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MacBook Air rev C, "Everything we know, and everything we want." (orig. desperate)
- Thread starter Scottsdale
- Start date
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Up or Down or Both?
A MBA update is way overdue. Yet we're all waiting for new low voltage Intel chips...
But apart from CPU, RAM and HD updates I think the main question is where the future roadmap will take the Air.
Will it go downstream?
Like the rumored $1,300-$1,500 price tag.
Will it go upstream?
With OLED display, 256GB SSD, external BluRay drive.
Or both?
But wouldn't that spread the already thin MBA sales even thinner?
That last question is the big one.
I can totally see the MBA go either way, or even both. But if it is really true that recent sales are a bit down, then would it really make sense to split the MBA into two models?
I think it does.
The reason sales might be down (if they really are) is likely the outdated specs where people are waiting for an update. For example 2GB RAM? Come on! That's as future proof as GM stocks... It'll be bare minimum for any OS by the end of 2009 - with no room to grow. A bit rough for the Air's current price tag.
But I wouldn't be surprised if Apple wouldn't know where to take the Air either. Up or down?
How better to test this by splitting the Air into 2 models and testing the market?
A MBA update is way overdue. Yet we're all waiting for new low voltage Intel chips...
But apart from CPU, RAM and HD updates I think the main question is where the future roadmap will take the Air.
Will it go downstream?
Like the rumored $1,300-$1,500 price tag.
Will it go upstream?
With OLED display, 256GB SSD, external BluRay drive.
Or both?
But wouldn't that spread the already thin MBA sales even thinner?
That last question is the big one.
I can totally see the MBA go either way, or even both. But if it is really true that recent sales are a bit down, then would it really make sense to split the MBA into two models?
I think it does.
The reason sales might be down (if they really are) is likely the outdated specs where people are waiting for an update. For example 2GB RAM? Come on! That's as future proof as GM stocks... It'll be bare minimum for any OS by the end of 2009 - with no room to grow. A bit rough for the Air's current price tag.
But I wouldn't be surprised if Apple wouldn't know where to take the Air either. Up or down?
How better to test this by splitting the Air into 2 models and testing the market?
Absolutely not true. Apple has a very close relationship with Samsung and it's entirely possible they will get the first dibs on their 1.8" 256GB SSD. Apple has been known to pull a number of "first to the market" with the component vendors. They have enough clout to do that.
True, often before suppliers even announce a new component it is already released in an Apple Mac computer. I believe this is true of the Samsung 1.8" 128 GB drive. Wasn't that supposedly the hold up on the rev B?
I think if Apple wants a 256 GB SSD in a rev C MBA in June, it will be in there.
To the other argument about a thinner ULV CPU, I would fear that MBA wouldn't be a primary Mac capable computer. I only want an MBA that is capable of being my primary Mac. I vote no for a thinner case unless it can still have a LV CPU, 4 GB RAM, Nvidia GPU and etc... and I doubt all that.
Laws of physics be damned! Actually didn't you just contradict yourself, Scottsdale? Apple wanted the 128GB SSD in September/October of 2008 but Samsung couldn't produce enough of them until late November (I believe I remember people just getting them before Thanksgiving, some disappointed they didn't get their shipments until after). I'm sure Apple wants 256GB SSDs, but some things are difficult, especially in a large production scale. Sometimes even Apple has to wait.
And don't forget that iphones are gobbling up A LOT of NAND production right now (Apple ordered 100 million 8Gb NAND flash chips in April, most likely for a 32GB iphone.) What's more important to Apple-- selling 250,000 new Airs or 5 million new iphones, each with a monthly service fee kickback?
LMAO!!! NPH.
Actually, I think I am trying to say that if Apple wanted a 256 GB SSD for the rev C MBA, it started working on it long enough ago to make it happen. The tech is there for a 256 GB SSD, and size isn't a constraint really from what I have read. It's about the cost of doing it. So, if it's expensive, sure, maybe Apple will say 128 GB SSD is big enough. How about a 192 GB SSD, or even a 160 GB 180 GB or whatever. I feel that Apple would think 192 GB SSD would feel like an acceptable upgrade for a primary Mac capable rev C MBA.
Heck, we could all be wrong and Apple may be going backwards with 64 GB in low end and 128 GB SSD in high end in a thinner, lighter, more portable focused rev C MBA.
The bottom line, we all have to wait it out! Tomorrow is a possibility. I think either the Tuesday or Wednesday two weeks after WWDC is the date. Apple has delivered on those dates, and anything that could happen... it could be we just get a MB and MBP. It could be we get a rev C MBA in September or October.
We can all keep speculating, but the truth is we have no more information... it's all speculation.
We know the SL9600 CPU is ready. 4 GB RAM isn't a problem. The glass trackpad probably costs pennies to make. The battery tech has been ready for six months. The only thing we are not sure of is the SSD, but I have to believe the tech is there to make it slightly smaller especially with the relationship Samsung and Apple has. But maybe it's not even an issue. Maybe the SSDs have been ready in the factory for two months.
We just don't know until we finally get the rev C update. I am done speculating now. We have nearly 300 posts of speculations and wants. I have said what I want a million times, but that may not be what Apple is thinking.
Patience with Apple is tough, especially when they commonly disappoint with long waits or upsetting directions not foreseen. I will tell you what, if we have to wait six more months for a rev C MBA that is focused on an Arrandale CPU, 4 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, 6-hour battery tech, glass trackpad, OLED DISPLAY, and black aluminum shell, I will happily wait!
It would just be nice to know what is going on... and that's why we are all here. We think if we speculate what each of us wants, maybe that is the direction Apple will take. Although, it rarely works that way with Apple.
Heck, I am all over the place with this speculation. None of it is based on actual inside information. Remember, my inside informer said that we would NOT get an MBA update with the next MB and MBP update!!! I am just hopeful that information is wrong, based on what all of us here want and how passionate we are for an evolving primary Mac rev C MBA.
First let me say I had one of the first rev A MBA in my area. So I'm not a hater of this machine although I no longer have one. And I'm not meaning to direct this only at you.
However the amount of fantasy in this thread is unbelievable. It's certainly possibly and likely that deep in secret labs 256GB and 512GB 1.8" SSDs are humming away.
But larger SSDs in this format, for a price Apple would pay, and for the quantity Apple would need do not exist at this point in time. A 256GB 2.5" SSD is currently still pretty expensive. A 1.8" would be even more expensive. How likely do this Apple would be to bring out a $4000 MBA? Not very likely right now.
256 1.8" Ssd
Well, Toshiba just before CES 2009 announced 512GB 2.5" and 256GB 1.8" SSDs.
(Tom's Hardware Link)
They said then that samples will be available in Q1 2009. Q2 is almost over now and so I fully expect both to be available to Apple soon, i.e. for the next MacBook Pro and MacBook Air revision.
Well, Toshiba just before CES 2009 announced 512GB 2.5" and 256GB 1.8" SSDs.
(Tom's Hardware Link)
They said then that samples will be available in Q1 2009. Q2 is almost over now and so I fully expect both to be available to Apple soon, i.e. for the next MacBook Pro and MacBook Air revision.
First, if Apple is to charge a high premium rate for its high end MBA, it has to include much better components that are an upgrade from the rev B MBA. Maybe the 256 GB SSD isn't ready. I did mention a 192 GB SSD as being a potential upgrade. I cannot believe that with Apple's relationship with Samsung, that a 256 GB SSD in 1.8" 5mm height would cost more than $500 per drive. That is the Apple surcharge for the SSD in the rev B. All the other component costs are way down. The high end MBA buyer is going to look for more than a 128 GB SSD. However, I do believe a 192 GB SSD would be a sufficient upgrade.
I still say we all wait and see before we go saying laws of physics, moore's law and etc are being violated for a Samsung made 1.8" SSD drive of 256 GB to be ready for a JUNE 2009 MBA rev C! Let's just wait and see. Apple does it time and time again. I believe there has been ample time, yet I do agree that there is nothing on the market for a 1.8" SSD of 256 GB. So, maybe it's ready, maybe it's not... maybe Apple doesn't even care???
Let's just wait and see. I still predict a 256 GB SSD... maybe that's wrong. But nobody telling me here will convince me, only Apple can do that. 192 GB is acceptable, and 128 GB will be a huge disappointment for me. Although 4 GB of RAM is still my number one focus.
It's really too bad Apple cannot change the case and allow for a 2.5" drive, as I would give up a little space for a full drive which I could later upgrade myself. Then, I wouldn't care what capacity drive Apple put in it, as I would throw an Intel SSD in it for maximum speed/performance now. Then would upgrade later for a larger drive that improves on speed.
Scottsdale you are an eternal optimist. I guess that's admirable.
Can someone please explain this, though: everyone keeps saying "The tech is there" What does that even mean? Isn't that like saying you know how to play basketball, you just have to go out there and beat the Lakers? I mean, knowing the basics of something is easy-- actually doing it is the hard part. We may have the basics of NAND RAM, but squeezing twice the electrons in the same space (or the same electrons in half the space, however you want to look at it) is HARD. If it was easy, they would've skipped 64GB and 128GB and gone straight to 256GB. And if it was so easy to just squeeze the NAND chips in a 5mm 1.8" drive, they would do away with 2.5" drives altogether. A premier 2.5" 256GB drive (the Corsair with the new controller) is just coming out now and is $700. So what would a 1.8" one cost? Twice that?
I'd be happy to be proved wrong but I think it's a mistake to take the "Apple can do anything it wants approach". Even if it is true, I think what Apple wants to sell 5 million new iphones by the end of the year.
Can someone please explain this, though: everyone keeps saying "The tech is there" What does that even mean? Isn't that like saying you know how to play basketball, you just have to go out there and beat the Lakers? I mean, knowing the basics of something is easy-- actually doing it is the hard part. We may have the basics of NAND RAM, but squeezing twice the electrons in the same space (or the same electrons in half the space, however you want to look at it) is HARD. If it was easy, they would've skipped 64GB and 128GB and gone straight to 256GB. And if it was so easy to just squeeze the NAND chips in a 5mm 1.8" drive, they would do away with 2.5" drives altogether. A premier 2.5" 256GB drive (the Corsair with the new controller) is just coming out now and is $700. So what would a 1.8" one cost? Twice that?
I'd be happy to be proved wrong but I think it's a mistake to take the "Apple can do anything it wants approach". Even if it is true, I think what Apple wants to sell 5 million new iphones by the end of the year.
I don't think 256GB SSD is such a big deal, for me anyway. I'd take a processor/video/RAM upgrades over extra disk space any day. My main storage is multi-Terabyte NAS at home, and 128GB is plenty of space for full music collection plus a few movies.
I'd be perfectly happy with 128GB, especially if it keeps the new MBA price under $2K.
I'd be perfectly happy with 128GB, especially if it keeps the new MBA price under $2K.
Let's wait and see. 256 GB SSDs have been out for quite awhile now. I do not believe the costs would be too high to make it in 1.8" form. I could be wrong. I am no expert. I have just read a bunch of articles trying to figure it out. One thing I do know, is that the SSD means the world to the MBA.
I am waiting to see who's right and who's wrong. Speculation isn't going to get us there. A Toshiba was shown to be already available in 1.8." Isn't like Apple doesn't worth with Toshiba, so either Toshiba or Samsung could provide a 256 GB SSD.
That is optimism, as I do realize a 192 GB SSD could happen too. So could a 128 GB SSD that is no more capacity than the rev B.
I am waiting to see now.
Being that the article I referenced was one year old as I did mention... the Q4 it was referring to has already passed.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/25/samsung-announces-crazy-fast-256gb-ssd-our-knees-buckle/
Moore's Law actually applies only to the increase in the number of transistors in processors. The increase in storage capacity is described by Kryder's Law and doubles approximately annually (compared to Moore's Law that doubles the count of transistors every 18 months).
Thus, there is a limitation only if the 128GB SSD was the bleeding edge of technology when it was introduced. Since industrialising a product usually takes in the region of six months, it's entirely likely that a 256GB unit is currently available in some advanced prototype stage.
I have been following this thread for a while now, and have been in the market for a new light weight laptop (didn't have any particular preference for PC or Mac, either or) for a couple months. Ended up settling on, in theory, the MBA.
It's funny, I originally looked at getting a netbook, but just couldn't bring myself to buy something so underpowered. But I want lightweight and the air seemed (and still does) to fit the bill, particularly compared to PCs. But of course I wanted to wait for a refresh, most particularly I need at least 4gb of RAM.
But as time goes on, I'm starting to look at the ordinary 13" Mac, especially now the screens have been brought into line with the MBA and MBPs. And that got me thinking. To me, picking up a 13" Mac and the MBA there's a fairly small diff in weight with similar footprint. Don't really care about thinness myself. Actually it's a bit of a turnoff because of the lack of rigidity.
And this makes me think, there's about 700gms of differentiation between a MBA and a 13" UMB and that to me seems suboptimal (from a market perspective). So I wonder if the 13" UMB is being segmented towards users like me, who need portable, small footprint power with few compromises? And ift hat's the 13" UMB then might the MBA actually go the other way towards ultra, netbook style portability. I.e. lighter/thinner still, using the new SUxxxx ULV chips?
I'm still waiting for a refresh and I'm happy to keep waiting, but I guess I'm not particularly brand conscious and I haven't bought an apple product yet so I've got no cognitive dissonance to fight. To me though, looking from the outside in as a prospective buyer, I think logic would suggest the MBA is going to get weaker, not stronger going forward.
Still if they bring out a 2ghz+, 4gb MBA at like 1.nothing kilos I'm up for that.
It's funny, I originally looked at getting a netbook, but just couldn't bring myself to buy something so underpowered. But I want lightweight and the air seemed (and still does) to fit the bill, particularly compared to PCs. But of course I wanted to wait for a refresh, most particularly I need at least 4gb of RAM.
But as time goes on, I'm starting to look at the ordinary 13" Mac, especially now the screens have been brought into line with the MBA and MBPs. And that got me thinking. To me, picking up a 13" Mac and the MBA there's a fairly small diff in weight with similar footprint. Don't really care about thinness myself. Actually it's a bit of a turnoff because of the lack of rigidity.
And this makes me think, there's about 700gms of differentiation between a MBA and a 13" UMB and that to me seems suboptimal (from a market perspective). So I wonder if the 13" UMB is being segmented towards users like me, who need portable, small footprint power with few compromises? And ift hat's the 13" UMB then might the MBA actually go the other way towards ultra, netbook style portability. I.e. lighter/thinner still, using the new SUxxxx ULV chips?
I'm still waiting for a refresh and I'm happy to keep waiting, but I guess I'm not particularly brand conscious and I haven't bought an apple product yet so I've got no cognitive dissonance to fight. To me though, looking from the outside in as a prospective buyer, I think logic would suggest the MBA is going to get weaker, not stronger going forward.
Still if they bring out a 2ghz+, 4gb MBA at like 1.nothing kilos I'm up for that.
Good point, which would make it widely available, somewhere around 2010 q1 arrandale. Full Circle.
Thanks for clearing that up. So if a 1.8" 5mm 128GB SSD was first able to be mass produced and into Macbook Airs in Nov. 2008 (it wasn't bleeding edge at that point but its production did delay the Air), then according to Kryder's Law Nov. 2009 is when a 1.8" 5mm 256GB SSD should be ready to be mass produced and in Airs?
I feel it's a mistake to go by announcements, press releases, and "lab only" products since so much of that game is one-upping their competitors purely in the publicity game.
I'm really not convinced that Apple would pass on savings to the consumer. I'm therefore more inclined to hope for higher specifications at the same price-point, because it entails higher value for the customer (me).
Unfortunately, consumers will always be the ones paying a premium for new technology. One day SSD will be in the current price range of HDD (and hopefully replaces it), but until then we have to pay these ridiculous prices for any product that contains one.
To me, the weight difference between MB and MBA is night and day. MBA can be easily picked up just using two fingers of one hand.. while 13" MB feels like a brick in comparison.
But if you've successfully convinced yourself that 50% weight difference b/w MB and MBA is insignificant - by all means go for MB
New stuff I'd like to see...
256 gb drive
2 USB ports
4 gb ddr3 1066 ram
and a newly designed "ethernet" port...with a design to reduce the size of the port hole...using a ribbon cable inside the case and using just the aluminum AIR body to enclose the port hole where the pins will reside. Someone will do it first....will it be Apple? we know they are capable. the reason why the ethernet is a big reason is for mainly techs who want the AIR's mobility but for security reasons can't use WiFi in the office..the usb dongle is old school...and 1 more thing to pack in the bag...
If that happened then...this could be the best ultraportable out there for everyone...powerfull to run VM's and some photoshopping..
or just make a 2nd model slightly thicker with the ethernet port.....I mean just look at the MSI models...which closely resemble the AIR..
256 gb drive
2 USB ports
4 gb ddr3 1066 ram
and a newly designed "ethernet" port...with a design to reduce the size of the port hole...using a ribbon cable inside the case and using just the aluminum AIR body to enclose the port hole where the pins will reside.
Someone will do it first....will it be Apple? we know they are capable. the reason why the ethernet is a big reason is for mainly techs who want the AIR's mobility but for security reasons can't use WiFi in the office..the usb dongle is old school...and 1 more thing to pack in the bag...If that happened then...this could be the best ultraportable out there for everyone...powerfull to run VM's and some photoshopping..
or just make a 2nd model slightly thicker with the ethernet port.....I mean just look at the MSI models...which closely resemble the AIR..
Nah, not happening.. Most people will argue that if Apple should add any more ports to the Air, it should be second USB 2.0. I am one of those "mobile techs" who uses wired Ethernet in the office on a rare occasion - USB dongle is just a minor inconvenience.
I am completely happy with the ports. The only change I would welcome would be a digital audio port out instead of the analog one in the rev B.
I really don't see a need for ethernet or extra USB ports... it defeats the point of the MBA being futuristic and wireless connectivity is perfect for me. The AirPort Extreme Base Station with attached backup drive and printers is a definite must! The LED ACD is a perfect docking station.
I just see no point in additional ports???
I really don't see a need for ethernet or extra USB ports... it defeats the point of the MBA being futuristic and wireless connectivity is perfect for me. The AirPort Extreme Base Station with attached backup drive and printers is a definite must! The LED ACD is a perfect docking station.
I just see no point in additional ports???