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PianoPro

macrumors 6502a
Sep 4, 2018
511
385
So what is next? The Apple Silicon chips are structurally incapable of anything more then what the Mac Studio delivers. So it's going to be what? Ten grand for a Studio with an SSD slot and ten pounds of shiny aluminum? And now Appleinsider suspects that Apple might never update the Studio in order to protect Mac Pro sales:


"It's more likely that Apple either never updates the Mac Studio or holds off until the M3 or M4 generation," Gurman writes. By then, Apple will have an opportunity to "better differentiate" the Mac Studio from the Mac Pro.

The M2 Ultra would be a marginal performance enhancement over the M1 Ultra and ultimately inadequate for a Mac Pro. I'd bet the Mac Studio is updated to an M2/x Ultra when Apple figures out how to build an Mx Extreme (or decides to use multiple M2 Ultra's in the Mac Pro - that is debated elsewhere), their original Mx target SoC for the Mac Pro. Not sure they will even release a Mac Pro before that happens. But when it does, they will have adequate differentiation for both Mac tiers.
 

loby

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2010
1,878
1,505
Rumors keep people talking about "what Apple will do.." and Apple just laughs and enjoys the P.R.

It makes sense to wait for a very powerful Mac Pro (Silicone chip), especially when you are in a product transition to newer technology/concept that will set the course of the product line for another (probably) 10 years or so.

Apple has to rethink how to create the Mac Pro if they will have usable service parts since the Silicon concept is all inclusive (RAM, Storage, CPU etc. on a single chip). If they want Mac Pro to be modular, then their design concept has to be basically a new product and not just slap a clip into the current Mac Pro and call it a day. With that, it needs to have a launch that "wow's" everyone.

There is ALWAYS a market for the a higher end, all powerful Mac. It is a small market, but Apple has shown that they understand now that they have to provide "something" to accommodate those users. It will probably be a hefty price tag, but it needs to be located well beyond Mac Studio and Mac mini Pro in power and function in their product choices.

Mac Studio should be here to stay from sometime. I don't see it like a transition product like the iMac Pro was. Apple can wait for awhile to update it (like they use to do with Mac mini) so Mac Pro can be the spot light when it comes out.
 

sam_dean

Suspended
Sep 9, 2022
1,262
1,091
Apple has so utterly destroyed it's credibility in the pro space that it continues to amaze me that anyone even asks for a Mac Pro anymore. As far back as the blade servers they got everyone excited, then just forgot the product existed, humiliating anyone who was dependant on them. Then they did it again and again with the cheese grater, the trash can, and the new cheese grater. And products like the $600 wheels, or $1000 stand embarrass anyone who has to explain why they bought anything Apple.

So what is next? The Apple Silicon chips are structurally incapable of anything more then what the Mac Studio delivers. So it's going to be what? Ten grand for a Studio with an SSD slot and ten pounds of shiny aluminum? And now Appleinsider suspects that Apple might never update the Studio in order to protect Mac Pro sales:

Apple has the sales figures of all Mac Pro since 2006 to today.

- 2006-2012 they updated more frequently than every 2 years
- 2013-2017 was the trash can Mac Pro that never has a spec refresh no PCIe slots per market research
- 2017-2020 was the iMac Pro that did not get a spec refresh either no PCIe slots per market research
- 2019-today Mac Pro with PCIe slots per market research... still no refresh after 3+ years unless 2022 Mac Studio is its indirect successor

Apple split the market of the Pro desktop into two

- with PCIe card slots
- without PCIe card slots

Odds are >50% of Mac Pro users do not need/want PCIe card slots. If they did then why even make a Mac Pro without PCIe card slots. Why develop the Mac Studio?

It isn't a question if there is demand for a Pro desktop with PCie card slots but it is a question of is there enough demand or worldwide sales numbers to justify a more frequent refresh.

It is the Mac equivalent of the iPhone mini. There are people "love their iPhone mini" but they do not number enough to merit R&D cost for a refresh.

I would be very surprised that a 2023 Mac Studio M2 Max or M2 Ultra will be not be released by June for WWDC 2023.
 

T'hain Esh Kelch

macrumors 603
Aug 5, 2001
6,446
7,365
Denmark
Since we are speculating ... Unlike the iMac Pro, there's too much R&D involved to design a completely new form factor like the Studio to discontinue it within a year or two.
That argument is pretty mood, considering the Apple Cube, iMac Pro, iPhone 5C and XR, Apple Pippin, QuickTake Camera, Macintosh TV, iPod Hi-Fi, 2013 Mac Pro, and several Performa machines.
And why would they need a stop gap at all?
Lack of a clear roadmap or vision. I think the Mac Pro 2013 is the most perfect example of this. And in the case of the Mac Studio, because they had to postpone their 2022 Mac Pro plans because it turned out they could deliver proper scaleable performance with their SOCs (Ie. nothing faster than an Ultra, which is already well behind the competition).
 

sam_dean

Suspended
Sep 9, 2022
1,262
1,091
That argument is pretty mood, considering the Apple Cube, iMac Pro, iPhone 5C and XR, Apple Pippin, QuickTake Camera, Macintosh TV, iPod Hi-Fi, 2013 Mac Pro, and several Performa machines.

Lack of a clear roadmap or vision. I think the Mac Pro 2013 is the most perfect example of this. And in the case of the Mac Studio, because they had to postpone their 2022 Mac Pro plans because it turned out they could deliver proper scaleable performance with their SOCs (Ie. nothing faster than an Ultra, which is already well behind the competition).
If you ask me the Extreme & Mac Pro may be delayed to mid 2025 for the purpose of 3nm node.
 

Algr

macrumors 6502a
Jul 27, 2022
510
764
Earth (mostly)
What PCI cards exist that would work in an Apple Silicon mac? Given how few Macs have slots, it is not surprising that no one bothers making cards Mac compatible.

Also, what happened to the parallel processing approach from a few decades back? A university networked a bunch of G4s together and got the fourth fastest supercomputer in the world? That inspired Apple to start making blade servers for a while.
 

PianoPro

macrumors 6502a
Sep 4, 2018
511
385
That argument is pretty mood, considering the Apple Cube, iMac Pro, iPhone 5C and XR, Apple Pippin, QuickTake Camera, Macintosh TV, iPod Hi-Fi, 2013 Mac Pro, and several Performa machines.

Lack of a clear roadmap or vision. I think the Mac Pro 2013 is the most perfect example of this. And in the case of the Mac Studio, because they had to postpone their 2022 Mac Pro plans because it turned out they could deliver proper scaleable performance with their SOCs (Ie. nothing faster than an Ultra, which is already well behind the competition).

I think you are missing the point, or perhaps I am. I thought the question was whether the Mac Studio was INTENDED to be a one-shot product, a stop-gap, until the Mac Pro was ready. My speculation is that it wasn't. That it was intended to be a new tier of Mac desktops between the Mini and Mac Pro.

I don't believe the products you mentioned (with the exception of the iMac Pro) were intended to be one-shot products (although I don't remember as much about a few of them). They likely failed to generate a line of successors because they failed in one way or another. Either from market acceptance or for technical reasons (the 2013 Mac Pro - no good upgrade path as Apple admitted publicly). There is no indication yet that the Mac Studio is failing because of poor market acceptance, and it is over designed for cooling the M1, seemingly to support future Mx processors.

It also doesn't make sense that the Mac Studio design was started as a one-shot stop-gap because of slips in the Mac Pro program. The development time of a new form factor Mac Studio (it has external resemblance to the Mac Mini but none of internals or its actual case are shared with the Mini), drawing little beyond the M1 lineage from previous Mac designs (unlike the iMac Pro) would have to have started long before Apple was aware the Mac Pro would slip because of problems developing a more powerful SoC for that product.

The iMac Pro was likely intended to be a one-shot product in that it was created as a faster, less expensive development program than the Mac Studio being a derivative of the iMac design to get to market while they needed more time to design a new Mac Pro.

Anyway, just speculation based on my many years of developing products as an engineer, corporate business manager, and business owner. Since I'm not associated with Apple, I certainly could be wrong.
 
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AngelGuy7

macrumors regular
Nov 9, 2006
142
20
New York
I don't believe that the MacStudio is a one-shot product either but I do agree that Apple does need to better differentiate it from the MacMini and the Mac Pro. I also believe that it will be updated this year. Earlier in this thread I predicted this:

Interestingly enough I think that it all depends when Apple plans on announcing the long-awaited AR/VR headset (if it indeed comes this year as rumors suspect). I can see two scenarios:
  1. At a Spring event, Apple announces an updated M2 iMac and the AR/VR headset. Then at WWDC, Apple releases the M2 Mac Studio alongside the new MacPro.
  2. At a Spring event, Apple announces an updated M2 iMac and M2 Mac Studio. Then at WWDC, Apple releases the AR/VR headset alongside the new MacPro.

I actually now think Scenario 1 is more likely but I think Apple could release an M2 Mac Studio alongside the new MacPro with an M3 chip. Why do I think this?
  1. Apple is expected to follow a "tick-tock" yearly release schedule when it comes to Apple Silicon. M2 was the "tock" and it was announced WWDC 2022.
  2. The Mac Pro is Apple's most powerful computer and releasing it with their most powerful chip only makes sense. Based on this approach, going forward the Mac Pro would always receive the best Apple Silicon chips and less powerful chip variants would cascade down to their other products (Macbook Air, iMac, Macbook Pro, Mac Studio) afterwards. From a marketing perspective it would make sense too, as I can see them say something along the lines of "We took the same powerful Apple Silicon of the MacPro and placed it into the Macbook Air". Of course realistically it wouldn't be the same chip as the MacPro but it would make some consumers feel like their getting a great value, amazing product upon hearing this.
  3. There were rumors that the M2 product updates were delayed due to supply chain issues. If that's the case Apple may want to try to get back to their original timeline, and there's already rumors that the M2 lifecycle will be a short one.
  4. There are also rumors that Apple abandoned plans for what people were calling an M2 Extreme chip which was assumed would go into the MacPro. If that's the case, then the M3 would make sense. If they tried to release it with an M2 Ultra then some people may see that as just a fancier and costlier MacStudio (especially if they choose not to update the Mac Studio).
  5. The M3 chip is largely rumored to be based on on TSMC 3nm, which faced some delays but is apparently already in mass production. Granted, yields may be small but the MacPro doesn't have the same amount of sales as Apple's other products so yields don't need to be high just yet. The same is true generally for any supply chain issues that still exist -- MacPro sales are low so Apple could possibly would around it. Also, even if TSMC charges a premium for these chips the MacPro's high price can accommodate it.
  6. This would help better differentiate the MacStudio and the MacPro.
To me this all makes sense as being possible or likely. I don't have any inside scoop or special industry knowledge. These are just my thoughts based on limited knowledge and rumors that are circulating so I could very much be wrong.

(Updated to correct typos)
 
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sam_dean

Suspended
Sep 9, 2022
1,262
1,091
I don't believe that the MacStudio is a one-shot product either but I do agree that Apple does need to better differentiate it from the MacMini and the Mac Pro. I also believe that it will be updated this year. Earlier in this thread I predicted this:



I actually now think Scenario 1 is more likely but I think Apple could release an M2 Mac Studio alongside the new MacPro with an M3 chip. Why do I think this?
  1. Apple is expected to follow a "tic-toc" yearly release schedule when it comes to Apple Silicon. M2 was the "toc" and it was announced WWDC 2022.
  2. The Mac Pro is Apple's more powerful computer and releasing it with their most powerful chip only makes sense. Based on this approach, going forward the Mac Pro would always receive the best Apple Silicon chips and less powerful chip variants would cascade down to their other products (Macbook Air, iMac, Macbook Pro, Mac Studio) afterwards. From a marketing perspective it would make sense too, as I can see them say something along the lines of "We took the same powerful Apple Silicon of the MacPro and placed it into the Macbook Air". Of course realistically it wouldn't be the same chip as the MacPro but it would make some consumers feel like their getting a great value, amazing product upon hearing this.
  3. There were rumors that the M2 product updates were delayed due to supply chain issues. If that's the case Apple may want to try to get back to their original timeline, and there's already rumors that the M2 lifecycle will be a short one.
  4. There are also rumors that Apple abandoned plans for what people were calling an M2 Extreme chip which was assumed would go into the MacPro. If that's the case, then the M3 would make sense. If they tried to release it with an M2 Ultra then some people may see that as just a fancier and costlier MacStudio (especially if they choose not to update the Mac Studio).
  5. The M3 chip is largely rumored to be based on on TSMC 3nm, which faced some delays but is apparently already in mass production. Granted, yields may be small but the MacPro doesn't have the same amount of sales as Apple's other products so yields don't need to be high just yet. The same is true generally for any supply chain issues that still exist -- MacPro sales are low so Apple could possibly would around it. Also, even if TSMC charges a premium for these chips the MacPro's high price can accommodate it.
To me this all makes sense as being possible or likely. I don't have any inside scoop or special industry knowledge. These are just my thoughts based on limited knowledge and rumors that are circulating so I could very much be wrong.
This depends on TSMC or other fab being able to keep to schedule of their next process node.

Many points to physics as to the limits of die shrinks but the actual limit would be R&D money.

Pay for the talent and R&D budget then improves will be made hopefully on a schedule.

If you replace after the final Security Update then you will really feel the raw performance and performance per watt difference every decade or so.
 

pappl

macrumors regular
Oct 5, 2020
168
255
Europe
My opinion (which changes monthly on this subject) right now is that we should all start warming-up to the idea that the Mac Studio IS the future Mac Pro.

My wish for a new compact Mac Pro concept:
Steve Jobs in known for his passion for compact devices, i'm hoping for this spirit to dismiss the current big Mac Pro form factor:
- Next gen Mac Pro in a slightly taller Mac Studio case with M2 Ultra as base model with more powerful PSU.

This "Studio" cooling system is still huge for Apple Silicon, and could be useful for:
- Base Mac Pro M2 Ultra (76c GPU) without GPU-core expansion.
- Upgrade for Mac Pro could be internal or external (Thunderbolt) AppleSilicon GPU core expansion.
e.g. Add 38 M2 GPU cores as expansion module (2x possible like SLI for total 152c GPU) inside case over some kind of slot / or soldered (hello Apple). ;)
- Or upgrade optional with an external thunderbolt dock which looks similar to a Mac Mini for extra GPU power (with silent fan and acts as a base for Mac Pro "Studio style" case).
This could crush all Nvidia systems and be a real Mac Pro successor and open the door for AAA-gaming (VR). 🚀
I don't expect Apple VR be based on Nvidia/AMD graphics, this will be AS "magic" powered (my opinion).

Price: (RAM starts at 64GB)
- Mac Pro M2 Ultra (76c GPU) base: 6000 $
- Mac Pro M2 Ultra (76c GPU) + internal 19c AS GPU expansion: 7000 $
- Mac Pro M2 Ultra (76c GPU) + internal 38c AS GPU expansion: 8000 $
- External 76c AS GPU Thunderbolt expansion dock: 2000 $
- RAM +SSD storage upgrades skyrockets the price and could be attractive for Apple as a company.
(Why: CPU & GPU expansion 100% in house, 100% Apple core components, 100% money stays at Apple (Game over for Nvidia, AMD and Intel inside a Mac Pro), perfectly scalable for future VR applications, start making huge money with entry into VR AAA gaming)

Mac Pro extra features (step up from Studio):
- Mac Pro case with detachable fan grill (bottom/ back) for easy fan/expansion removal and dust cleaning (like all Mac Pro since 2006).
- Dual NAND storage for all models for double SSD speed
- Dual Ethernet and / or Dual HDMI 2.1
- Make Apple Silicon Mx Ultra socketable for Mac Pro, like Intel sockets for Upgrading M2 CPU/GPU to M3, M4,... -> like Intel Core i sockets. (would make Intel/AMD take this user advantage -> Pros/Gamers love this feature).
- Sell M3, M4 Ultra AS as Upgrade Modules for Mac Pro.
- Full support for external Apple Thunderbolt-PCIe-dock (Thunderbolt next gen 5) for a relative high price to keep Intel/AMD/Nvidia upgrades at distance, but possible.

Shut up and take my money!
 
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pappl

macrumors regular
Oct 5, 2020
168
255
Europe
😆 True, might be higher for some Apple magic fairy dust inside a Mac Pro.

1000 $ more for +32GB RAM / second Ethernet / detachable fan grills / socketed Mx Ultra chip and a Pro badge.

Would sound fair to me (in a fair world).
 

johnnymcc

macrumors regular
Jul 30, 2019
131
36
Found a pretty good deal on an Ultra with 4TB of storage. I am really tempted, but also don't want to miss out on potentially an amazing Mac Studio M3, or better yet, a new Mac Pro. Thoughts? I currently have the base-model Studio and I could use more horsepower when processing thousand of 48MP raw photos - which is a normal part of my workflow in Lightroom. I use the AI functions for face smoothing and the last time I batched that on thousands, it took over an hour to go through them....
 

mcnallym

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2008
1,207
932
Considering m2 Max mbp not long launched I cannot see the m3 being anytime soon.

if using it to make a living then should pay for itself

with what max pro costs then if looking at the Mac Pro when it launches then the cost of an Ultra shouldn’t be that off putting
 

tstafford

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2022
989
908
OP: Only you know if you want/need the machine.

And no one knows when either the Mac Pro or the a new Studio will be released. We can all speculate, but that's all it is. My speculation - Mac Pro is fairly soon (a few months), Studio update is a bit longer.

What I can tell you is that for my use (very light) the M1M Studio has been the best machine I've bought of any kind. It works perfectly for me, is (so far) silent and I have no regrets.
 

Boil

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2018
3,466
3,157
Stargate Command
Mac Studio will cover the Mn Max / Mn Ultra / no PCIe slots option...

Mac Pro will cover the Mn Ultra / Mn Extreme / PCIe slots option...

What we need is a Mn Extreme / no PCIe slots option...

The Mac Pro Cube...! ;^p
 

theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,979
8,390
There is ALWAYS a market for the a higher end, all powerful Mac. It is a small market, but Apple has shown that they understand now that they have to provide "something" to accommodate those users.

Except, in the past, Apple has been able to build a pro system very easily using existing chipsets developed by Intel and AMD (or IBM & Motorola if you go way back). Although the Mac Pros of the past have had some nice Apple refinements that didn't develop themselves, most of the heavy R&D had already been done by the CPU and GPU makers, who were serving a far larger market from which to claw back their development and tooling costs. Designing and making small batches of bespoke chips is insanely expensive.

With Apple Silicon, Apple have been able to start with cores designed for the massive iDevice market, develop them into the base Mx chips for the huge low-end MacBook and iPad market. Then they use more of the same cores to design the Mx Max die - and that serves everything from the 14" MacBook Pro up to the Studio Ultra (The Mx Pro being basically a Mx Max with a bit left off, the Mx Ultra being two Mx Max dies) Of course it's not quite as simple as "cut & paste" in practice but it is a lot more cost effective than producing three unique die designs - and spreads the cost over the entire Mac and iPhone line.

...but its looking as if the Mx Ultra is as far as that is going to "scale" so to produce something equivalent to the 2019 Mac Pro in terms of RAM and PCIe capacity they're going to have to produce a complete new die design - probably a separate CPU and GPU if they want to out-CPU-core AMD - and also ditch the unified RAM concept that is a significant factor in M1/M2 performance. That's a whole new level of R&D investment c.f. previous Mac Pros and the only tangible way of recouping that investment is via sales of Apple's lowest-volume product. Now, I'm not saying Apple won't do that, but its a much bigger risk than previous Mac Pros that would be very hard to justify via some sort of "halo effect" for the rest of Apple's range.

Also, they could go with AMD for graphics (and/or re-build some bridges with NVIDIA) but then, on many tasks, the expensive new Mac Pro will only ever be as good as AMD's latest, and just the same as a commodity x86 tower. Or, they could do something more radical of their own - which would then likely give so-so performance on existing code optimised for PC GPUs. That against the background of a lot of rather conservative Mac Pro customers for whom the only reason they're still paying a premium for Macs is that they can't afford to disrupt their workflow to adopt new software.

What PCI cards exist that would work in an Apple Silicon mac? Given how few Macs have slots, it is not surprising that no one bothers making cards Mac compatible.

List here (PDF): https://www.sonnettech.com/support/downloads/manuals/TB_PCIe_Card_Compatibility.pdf - M1/M2 compatibility does thin down that list somewhat, but there are a number of supported cards. if they work in a TB-to-PCIe expander there's no reason why they wouldn't work on an Apple Silicon Mac Pro.

There's really two issues here - general PCIe cards (for storage, I/O, specialist AV interfaces etc.) and high-end GPUs. I guess it wouldn't be too hard for Apple to re-purpose some of the 6 TB4 ports available on a Mx Ultra to provide 4 PCIe lanes each, which would be enough for many I/O and storage purposes - but (even if Apple U-turned and added driver support for AMD GPUs on Apple Silicon) the sort of high-end GPUs that people are pining for need 16 lanes apiece for full performance. The Xeon W in the 2019 MP has 64 lanes of PCIe. M2 Ultra really isn't the tool for that job.

Also, what happened to the parallel processing approach from a few decades back? A university networked a bunch of G4s together and got the fourth fastest supercomputer in the world? That inspired Apple to start making blade servers for a while
The idea of clustering is not dead and still widely used - see: folding@home for an extreme example...
Thing is, though, Apple doesn't really have a dog in the high-density computing race any more - and I think it was primarily the rise of Linux & Apple's switch from PPC to Intel that did for that (...one Intel blade server running a Unix-like OS is as good as any other - there's no advantage to a nice friendly UI or a shiny aluminium case).

However, CPUs in those days were mostly single core - even the 2006 Mac Pro used two dual-core Xeons to get a quad core setup. Nowadays, we have 20-core M1 Ultras and AMD are making 64 core Epycs - and its generally more efficient & easier to program a bunch of cores sharing the same RAM and I/O.

Still, with Apple Silicon, looking at clusters of (low power) Mx Ultras might be more productive than trying to pretend that it's a Xeon/Threadripper replacement suitable for a big box'o'slots.

As for the Mac Studio question...

The only real issue is that the new M2 Pro Mini, when fully tricked out, out-performs the M1 Max Studio - especially the base Studio with the 24-core GPU - and costs about the same. That problem goes away as soon as Apple upgrade the Studio to M2 Max and add a bit of inflation to the price (not nice, but probably inevitable). The Studio is still "nicer" than the Mini in various other ways - support for an extra display, front-facing ports and what looks to me like better internal construction (replaceable, if not upgradeable SSDs, all external ports on replaceable daughterboards etc.). Apple would be nuts not to update it eventually - but it's par for the course that they're dragging their feet (and the MBP is obviously a bigger selling product and will be first in the queue for M2 Max chips). The Studio always did leave a clear gap in the lineup for a Mx Pro desktop at around the price of the higher-end Intel Mini.

The problem arises if Apple tries to kludge together a M2 Ultra "Mac Pro" that is really just the equivalent of a Studio + PCIe enclosure, and tries to force people into it by not upgrading the Studio. I wouldn't put it past them, but I hope not. A "real" Apple Silicon Mac Pro would be in a different price bracket and not really compete with the Studio. Or, they could admit defeat on the Cheesegrater/Big Box'o'slots concept (AMD/Intel is the tool for that job) and just rename the Mac Studio as Mac Pro - then market the hell out of it to all those new prosumer content creators out there in the blogosphere who should be the ideal target market for a plug-and-play FCPx appliance.
 

mcnallym

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2008
1,207
932
Apple has the sales figures of all Mac Pro since 2006 to today.

- 2006-2012 they updated more frequently than every 2 years
- 2013-2017 was the trash can Mac Pro that never has a spec refresh no PCIe slots per market research
- 2017-2020 was the iMac Pro that did not get a spec refresh either no PCIe slots per market research
- 2019-today Mac Pro with PCIe slots per market research... still no refresh after 3+ years unless 2022 Mac Studio is its indirect successor

At the risk of being picky

2006 Mac Pro 1,1/2,1
2008 Mac Pro 3,1
2009 Mac Pro 4,1
2010 Mac Pro 5,1
2012 Mac Pro 5,1 slight code update

Basically 2009-2012 are the same with minor differences delidded CPU to regular CPU and GT120 to ATI 5770 and can flash a 2009 so appears as 5,1

So effectively 2 Years, 1 Year then 4 years before got a real change from the 2009 to the 2013
 

sam_dean

Suspended
Sep 9, 2022
1,262
1,091
At the risk of being picky

2006 Mac Pro 1,1/2,1
2008 Mac Pro 3,1
2009 Mac Pro 4,1
2010 Mac Pro 5,1
2012 Mac Pro 5,1 slight code update

Basically 2009-2012 are the same with minor differences delidded CPU to regular CPU and GT120 to ATI 5770 and can flash a 2009 so appears as 5,1

So effectively 2 Years, 1 Year then 4 years before got a real change from the 2009 to the 2013
Risky business.

The point still stands...

Apple will only update products that >50% of Mac Pro users will buy.

Apple has a performance/use case group that regularly looks over what feature sets will benefit each form factor's userbase the most.

It may be time for anyone who wants a PCIe expansion slot and user upgradeable CPU & GPU to move to a Windows workstation.
 

lcubed

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2020
540
326
i'd wait a few more weeks. in about a month will be the one year after the announcement of the studio.
hopefully, apple will provide a clue on their roadmap for the Pro and future Studio variants in the spring time frame.

(i'd start saving up $$$ either way since the 4TB studio is already in the 6K$ price range, and the base Pro will be north of that)

fwiw, my 64 GB/4TB ultra is fantastic for photo editing especially with the latest DXO and Topaz suites which take full advantage of the M1 Ultra ANE and GPU's. never breaks a sweat
 
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Jorbanead

macrumors 65816
Aug 31, 2018
1,209
1,438
Rumors suggest the Studio is not going to be updated for awhile (either it’ll be on M3 or maybe not at all).

The Mac Pro is a wildcard, but it’s a safe to say it’s going to cost more than the studio. While M2 is great, we know it’s only a small improvement from M1 so a hypothetical M2 Ultra in a Mac Pro wouldn’t be much to worry about.

If you’re able to find a good deal on the Ultra now, and truly need it, I’d say go for it. Worst case is they announce a Mac Pro sometime this year for a lot more money.
 
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xraydoc

Contributor
Oct 9, 2005
11,001
5,470
192.168.1.1
Personally, I'd only consider buying the 20-core/64-core M1 Ultra version of the Studio.

I wouldn't buy the M1 Max version. I'd buy a MacBook Pro M2 Max instead, even if I never took it off my desk, and even knowing the price differential (paying for a laptop display that really wouldn't get used).

I actually did basically this. Since there was no Mac mini M1 Pro (just the regular M1), I bought a 14" MacBook Pro instead, which acts as a desktop over 85% of the time.

I will predict that the M1 Ultra Studio will be significantly less expensive than the (rumored) M2 Ultra Mac Pro.
 

tstafford

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2022
989
908
I wouldn't buy the M1 Max version. I'd buy a MacBook Pro M2 Max instead, even if I never took it off my desk, and even knowing the price differential (paying for a laptop display that really wouldn't get used).
Plus you need a TB4 doc to get the I/O. And you are then dealing with the battery which is a liability too. I get why you say this, but for $1799 refurb the base Studio is a lot of machine. I wouldn't trade mine for a MBP14 Max although I do get the argument.
 
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