doesn't work, as the rabbit is already out the hat in that customers can see an M2 Max already exists in the MBP for their laptop market, and will wonder why their desktop equivalent doesn't now also have it. So Apple holding-off adding it to Studio (along with M2 Ultra's, of course), is likely to see lower sales of the current Studio until they do, as buyers will expect it regardless of whether Apple do/don't add it. So it puts Apple between a rock and a hard place, if they somehow choose not to update it.
Additionally, the Mac Pro is likely to have an even more powerful chip in it than a vanilla Ultra (e.g. Ultra Duo and Ultra Quad, or similar??) in order to justify the very high prices for the Pro machines. And given it's now well over the two year guidance schedule for moving everything to Apple Silicon, IMO it's likely Apple released the Mini right at the beginning of the year, to leave a clear space for Mac Pro around June/WWDC (high-end machine designed for a portion of the professional devs market), then iPhones (Sep), and Studio (Oct/Nov) – by that stage it'll have been 18-20 months since the M1 Studio's were released, so enough time for the refresh.
The M3 process isn't ready yet (according to various decent analyst sources – of course they could be wrong, as ever(!), but unlikely on this), so that would mean a very much later release for Studio M3's (around late 2024 at the earliest for the Pro/Max/Ultra variants) which would be a whopping 2.75 years after the M1 Studio's arrived in March 2022.
Anyway...
Good points. Yes they may not have an M2 Ultra ready, and they won't want to update the Studio-line until both a Max and Ultra chips are available.
(although personally I think that's unlikely, as while the M1 to M2 improvements are significant gains, they're not so massive enough as to create a problem in scaling to an Ultra – i.e. it's not like a 100% year-on-year improvement, but more of an incremental one).
However, when strictly talking here about the Studio Max chip (not the Ultra); surely Apple must realise buyers can see the MBPs have the next gen Max in them, so will be hesitant in buying a Studio Max right now if they are not urgent purchases, until this chip is added to the Studio.
While it's of course possible they could skip generations (e.g. M1 M/U to M3 M/U), but from the all important marketing perspective it doesn't work, as the rabbit is already out the hat in that customers can see an M2 Max already exists in the MBP for their laptop market, and will wonder why their desktop equivalent doesn't now also have it. So Apple holding-off adding it to Studio (along with M2 Ultra's, of course), is likely to see lower sales of the current Studio until they do, as buyers will expect it regardless of whether Apple do/don't add it. So it puts Apple between a rock and a hard place, if they somehow choose not to update it.
Additionally, the Mac Pro is likely to have an even more powerful chip in it than a vanilla Ultra (e.g. Ultra Duo and Ultra Quad, or similar??) in order to justify the very high prices for the Pro machines. And given it's now well over the two year guidance schedule for moving everything to Apple Silicon, IMO it's likely Apple released the Mini right at the beginning of the year, to leave a clear space for Mac Pro around June/WWDC (high-end machine designed for a portion of the professional devs market), then iPhones (Sep), and Studio (Oct/Nov) – by that stage it'll have been 18-20 months since the M1 Studio's were released, so enough time for the refresh.
The M3 process isn't ready yet (according to various decent analyst sources – of course they could be wrong, as ever(!), but unlikely on this), so that would mean a very much later release for Studio M3's (around late 2024 at the earliest for the Pro/Max/Ultra variants) which would be a whopping 2.75 years after the M1 Studio's arrived in March 2022.
I do not understand these comparisons between the Mac Studio released eight months ago and the new Mac Mini that just came out. Of course, there are benefits to one over the other; The Mac Mini has a newer CPU, and the Mac Studio can be configured with more than twice the RAM. The Mac Mini "only" has the Pro chip, and the Mac Studio can be configured with the Max and the Ultra CPU. The Mac Mini is a few hundred dollars cheaper , depending on configuration...
It is two different computers, and the CPU has a generational change.
I actually think Apple has it about right now:
Mac Mini - Standard consumer computer which can be configured to get close to the next level
Mac Studio - Prosumer computer, beefy enough to give the top-level a run for the money
Mac Pro - Professional computer where the sky is the limit
iMac - The con/prosumer all-in-one, if that is what you like
It is two different computers, and the CPU has a generational change.
I actually think Apple has it about right now:
Mac Mini - Standard consumer computer which can be configured to get close to the next level
Mac Studio - Prosumer computer, beefy enough to give the top-level a run for the money
Mac Pro - Professional computer where the sky is the limit
iMac - The con/prosumer all-in-one, if that is what you like
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For me in Sweden it makes sense to buy Mac Studio M1 24c instead of Mac Mini M2 Pro 19c. It is about $400 cheaper and I get better GPU, faster memory bandwidth, SD card reader and more ports. I don't need 12-core CPU. MBP M2 Max costs $500 more so even Mac Studio M2 Max will be more expensive. Here even Mac Studio M1 Max 32c GPU will be better than M2 Max 30c GPU since it will be cheaper with about the same GPU performance.
This is not what is being discussed. Please stay on topic. The explanation above is background to the main discussion, not the actual main subject matter itself.
The subject in discussion here is about the value proposition of buying a Max desktop Studio now vs. waiting for next gen – given we know the next gen chip already exists in the (entirely different market) laptop MBPs.
That's a fair discussion point, for those that want it, and have this consideration to make.
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I purchased a new Mac Studio this morning, choosing it over the M2 Pro mini. Better cooling, more ports, more cores won me over - along with availability. I need it by mid February and the loaded mini was a late February delivery.
The problem you have though is that the studio is not JUST the Max version but is the Ultra version as well, trying to isolate the Max is not realistic.
to be able to launch an M2 Studio then need max and Ultra, and can make 2 max for 1 ultra and there is a semi conductor shortage still so Apple will prioritise where those Max go.
simply makes more sense to give the Max to MBP then once MBP orders slow make the Studio available along with introducing Ultra which is a smaller volume product.
which is precisely what did with the mbp and studio with the M1 release. Got the demand for MBP out the way and then introduced the studio.
They may lose some short term sales however it will keep the wait time down on the MBP. If people need a studio now will still buy one, and those that do not need would be putting of purchase anyway as many people feeling the pinch which will minimise those short term sales loss anyway.
to be able to launch an M2 Studio then need max and Ultra, and can make 2 max for 1 ultra and there is a semi conductor shortage still so Apple will prioritise where those Max go.
simply makes more sense to give the Max to MBP then once MBP orders slow make the Studio available along with introducing Ultra which is a smaller volume product.
which is precisely what did with the mbp and studio with the M1 release. Got the demand for MBP out the way and then introduced the studio.
They may lose some short term sales however it will keep the wait time down on the MBP. If people need a studio now will still buy one, and those that do not need would be putting of purchase anyway as many people feeling the pinch which will minimise those short term sales loss anyway.
Apple's line up is a bit overcrowded as it stands, and I think that fact is impacting sales, i.e, one model is cannibalizing another. This is another example, where people were clamoring for a mini-pro, but having one, impacts the Studio's viability
Hence the 9-month gap I mentioned previously between the new MBPs (Jan 2023) and the next Studios (Oct/Nov 2023) – as you said, the same as they did before: MBPs M1 Pro/Max (Oct 2021) <6-months later>Studios M1 Max/Ultra (Mar 2022).
Sort of. I don't think it impacts the Studio's viability to exist, if that's what you mean. As Studio's have Max (and Ultra) chips which are more performant. It's just that Apple's pricing for the Mini Pro is so close to the Studio Max, it makes some buyers jump up to one instead of sticking with the Mini option - deliberately or not, on Apple's part.
My point in this thread, is that because we know the M2 Max chip exists already for their laptop offering (MBPs), it's unviable for Apple to keep their matching desktop offering remaining on the M1 Max. As buyers can see the chip exists, and many will now wait to buy their Studio until it's updated.
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As a pro device, the Mac Studio would've been really cool if it could've gotten drop-in M-series/ motherboard upgrades, retaining the chassis. It could've been made truly modular. Pay $800 or something to trade in your M1 Ultra for an M2 Ultra.
Serious question: why do you care? You've described the situation and can make whichever choice you want (sounds like you want to wait), so what's there to discuss?
What is it that the studio in which ever config does not do today and the the M2 configs will solve for you?
I bought a Studio about a month ago and have zero remorse.
As you’ve said yourself, buy when you NEED it
I bought a Studio about a month ago and have zero remorse.
As you’ve said yourself, buy when you NEED it
i suspect that in a few weeks, apple will announce the upgraded Studios.
if they tweak the studio to take advantage of greater thermal headroom
available in the chassis, we'll be here again with the question being,
why be an M2 mini when the same chip is available in the Studio but
with much better benchmark numbers for the updated Studio.
if they tweak the studio to take advantage of greater thermal headroom
available in the chassis, we'll be here again with the question being,
why be an M2 mini when the same chip is available in the Studio but
with much better benchmark numbers for the updated Studio.
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“relatively soon” hasn’t passed yet - the newly announced Macs aren’t yet available in store and we haven’t had general release or NDA’s drop for reviews.
If they wanted they could spec bump via press release if they wanted to both Studio and iMac 24” - or just do their regular Spring event in March. The MBP & Max Mini announcement was like it was cut from a main event video from 3 months back.
Relatively soon includes up to a Spring Apple event. Meanwhile they churn out the M2 chips - if they’re making M2 Ultras by the nature of things they’ll have more Max Pro and M2 base chips ready first?
If you can wait by all means do - but it could take up to WWDC to find out the plans for M2, M2 Ultra, M3. Then factor in the usual month or so of teething bugs of the first batch of Macs and availability if you don’t order immediately.
Apple may bring the M1 version price down if/when M2 version released - but they could increase the M2 version price and keep the M1 around at current price. (Generally Apple can have discounts happen via 3rd party sellers and not have to change the price they sell at through the life of a product.)
The other factor is - you’re almost assuming Mac Studio is ongoing. We don’t know where or if it fits post a Max Pro release.
Mac Pro announcement could hold back a Mac Studio announcement so you’re talking a potential up to WWDC 5 month delay waiting for more on Max Studio refresh.
So what would be a Spring announcement?
M2 iMac 24”
Mac Studio M2 lines
Mac Pro and potential display
Would give a desktop theme.
and the One More Thing: Headset
www.macrumors.com
Has the Mac 15,4 and 15,6 identifier been identified yet?
Mac Pros on MacOS 16.3, with 16.2 being release coming this week.
www.macrumors.com
If they wanted they could spec bump via press release if they wanted to both Studio and iMac 24” - or just do their regular Spring event in March. The MBP & Max Mini announcement was like it was cut from a main event video from 3 months back.
Relatively soon includes up to a Spring Apple event. Meanwhile they churn out the M2 chips - if they’re making M2 Ultras by the nature of things they’ll have more Max Pro and M2 base chips ready first?
If you can wait by all means do - but it could take up to WWDC to find out the plans for M2, M2 Ultra, M3. Then factor in the usual month or so of teething bugs of the first batch of Macs and availability if you don’t order immediately.
Apple may bring the M1 version price down if/when M2 version released - but they could increase the M2 version price and keep the M1 around at current price. (Generally Apple can have discounts happen via 3rd party sellers and not have to change the price they sell at through the life of a product.)
The other factor is - you’re almost assuming Mac Studio is ongoing. We don’t know where or if it fits post a Max Pro release.
Mac Pro announcement could hold back a Mac Studio announcement so you’re talking a potential up to WWDC 5 month delay waiting for more on Max Studio refresh.
So what would be a Spring announcement?
M2 iMac 24”
Mac Studio M2 lines
Mac Pro and potential display
Would give a desktop theme.
and the One More Thing: Headset
Apple's 'Reality Pro' Headset Said to Launch Before WWDC, Ships in the Fall
Apple's AR/VR headset, likely to be named "Reality Pro," will be announced during an event this spring before WWDC, which is typically...
www.macrumors.com
Has the Mac 15,4 and 15,6 identifier been identified yet?
Mac Pros on MacOS 16.3, with 16.2 being release coming this week.
New Mac Pro With M2 Ultra Chip Might Launch This Spring Alongside macOS 13.3
Apple is testing a new version of the Mac Pro running macOS 13.3, according to a tweet shared by Bloomberg's Mark Gurman today. Given that...
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Do you guys reckon Apple will offer:
Mac Minis with Mx and Mx Pro CPUs - 8 and 16GB RAM, and
Mac Studios with Mx Max and Mx Ultra CPUs - 32, 64, and 128GB RAM
...and because of the greater thermal possibilities the Mac Studio will have faster CPUs?
And because of the lag between releases, we'll have to get used to the Mac Mini getting the newest Mx CPUs a few months before the Mac Studio...
The high-end M1 Ultra chip released for the Mac Studio last year is still about 9% faster than the M2 Max based on Metal scores, and the M1 Max is still faster than the M2 Pro:
Mac Minis with Mx and Mx Pro CPUs - 8 and 16GB RAM, and
Mac Studios with Mx Max and Mx Ultra CPUs - 32, 64, and 128GB RAM
...and because of the greater thermal possibilities the Mac Studio will have faster CPUs?
And because of the lag between releases, we'll have to get used to the Mac Mini getting the newest Mx CPUs a few months before the Mac Studio...
The high-end M1 Ultra chip released for the Mac Studio last year is still about 9% faster than the M2 Max based on Metal scores, and the M1 Max is still faster than the M2 Pro:
- M1 Ultra: 94,583
- M2 Max: 86,805
- M1 Max: 64,708
- M2 Pro: 52,691
- M1 Pro: 39,758
Again, not really on topic. But no to faster CPU's, if current releases are to go by as the chip size (thus # of cores) is the upgrade. And yes Mini gets new M#/M# Pro, then Studios with M# Max/Ultra.
To be fair we don't even know if the Studio will continue past the M1. It might have only been a stop gap until they could get the Mac Pro out. Or maybe sales have been lower than expected compared to the 27" iMac Pro and they will go back to that form factor. Who knows. We know reviews of the Mac Studio have generally been positive, so hopefully it continues. I am a big fan of the form factor.
My guess is they plan to announce a new Ultra and "Extreme" when they announce the new Mac Pro and they will just update the Studio with M2 then as a side to the Mac Pro announcment.
My guess is they plan to announce a new Ultra and "Extreme" when they announce the new Mac Pro and they will just update the Studio with M2 then as a side to the Mac Pro announcment.
We have had the 2023 Spring announcement (for Macs). In the desktop lines, next might be:
M3 iMac 24" - end of year to early 2024
Mac Studio M3 - early 2024
Mac Pro - no more.
So if you need a Studio - get one now.
The M1 MacBook Air still remains a great buy for a general purpose laptop that can actually do a fair amount of “pro” work. Hell, it could be considered overpowered for a general purpose laptop.
Indeed the M1 MBA is still one of the best bang-for-the-buck laptops on the market. A case can be made that it remains Apple’s best bang-for-the-buck desktop computer until Apple discontinues it and/or drops the price of the M2 MacBook Air.
The MacBook Pros and Mac Studio are not mainstream consumer devices—they’re simply way overpowered for general purpose use. These devices are for genuine heavy-duty work and priced accordingly.
Indeed the M1 MBA is still one of the best bang-for-the-buck laptops on the market. A case can be made that it remains Apple’s best bang-for-the-buck desktop computer until Apple discontinues it and/or drops the price of the M2 MacBook Air.
The MacBook Pros and Mac Studio are not mainstream consumer devices—they’re simply way overpowered for general purpose use. These devices are for genuine heavy-duty work and priced accordingly.