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MacBook Air rev C, "Everything we know, and everything we want." (orig. desperate)
- Thread starter Scottsdale
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256 Gb Ssd
Everybody is expecting the 256 GB SSD in the upcoming update. Do we have evidence that such a SSD will be available in the next few months?
Everybody is expecting the 256 GB SSD in the upcoming update. Do we have evidence that such a SSD will be available in the next few months?
Whether or not more drive capacity is added is of no concern to me. Give me a processor and memory bump, and I'm happy. But do it soon!
If we are to see an Air refresh at WWDC, would it most likely happen opening day?
If we are to see an Air refresh at WWDC, would it most likely happen opening day?
If Apple did that it would allow me to merge my 15" MacBook Pro and RevB Air into one machine.
Great for me, bad for Apple and I'm sure coming out with a "full power" MacBook Air is something Apple does NOT want to do, (until they're forced to by competition which hasn't quite happened yet).
A full power MBA would hurt the sales of MacBooks and MacBook Pro's, especially if Apple made a 15" MBA - maybe some day but a year away or more.
Like someone else mentioned in this thread ... we are the "uber geeks" who pay attention to every detail of our computers and the industry too - we think about our "Dream Machines" a lot ... the regular cosumer does not.
Apple makes it's decisions based on 'how to make the most money possible' refreshing the MBA with full power spec's is for sure not a wise business move yet.
Look at the price they're getting for the revB MBA's now, sales have slowed down sure, but that's not because potential buyers are waiting for a revC it's because the worldwide economy has ground to a halt, people whether they have money or not are spending less on luxuries, netbooks are the current fad because they're small AND cheap. Apple is going to go further updating the Whitebook and updating the screen on the 13" uni-MacBook, as they just have - both were smart business moves.
The MBA probably isn't really getting much attention from Apple right now. That would be like Mercedes doing major improvements to their 500 series right now, they aren't, instead they're focusing price and quality with 'bang for the buck' > the 200 and 300 series.
Something else may be in the works, a $1,000 itablet perhaps but to expect more than a minor speed bump to the MBA right now is is hoping for the highly unlikely, imo.
Like I said, home I'm wrong, but hey, we're less than 10 days from finding out!
Apple is NOT going to kill the Air.. Just not going to happen. The made a whole event out of introduction of a "revolutionary" Air little over a year ago. To kill it off would be a huge admission of failure, and would be very non-Apple-like.
Sales numbers may not be super high now, but that's to be expected for a luxury product in a time of an economic slump. Do you see BMW killing off M-series or Mercedes killing off 500 series, just because sales may have dropped this year. The answer is no, and it's going to be the same for Air.
I think the other scenarios of MB/MBP lines eventually evolving into Air-like form factor is much more likely. Apple clearly believes the laptop future is in thin ultra-portable devices sans Optical Drive. So that's where Apple notebook line-up is going to be heading over time.. NOT in the opposite direction of "thick and heavy".
The problem with this argument is that why would Apple have even made a greatly improved Rev. B with a superior GPU and increased HDD/SSD capacities? Based on the logic you described they would've only made minute performance improvements or just cosmetic changes to keep the Air extremely inferior to the rest of the Mac lineup.
The vast majority of Air owners don't have both an Air and a Macbook/Macbook Pro. I doubt very much that Apple is holding back on performance just because they want to make money from this extreme minority.
I believe the obvious reason they haven't reeeally improved the Air performance wise is simply because of the lack of current technology. Is there even a 1.8" 256GB SSD small enough to fit into an Air? Certainly not to my knowledge. They can only improve at the pace that technology allows them to.
I agree here. The MBA rev B is mostly capable of being a primary Mac, especially with the SSD. The business model or brand of the MBA is to sell it as a luxury or premium laptop offering making it as capable as a MB but super portable and lightweight. I would suspect less than 25% of original MBAs were primary Macs, whereas I would bet far more than 50% of rev B MBAs are used as primary Macs.
I would have to believe Apple is More than pleased to lose a MB or MBP sale for a MBA! The MBA has to represent an extremely more profitable sale than either the MB or MBP. Look at the pricing of the MBA it's similar to MBP, at the same time the component makeup is similar to the MB. Therefore, the MBA has to be a much more profitable sale for Apple! I would suspect that to be a reason to continue the powerful MBA, and not make it a secondary notebook offering like a netbook.
I suspect a 2.13 GHz CPU, 4 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, better tech battery, glass trackpad, and beautiful display in a rev C MBA would better the MBA brand and would further set the MBA as a premium luxury brand that Apple would prefer sales of in lieu of a MB or MBP.
The iTablet device will be the lower or netbook type offering to be used as a secondary Mac type device. That would be the low end additional sale Apple is looking for with its Macs.
I tried googling for 1.8" 256SSD but nothing comes up. Maybe apple has access to tech that hasn't being announced yet?
Yeah, you're right. Apple never kills off products. It's very non-Apple-like. So did you write your post on your Intel Cube? Or your new Apple Lisa? I was going to write mine on my Apple Newton but I decided to use my good old Macintosh Portable instead. I'm head to E3 tomorrow. I can't wait to see some new Apple Pippin games! Ok, off to watch my Macintosh TV!
As I said before, I don't think they're ending the Air, but Apple could if they wanted to. A company doesn't get $25 Billion in cash reserves by being precious with its business decisions. If doesn't do that well, if the cheapo netbook fad keeps up, if they decide to push a tablet instead, if they decide R&D on a new version isn't worth it... Apple could choose to EOL it.
They could, but the MBA in its current form is the perfect solution for future MBs and MBPs. That form factor is ready and all it would take is the removal of an optical drive to use a similar form factor in the MB or MBP.
I really believe Apple could sell 20 million MBAs this year if they called them the MB and sold them for $1399. Everyone loves the form factor, but not everyone can afford the price. The MBA has to represent a huge margin for profits. It has similar pricing to the MBP, yet it has components of the price/quality of the MB (especially with MB getting better display now).
Apple Lisa?? LOL The fact that you had to use a product from over 20 years ago in your example only proves my point. And Mini eventually replaced Cube as a "small form factor" desktop, so the format itself has lived on.
Anyway, my argument isn't that Apple *cannot* kill the Air, but that they *won't". Regardless of sales numbers, I believe Air design is a strategic form factor for Apple. So the specs and the branding may change, but the base "ultra thin / full function" form factor will live on.
Clearly the point went way over your head. It all started when someone claimed because sales were slow in Italy that there was bound to be an Rev C soon, which was such an absurd leap of logic to me that I pointed out poor slow sales could leads to lots of things-- price cuts, delays in a Rev C, ending the Air. Personally, I don't think they'll end the Air, but they could if cheapo netbooks squeeze the Air to a tiny niche item that's not profitable enough. Again, I don't think that'll happen, but Apple seeks profit, not making everyone in this forum happy. If nothing else, the Air provides a relative luxury item that helps drive regular Macbook sales (example: When Williams-Sonoma introduced bread machines, sales were slow. When they added a "deluxe" version that was 50% more expensive, they started flying off the shelves because the first bread machine now appeared to be a bargain.)
But as to your new post: so the specs and the branding may change but lightweight, full function laptops will still be important? You mean laptops will continue to get lighter and more powerful as time goes on? Tell me more of the future with your mystical powers! Will hard drives continue to get more storage space in a smaller size? Will processors continue to get more powerful? I can't take it-- you're blowing my mind! Lol.
There isn't that much to your "point" to go over anyone's head. You're saying that Apple can end the Air due to slow sales. I am saying they won't. It sounds like you don't really think they will either, so I don't know why you keep pressing on with a rhetorical argument.
"Cheapo netbooks" don't have much to do with slowdown of Air sale numbers. Air isn't competing with netbooks, they are in completely different markets. Air's real competition comes from the likes of Vaio TT-series, Lenovo X301, Dell Adamo, etc. And Air is doing quite well against each of these. It's pretty much an undisputed market leader in "full function thin & light" category, so another reason why Apple won't just pull the plug.
Speaking of 'points going over one's head'.. I wasn't talking about some generic laptops going lighter and more powerful. I am specifically talking about Air's design, as we know it today. I believe that this design is strategic to Apple, and they are not going to "discontinue" it any time soon. In fact, we are likely to see it eventually encroaching into 13" MB, and 15" MBP territory, not the opposite.
Agreed... the MBA's design is the future of Mac notebooks! That is why the design will live on even if the brand name changes. For instance, there is a rumor the current MBA will become the MB. That makes a world of sense. The Pro notebooks can all be with optical drive and dedicated graphics, while the MB can be the current MBA working on maximum portability.
I still see no reason Apple couldn't make a ton of money calling the rev B MBA the MB and selling it for $1399. Then allow lots of BTO upgrades for maximum margin for Apple and make all of us SSD fans happy. Could make one Mac notebook make amazing profits from high end buyers paying $2999 for a fully loaded MB. I could easily see myself doing a bunch of upgrades like SSD, OLED display, 4 GB RAM, and etc.
That type of Mac notebook could serve such a broader spectrum of Mac buyers.
I still don't think we will see an update at WWDC. Although a lot of people seem sure of an update at WWDC.
I still think the update likely comes two weeks after WWDC or in the next two days... but since MB was updated last week, up to two weeks after makes the most sense. Although, maybe I am wrong and Apple will show off new Mac notebooks at WWDC along with 3G cards, OLED displays, better battery tech, and etc etc etc.
I sure would love to see real updates at WWDC as long as they include new features of the same MBA and not a lower powered ULV CPU MBA.
Relax, hitekalex. I was just messing with you.
If you don't understand why I'm pressing the rhetorical argument then you're still missing my point. I think it's silly and fanboyish to make declarative statements like "Apple is NOT going to kill the Air" and "Air isn't competing with netbooks" unless your name is Steve Jobs.
Personally, I do believe cheapo netbooks cut into Air sales somewhat. Just check out the insanely mac hackintosh forums or any engadget/gizmodo post about the Air where people come out of the woodwork to declare how much they love an MSI or Lenovo or Dell Mini with hackintosh on it. Do those people actually constitute lost Air sales or just lost switchers? Or do hackintosh computers actually drive sales once people fall in love with Leopard? Since neither of us work in marketing for Apple Corp, neither of us can really make declarative statements either way. I'm pushing the mindset of considering the whole marketplace (not just netbooks or laptops or ultralight laptops) rather than just looking at it from a Macbook Air standpoint that many in this forum do.
We're at an interesting point in time where lots of form factors are merging. Will optical drives fade away (as Apple thinks) or will blu ray catch on and Apple will be forced to support it (the way firewire support has faded with only USB support remaining)?
I personally think an argument could be made that the iphone could be considered a competitor for the Air. The iphone will get more powerful, could get video chat, has email, internet, apps. You can read documents on it, watch movies. For some people (not me) that may be enough for their "mobile life" if they have a full feature laptop or Imac at home. I definitely need a full sized keyboard but I also like having a landline at home, which seems to be completely different from the trend of people ditching landlines and going cell only. I shouldn't make the mistake of assuming landlines are important to everyone because it's important to me, just as many Air users need to consider that some people still like the safety net of a DVD drive or built-in ethernet, etc, as sales seem to reflect.
If you don't understand why I'm pressing the rhetorical argument then you're still missing my point. I think it's silly and fanboyish to make declarative statements like "Apple is NOT going to kill the Air" and "Air isn't competing with netbooks" unless your name is Steve Jobs.
Personally, I do believe cheapo netbooks cut into Air sales somewhat. Just check out the insanely mac hackintosh forums or any engadget/gizmodo post about the Air where people come out of the woodwork to declare how much they love an MSI or Lenovo or Dell Mini with hackintosh on it. Do those people actually constitute lost Air sales or just lost switchers? Or do hackintosh computers actually drive sales once people fall in love with Leopard? Since neither of us work in marketing for Apple Corp, neither of us can really make declarative statements either way. I'm pushing the mindset of considering the whole marketplace (not just netbooks or laptops or ultralight laptops) rather than just looking at it from a Macbook Air standpoint that many in this forum do.
We're at an interesting point in time where lots of form factors are merging. Will optical drives fade away (as Apple thinks) or will blu ray catch on and Apple will be forced to support it (the way firewire support has faded with only USB support remaining)?
I personally think an argument could be made that the iphone could be considered a competitor for the Air. The iphone will get more powerful, could get video chat, has email, internet, apps. You can read documents on it, watch movies. For some people (not me) that may be enough for their "mobile life" if they have a full feature laptop or Imac at home. I definitely need a full sized keyboard but I also like having a landline at home, which seems to be completely different from the trend of people ditching landlines and going cell only. I shouldn't make the mistake of assuming landlines are important to everyone because it's important to me, just as many Air users need to consider that some people still like the safety net of a DVD drive or built-in ethernet, etc, as sales seem to reflect.
I agree with you on that. One of most common complaints I see on gizmodo/ engadget whenever there's an Air story is "Why would I pay MORE money for LESS computer"? I know you certainly understand its value, Scottdale, but that's the knee jerk reaction from non-Air fans. A price drop below the 2.4 unibody would eliminate that argument...
If you look at the component makeup of the MBA, it's a no brainer. I guess Apple is concerned about the point in the other post above, no optical drive. I think now would be a fine time to just eliminate the optical drive.
I really think Apple could sell the MB like never before, and look at the costs of the MBA... sell 20 million of them this year! Everyone would go crazy for a MB that looks like a current MBA. And Apple would make a fortune selling them at $1399. Like I said though, that could be the base price for the average MB buyer. Then, Apple could upsell like crazy. Think of all of us MBA fans who would load it up with every option available. I don't think Apple's model of selling one Mac to all works as well as this model could with a ton of BTO options.
To me, Apple already has the perfect Mac but it just needs to position/price it better... the current MBA - call it a MacBook if you want, Apple.
@glitch44 - obviously anything being discussed here about what Apple will or won't do - is a speculation (hopefully backed up by some good reasoning). Which is the whole point of MR forum isn't it. If you read this thread in its entirety, the idea of Apple "killing off Air" permeates the whole conversation. And I wanted to point out this is a highly unlikely (while not completely impossible) scenario, for all the reasons I (and Scottsdale) have stated.
I will agree with you there is probably _some_ impact the cheapo netbooks have on MBA. But I will speculate it is not material, one way or another (just like OSX86 probably doesn't put much of a dent on MacPro sales). Your average Joe-The-Consumer isn't going to know where to begin putting OSX on Dell Mini. High-end users like most of us here won't seriously consider hackintoshed Dell Mini as a real alternative to a MacBook. You may also have some people playing around with hackintosh'ed Dell, only to get frustrated and move onto the "real deal", aka MBA.
But if anything, netbooks will continue putting downward price pressure on the entire MacBook line-up.. which is the reason Apple is still keeping sub-$1000 MB I suppose. But regardless, my money is firmly on ultra-thin Air form factor living on
I will agree with you there is probably _some_ impact the cheapo netbooks have on MBA. But I will speculate it is not material, one way or another (just like OSX86 probably doesn't put much of a dent on MacPro sales). Your average Joe-The-Consumer isn't going to know where to begin putting OSX on Dell Mini. High-end users like most of us here won't seriously consider hackintoshed Dell Mini as a real alternative to a MacBook. You may also have some people playing around with hackintosh'ed Dell, only to get frustrated and move onto the "real deal", aka MBA.
But if anything, netbooks will continue putting downward price pressure on the entire MacBook line-up.. which is the reason Apple is still keeping sub-$1000 MB I suppose. But regardless, my money is firmly on ultra-thin Air form factor living on
@glitch44 - obviously anything being discussed here about what Apple will or won't do - is a speculation (hopefully backed up by some good reasoning). Which is the whole point of MR forum isn't it. If you read this thread in its entirety, the idea of Apple "killing off Air" permeates the whole conversation. And I wanted to point out this is a highly unlikely (while not completely impossible) scenario, for all the reasons I (and Scottsdale) have stated.
I will agree with you there is probably _some_ impact the cheapo netbooks have on MBA. But I will speculate it is not material, one way or another (just like OSX86 probably doesn't put much of a dent on MacPro sales). Your average Joe-The-Consumer isn't going to know where to begin putting OSX on Dell Mini. High-end users like most of us here won't seriously consider hackintoshed Dell Mini as a real alternative to a MacBook. You may also have some people playing around with hackintosh'ed Dell, only to get frustrated and move onto the "real deal", aka MBA.
But if anything, netbooks will continue putting downward price pressure on the entire MacBook line-up.. which is the reason Apple is still keeping sub-$1000 MB I suppose. But regardless, my money is firmly on ultra-thin Air form factor living on
I would fear also a change to a thinner and less powerful MBA. A ULV CPU would be devastating for me. As that would take away its ability to be a primary Mac for users like me.
I really have to believe that the MBA will go on as it appears now only with more powerful components being even more capable of being a primary Mac for most users.
But, anything can happen with Apple. I would note that the rumored iTablet should give all of us MBA fans some reassurance that the MBA isn't going anywhere. No iTablet rumors, then we could fear Apple trying to compete with lower priced netbooks.
I don't think netbooks are taking any of the MBA sales away. The MBA is positioned as a primary luxury Mac notebook. It's not a low powered dog, at least not in its rev B form. With the changes in the rev B, it should have given us the indication of what Apple plans to do with it. And we should all expect the current MBA to be the future design of the MB and MBPs.
I resent the notion that extrapolating from local sales trends might represent "insane reasoning". It is definitely not an ideal sample, but on the other hand, it does tie in with anecdotal observations drawn by others elsewhere.
Today's Tuesday... I'll be nigh surprised if a MacBookAir refresh is released today. Next week is WWDC09. I suppose some theories are about get their ultimate test.
And, if as is likely, no refreshes are released by the end of WWDC09? Then the long, amorphous wait resumes. It could be weeks or it could be never. The openendedness infuriates me.
Today's Tuesday... I'll be nigh surprised if a MacBookAir refresh is released today. Next week is WWDC09. I suppose some theories are about get their ultimate test.
And, if as is likely, no refreshes are released by the end of WWDC09? Then the long, amorphous wait resumes. It could be weeks or it could be never. The openendedness infuriates me.
For the record, I did not argue that since sales are slow, a refresh is imminent. I argued that since sales are slow, a refresh is urgently needed. There's a vast chasm between the two.
I shall facilitate matters considerably by offering actual criticism of my argument: Apple may believe that, given the economic situation, even a refreshed Air would not regain sales. This, however, is different from arguing that sales are slow because of the economic downturn an therefore there is no point refreshing the model.
Anyway, here's to the long wait ahead.
I shall facilitate matters considerably by offering actual criticism of my argument: Apple may believe that, given the economic situation, even a refreshed Air would not regain sales. This, however, is different from arguing that sales are slow because of the economic downturn an therefore there is no point refreshing the model.
Anyway, here's to the long wait ahead.