All true, but I think the M2 Pro mini outperforms the Studio M1 Max for basically the same price. Other than the number of displays and the 64GB option, I think the mini is a better performing machine.
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Mac Studio Speculation [Merged]
- Thread starter darkus
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Different argument for sure. It's pretty simple - one just determines what their use cases are and then the choice becomes fairly obvious b/w the mini, mini pro and studio base. The mini pro can't support the displays I run however if I were starting out today I might adjust the display choices in order to buy the mini pro vs. the studio. For many folks I bet it is a better choice.
For once as Apple users, we have too much choice instead of not enough!
I understand the anxiety of buying something that you're not sure will be upgraded in only a few weeks to months, but none of us really know when or if they are going to release a Mac Studio M2 version.
If you need the computer now, then upgrade. If you can hold off until the next revision (whether in a few months or another year), then wait. It's almost certainly going to be upgraded, but nobody knows of the timing. I think it's unlikely that the Mac Studio will become EOL with introduction of the Mac Pro. The Mac Studio still has its niche.
If you need the computer now, then upgrade. If you can hold off until the next revision (whether in a few months or another year), then wait. It's almost certainly going to be upgraded, but nobody knows of the timing. I think it's unlikely that the Mac Studio will become EOL with introduction of the Mac Pro. The Mac Studio still has its niche.
The real question is:
How many PCIe Lanes does the M2 Ultra have that can be shoved behind a PLX Mr. Owl?
And behind the PLX, how handicapped with I/O be?
How many PCIe Lanes does the M2 Ultra have that can be shoved behind a PLX Mr. Owl?
And behind the PLX, how handicapped with I/O be?
I would wait. The Mac Pro will most likely be out this year, and the Mac Studio will most likely be updated this year too, but their is a small chance it may not be till 2024 and will get the M3, ignore anyone claiming the Studio will never be updated... Apple is not going to spend all that time and money on developing an entirely new platform, and the tooling to build it just to kill it off after one iteration, that lacks any business sense.
Having said that, I 'think' the M1 Ultra still beats the M2 Max though in most cases. It is double the chip literally after all. So if it's a very good deal it may be worth getting it.
Having said that, I 'think' the M1 Ultra still beats the M2 Max though in most cases. It is double the chip literally after all. So if it's a very good deal it may be worth getting it.
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Mac Cube. Trashcan Mac Pro. iMac Pro.
All these were one-off machines that had new designs (iMac Pro internals were entirely new).
While I truly hope the studio is here to stay, it’s not out of the question it was a one-time thing. It uses a few similar production processes as the Mac mini too.
iMac Pro was a stop filler for the Mac Pro, and it didn’t cost Apple much to make as they used an existing chassis so didn’t need to retool, 2013 Mac Pro only failed due to its design and lack of upgradability (even though ironically it’s much more upgradable then any Apple Silicon Mac), even so it was kept on sale till 2019 and wasn’t upgradable due to Apples lack of support for it and proprietary GPU’s and it’s banking on dual GPU parallel computing that the market didn’t accept. Mac Cube was a special one off design only sold for 1 year 23 years ago, it was also made from plastic so I’d imagine cheaper than an aluminium enclosure.
Sorry IMO none of them are comparable to the Mac Studio and I stand by my original comment 100%. The Mac Studio IMO isn’t going anywhere and WILL be updated.
Wow, I have each of those... Mac Cube. Trashcan Mac Pro. iMac Pro... my purchase of a Studio does not bode well for its future 
The internals and part of the chassis had to be completely reworked, and they had to fit inside a specific enclosure which in many ways would be harder, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the studio and iMac Pro cost about the same in RnD. The studio just uses a “reworked” design from the Mac mini and isn’t that complex.
I think they are comparable in many ways, but again I’m not necessarily saying they’re going to discontinue the studio. That being said, just how the iMac Pro was a stop filler, the same could be said about the Mac Studio. We just don’t know.
Personally I bought a Mac Studio myself and love it, and hope that it stays around for a long time. If I upgrade in 3 years, I hope there are new studios to upgrade to.
All I’m saying is I wouldn’t be quite so confident. Apple has done many odd things with products that are in niche categories.
No, your comparison is utterly flawed. Taking an iMac 27” and putting some different mounting holes in it and making it a different colour is an entirely different and MUCH cheaper project then designing an entirely new computer from scratch. The Studio is not just a ‘reworked‘ Mac Mini! It’s an entirely new chassis and platform. It costs a hell of a lot of money to design and tool for a totally brand new device, the Mac Studio really isn’t comparable at all and will not be a ‘stop gap’. It will still be on sale in 4 years time and updated several times.
It’s asinine to think that any company would spend millions to R&D an entirely new computer and platform to only sell it for a year or two before withdrawing the entire thing from sale.
All IMO, but Apple are in business to make money and the Studio is a popular computer looking at what owners like yourself say.
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I've known plenty of companies, including Apple, that discontinue unprofitable products. If the Studio isn't making enough money for them within a year, it would prudent to cut losses and move on. Regardless of how much is invested, if its draining profit it gotta go.
Incorrect, the first picture was a special edition one off anniversary Mac, and I already mentioned about the Cube. I still stand by my point, the Studio will still be on sale this time next year, and it will be updated to M2 or M3.
I really wish Apple was more bold to experiment with different shapes, looks like the only shape that exists in their minds is square with round corners/squircle (Mini and Studio)
That’s not at all what they did with the iMac Pro. The internals in every way we’re completely reworked from the ground up. The only thing that was kept the same was the basic chassis, but even that used a different color and was also reworked to fit the ports and cooling.
The Mac Studio chassis uses the same basic manufacturing As the Mac mini. Yes it’s new and different but the chassis alone isn’t that difficult. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were able to use the same manufacturing lines as the Mac mini due to their similarities: It’s a cube with some holes. Again we’re just talking chassis here not internals. An iMac chassis for example is much more complex for manufacturing.
But again, the iMac Pro internals were totally different and designed from the ground up. So it likely took the same RnD to entirely rework the internals as it did to create the internals for the Mac Studio. Both equally complex. iMac Pro may even be more complex internally due to it not having an SoC.
They all need to use tools to make the cases, and that’s where the expense comes in, the iMac Pro was cheap as the case is the same as any other iMac just anodised a different colour. The internals may be different but it’s cheaper to design the circuit board. The components are why it cost so much. The Studio is an entirely new design, the only thing it has in common with a mini is the width and length and that’s it.
Sorry but I still do t think a fair comparisons can be made and used as an argument for the Studio being dropped by Apple after one iteration.
Anyway the M1 Studio will be an absolute bargain once they hit the refurbished store, will look at one then plus I know someone who works for Apple and can get me a further discount. Think that’s what I’ll do.
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Why would it be cheaper to design the circuit board? In fact due to the motherboard having so many various processors and co processors, the motherboard would likely be even more complex on an iMac Pro. With the new SoC’s, the motherboards are much simpler as many components are now integrated on the chip. Regardless - both macs still require RnD and have very complex internals.
My personal theory is that Apple is not going to make Ultra variants of chips every generation. It doesn’t make RnD sense to do this as the Ultra Chip likely accounts for less than 1% of all Mac sales. For a long time the iMac was updated every 2 generations even though intel had chips every year Apple could have used. It’s likely Apple just didn’t think the cost was justified to update it every year.
If we do see a studio update, I think we’re waiting until M3 Max/Ultra.
Between the M1 Mac mini & the M1 Max/Ultra Mac Studio, there was a hole in the headless desktop line-up, eventually filled by the M2 Pro Mac mini...
Axe the Mn Max/Ultra Mac Studio and there will be an even larger hole in the headless desktop line-up, this time between the M2 Pro Mac mini & the Mn Ultra (Extreme) Mac Pro...
Not to mention anyone needing the power of the Mn Ultra, but not needing expansion slots; well, those folks would be forced to buy the Mn Ultra Mac Pro slot box...
Once the ASi Mac Pro is released, the only hole in the headless desktop line-up would be for the top SoC (Mn Extreme) with no expansion slots crowd; which is where the Mn Extreme Mac Cube comes into play...!
Axe the Mn Max/Ultra Mac Studio and there will be an even larger hole in the headless desktop line-up, this time between the M2 Pro Mac mini & the Mn Ultra (Extreme) Mac Pro...
Not to mention anyone needing the power of the Mn Ultra, but not needing expansion slots; well, those folks would be forced to buy the Mn Ultra Mac Pro slot box...
Once the ASi Mac Pro is released, the only hole in the headless desktop line-up would be for the top SoC (Mn Extreme) with no expansion slots crowd; which is where the Mn Extreme Mac Cube comes into play...!
Mac mini | Mac Studio | Mac Cube | Mac Pro | |
| Mn | * | |||
| Mn Pro | * | |||
| Mn Max | * | |||
| Mn Ultra | * | * | ||
| Mn Extreme | * | * |
Have you looked online at circuit boards? They really aren’t that expensive to make. They are so mass produced, only the components cost the money as I said. As for when it’s updated, I agree it ‘may’ be when the M3 is launched, but the rumours are of a Mac Pro being released this year, so considering the chip that’ll have I wouldn’t rule out an M2 upgrade, we already have the Max, it’s only the Ultra that’s needed.
If we are arguing about what Apple COULD do, the answer is anything, of course. We can only guess at probabilities here based on what Apple has done before. Do they have one-off designs that don't get upgrades? Yes, they've done it. Do they eliminate a product so that something twice as expensive won't see sales loss? Unfortunately they do that too. Apple isn't "for the rest of us" anymore. The point of eliminating slots and ports and expandability is to make things MORE expensive for consumers, and keep profits going to Apple and not third parties. They could not defeat Wintel so they joined the lock-in game.
I think Mac Pro will get teased at WWDC with a release in December. This is what they’ve done with many of their Pro products like iMac Pro, Pro Display, and the latest Mac Pro. I think Mac Pro will come with an M3 Ultra and maybe an extreme chip.
They’d announce it at WWDC so that developers can optimize their professional software for the Mac Pro over the following 6 months. There’s talks about the Mac Pro possibly being able to use PCIe graphics and of course other expansion cards like Avid makes for ProTools - if Apple really is going to make an Apple silicon Mac Pro, they have to do it right. And that means first and foremost native pro software support across the board and compatibility for PCIe cards. Apple announcing Mac Pro at WWDC, with it shipping at the end of the year, tells devs if they aren’t on native software now - they better get there soon.
And they may release new API’s for devs if they end up going down the PCIe graphics card route. The system would need to know how to spread graphic tasks between the integrated graphics and the expansion cards. If those rumors are true - they surely are not going to start shipping this summer.
If the first generation ASi Mac Pro launches with 3nm M3 Ultra / Extreme SoCs, then this would be highly likely...
Add-in (GP)GPUs aside, most of the PCIe cards one would use in a slot box Mac are already supported & running in TB enclosures...
Or they risk losing customers. For example if Avid ProTools and Media Composer refused to be native (they haven’t but just an example) - and people have production machines on Mac, they lose potential customers to other platforms that are native like davinci resolve. Of course you have to weigh the pros and cons of switching to windows or switching to new software.
On Apple silicon some high-end pro cards may still be unsupported - like ProTools HDX cards I believe just got native support. They also don’t support PCIe 5 which could be added with the Mac Pro. I’m not totally aware of the full status of card support though.