MacBook Air rev C, "Everything we know, and everything we want." (orig. desperate)

[iMacmatician]

Agreed... the MBA's design is the future of Mac notebooks! That is why the design will live on even if the brand name changes. For instance, there is a rumor the current MBA will become the MB. That makes a world of sense. The Pro notebooks can all be with optical drive and dedicated graphics, while the MB can be the current MBA working on maximum portability.

Absolutely, and I don't see why the white MacBook can't still live on as a cheaper notebook option. Maybe that's another reason why the white MacBook appears to be retained.

We don't, do we? I for once I m not expecting it until early 2010

In that case I would think the next update would not have the 256 GB SSD, but the update after that would.

 

[reallynotnick]

Does anyone know if there is a larger 1.8in HDD apple could use?

 

[Scottsdale]

Does anyone know if there is a larger 1.8in HDD apple could use?

No, but surely Apple has a great partnership with Samsung and will have a custom made SSD for the rev C. The natural expected evolution would dictate a 256 GB SSD. I bet it is ready to go. I also think we will probably see 128 in low end and 256 in high end if Mac notebook brands don't change.

 

[applecultvictim]

Absolutely, and I don't see why the white MacBook can't still live on as a cheaper notebook option. Maybe that's another reason why the white MacBook appears to be retained.

In that case I would think the next update would not have the 256 GB SSD, but the update after that would.

Sure, that's my thinking too...that said as Scottsdale said they might have that 256 up their sleeve and ready to go...but I don't think ssd tech -and this is just my uninformed opinion- can advance so quickly as for samsung to double capacity in such a short while and -let's bear that in mind- maintaining such a slim form factor. So, cpu bump anytime before early 2010 (and hopefully no screen lines too) and arrandale and 256 ssd in 2010, together with the phasing out of the hd model.


As for the probably more interesting discussion of product placement with macbooks and the air, as I ve said before (was it here?) it's interesting to see where the coming -and I think this time it's definately coming- table will fit in the line up. I for once am conflicted as to how I am going to fit the table in my personal needs. I already have an e-ink device which is great for books and I find myself using more and more my iphone as a book format browser/reader in the net, and for some light texting via the quite good on screen keyboard. So I would really go for the tablet for sure, and since I have a blackbook which I (perennially lol!!!) what to change (and a monster 6 hd pc I want to swap for a nice nas), I cant figure out if I should get the 17" matte mbp for home use and the tablet for outside. An imac an air and a tablet (thats not the most budget conscious senario really...)....

And I think this translates to a discussion of where apple is placing the tablet and the air. I still don't think the air becoming the macbook anytime soon, certainly for me, no sooner than 2 years. But then again now that the screens are great in the macbook (or much better) I can't see what they are going to use as differentiating tec to place the products?!?!?!?! Extended on screen gestures - touch screens for the air? A blue ray drive possibly for all the macbook/pros that is certainly the most obvious differentiation - but apple hasn't shown signs of alligning itself with the bag of hurt. That said apple being apple they would probably want to get rid of all the slim line superdrives in asia (As they did with the cheapo screens) at a +++ profit for them before going blue ray. Let's not forget that apple has been on the blue ray consortium, and was one of the founding members...

Anyway I don't want to go on a tangent here, but it's interesting to discuss how we see this things playing out, because there's clearly a convergence in devices as per the iphone game/music/mail/net paradigm, but there is also a divergence as per the multiple computers we have in the form of different work computers/home main computers/mobile ones etc. So there's a clearly two ways here one going for all in one super mobile solutions (the air) and the other one going for separate smart phone, home computer, and decent size laptop on the go if need be....and somewhere in there comes the tablet....Man it's an exciting time for mac geeks!!!

 

[enfanteribl]

I don't know if someone has commented on this, but doesn't the fact that the cheapest white MacBook has received the 2.13Ghz chip mean that the MBA is going to get a speed bump? It would seem odd if even the bargain basement MB was faster than the much pricier MBA. Mind you, logic and such things don't always go together....

 

[Prenvo]

I don't know if someone has commented on this, but doesn't the fact that the cheapest white MacBook has received the 2.13Ghz chip mean that the MBA is going to get a speed bump? It would seem odd if even the bargain basement MB was faster than the much pricier MBA. Mind you, logic and such things don't always go together....

The white MacBook was 2GHz before the refresh: it was still a higher clockspeed than the high-end MBA

 

[iMacmatician]

Sure, that's my thinking too...that said as Scottsdale said they might have that 256 up their sleeve and ready to go...but I don't think ssd tech -and this is just my uninformed opinion- can advance so quickly as for samsung to double capacity in such a short while and -let's bear that in mind- maintaining such a slim form factor. So, cpu bump anytime before early 2010 (and hopefully no screen lines too) and arrandale and 256 ssd in 2010, together with the phasing out of the hd model.

Sounds like a reasonable prediction, I have also been thinking of 256 GB SSD first coming in the Arrandale update. Plus the drives that are used in the MacBook Air are the thinner 1.8" ones (5 mm). I can see the HDD being phased out in 2010 but if Apple wants to reduce the price of the Air, there will likely be a HDD on the cheaper model.

 

[glitch44]

Today's Tuesday... I'll be nigh surprised if a MacBookAir refresh is released today.

If stimulating sales is their goal, I doubt they'd do a refresh on the first day of E3. Nintendo and Sony press conferences today. Any news they had would get lost in the shuffle. Besides, a $100-$200 price cut is a safer way to stimulate more sales. That way they don't have to shell out more money for R&D or new parts.

 

[glitch44]

No, but surely Apple has a great partnership with Samsung and will have a custom made SSD for the rev C. The natural expected evolution would dictate a 256 GB SSD. I bet it is ready to go. I also think we will probably see 128 in low end and 256 in high end if Mac notebook brands don't change.

When exactly did the 1.8" 128GB SSD come out? Moore's Law says 2 years before a 256GB one is ready. I suspect it's not ready-- it's in Apple's interest to keep it a secret for the big reveal to raise their stock price, but it's in Samsung's interest to reveal (officially or through planned "leak") the info to raise their stock price.

 

[Veinticinco]

When exactly did the 1.8" 128GB SSD come out? Moore's Law says 2 years before a 256GB one is ready. I suspect it's not ready-- it's in Apple's interest to keep it a secret for the big reveal to raise their stock price, but it's in Samsung's interest to reveal (officially or through planned "leak") the info to raise their stock price.

Moore's law does not really apply in this case. An MBA-friendly 256GB SSD is almost certainly in production. Possibly even ready to be installed. I personally don't think this is the hardware bottleneck precluding the rev.C. I'm not even sure there is a hardware bottleneck anymore, just a feeling we're close to an announcement/release in the next couple of weeks or so.

 

[freddiecable]

I have a revision A MBA. If there is one thing I would like to see - yes 4GB RAM. Revision B has the better graphics card...so I would be quite happy with a revision B. BUT - again - 2GB RAM is not enough - especially since it is soldered on.

 

[glitch44]

Moore's law does not really apply in this case. An MBA-friendly 256GB SSD is almost certainly in production. Possibly even ready to be installed. I personally don't think this is the hardware bottleneck precluding the rev.C. I'm not even sure there is a hardware bottleneck anymore, just a feeling we're close to an announcement/release in the next couple of weeks or so.

How does Moore's law not apply? I thought it's been accurate for over 40 years?

 

[iMacmatician]

Moore's law does not really apply in this case. An MBA-friendly 256GB SSD is almost certainly in production. Possibly even ready to be installed.

Mind if I ask if there are any links to sources stating production of a 1.8" 5 mm 256 GB SSD?

 

[jdechko]

And Apple would make a fortune selling them at $1399. Like I said though, that could be the base price for the average MB buyer. Then, Apple could upsell like crazy. Think of all of us MBA fans who would load it up with every option available. I don't think Apple's model of selling one Mac to all works as well as this model could with a ton of BTO options.

But if you look at Apple's business model, both current and previous, it has always been to offer a limited line of products with very limited hardware options. Even still, many of the options are compatible across several lines (RAM is compatible across all lines except the MacPro, Hard drives for the MacBook/Pro and the Mini and drives for the iMac and Mac Pro).

With the exception of the Mac Pro, the CPU is soldered to the logic board, which means that you are not really upgrading, but using a different logic board altogether (which is also why I think that the Air won't get 2/4/6/8 GB RAM configuration options as you effectively double or more the number of logic boards needed on hand).

Would really like to see the price drop as well (maybe 1599/1999) but I don't see it going to 1399.

 

[applecultvictim]

Ι don't want to see it drop that much either, I like the premium aspect of it, not out of snobishness of course, but out of assuring that the best available (or close) parts go into the air and not some crap from netbooks (or close)

That said, I will have to repeat that we should keep an eye on the rumored tablet too, to see how it all figures out in an ensemble.

 

[hitekalex]

A blue ray drive possibly for all the macbook/pros that is certainly the most obvious differentiation - but apple hasn't shown signs of alligning itself with the bag of hurt. That said apple being apple they would probably want to get rid of all the slim line superdrives in asia (As they did with the cheapo screens) at a +++ profit for them before going blue ray. Let's not forget that apple has been on the blue ray consortium, and was one of the founding members...

As far as Blu-Ray goes.. all that Apple needs to do is add BD to the existing external Air SuperDrive.. and make it compatible with all Macs - Mini, Pro, MacBooks. Then you can just plug it into LED Cinema Display and be done with it. There is no need for BD drives inside MacBooks (at least below 17").. The space is much better used to drop some weight or add battery capacity.

 

[reallynotnick]

How does Moore's law not apply? I thought it's been accurate for over 40 years?

Well it didn't apply for Rev A to Rev B going from 64GB to 128GB in under a year. I believe the biggest problem with SSDs is cost not the physical space (yet), if you have seen in the last couple of years SSD sizes have skyrocketed and prices have fallen like crazy.
Now I am no engineer and don't claim to really understand Moore's law, but it clearly has not applied thus far.

 

[iMacmatician]

Ι don't want to see it drop that much either, I like the premium aspect of it, not out of snobishness of course, but out of assuring that the best available (or close) parts go into the air and not some crap from netbooks (or close)

Maybe they could use lower spec components (like smaller drives) that are still the best available in their price class.

Well it didn't apply for Rev A to Rev B going from 64GB to 128GB in under a year.

Were there 64 GB 1.8" 5 mm SSDs before 2008?

 

[nj-mac-user]

When exactly did the 1.8" 128GB SSD come out? Moore's Law says 2 years before a 256GB one is ready. I suspect it's not ready-- it's in Apple's interest to keep it a secret for the big reveal to raise their stock price, but it's in Samsung's interest to reveal (officially or through planned "leak") the info to raise their stock price.

Apparantly, there is a Samsung 1.8" 256GB SSD that should be due out by now from this announcement one year ago. Now whether or not it's 5mm who knows. But it seems the technology is currently here contrary to what I previously believed.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/25/samsung-announces-crazy-fast-256gb-ssd-our-knees-buckle/

 

[applecultvictim]

As far as Blu-Ray goes.. all that Apple needs to do is add BD to the existing external Air SuperDrive.. and make it compatible with all Macs - Mini, Pro, MacBooks. Then you can just plug it into LED Cinema Display and be done with it. There is no need for BD drives inside MacBooks (at least below 17").. The space is much better used to drop some weight or add battery capacity.

I would think so too, that's what I d like to see as well, but I mentioned it as an intentional differentiation scenario like the combo drive vs. the superdrive was to catch up with what the competition is doing. That said I wouldn't want it either...heck even on an imac and the drive seems a thing of the past.

 

[glitch44]

Were there 64 GB 1.8" 5 mm SSDs before 2008?

Samsung 64GB 1.8" 5mm drives when into production in June of 2007. I believe the 128GB SSD Airs didn't ship until the end of November 2008, so it was about 18 months from 64 --> 128. That was the original Moore's Law, correct? Before he changed it in 1975?

 

[iMacmatician]

Apparantly, there is a Samsung 1.8" 256GB SSD that should be due out by now from this announcement one year ago. Now whether or not it's 5mm who knows. But it seems the technology is currently here contrary to what I previously believed.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/25/samsung-announces-crazy-fast-256gb-ssd-our-knees-buckle/

The 1.8" is coming in Q4, so I'd say an update soon with 128 GB SSD, then an update in Q1 2010 with this 256 GB SSD. If the update's coming a few months from now, we may see the 256 GB SSD as an option for a later shipping date.

That is, if this is 5 mm.

 

[Scottsdale]

I don't think that it isn't doable. I would prefer to think that Apple could have one built and Samsung would do it if the price were right.

Look, there are plenty of 256 GB SSDs on the market, so this is just a size limitation. Just because one hasn't been introduced doesn't mean it isn't ready for the rev C MBA.

The biggest question is, does Apple care enough about the MBA to put a 256 GB SSD in it? I would assume that the price would be no greater than the original cost to put a 128 GB SSD in the rev B. Sure, those costs have probably dropped by more than 50% now.

I think it could be the holdup, or it could be ready, or maybe Apple just doesn't care??? We really don't know, but I cannot believe that if Apple wanted it ready for a June release, that it wouldn't be ready.

I am ready to see what happens next. One Tuesday in June down, no rev C MBA. Still thinking the second Tuesday/Wednesday after WWDC.

 

[iMacmatician]

Very optimistic there are we?

 

[bcaslis]

...
Look, there are plenty of 256 GB SSDs on the market, so this is just a size limitation. Just because one hasn't been introduced doesn't mean it isn't ready for the rev C MBA.
...

No there are not. I find exactly zero 1.8" 256GB SSDs available. All the ones are 2.5". There are none at the moment. This means there is exactly 0% possibility of a 256GB SSD MBA announced anytime soon. Apple isn't the only user of this technology so some company will announce this storage long before it becomes available. Maybe some will be out later this year but not now.