We are still talking about ~15kHz. That is very high and no reason of concern in general. Sorry for the few people who still are affected by this high level of PWM frequency (which is indeed possible, yet rare), but its just one more reason to be lucky they have chosen MiniLED and not OLED, which is like 240Hz on recent Smartphones including the iPhone 12 range.
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MacBook Pro 14” 2021 PWM screen flickering?
- Thread starter ignaciobarrena
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I’ve spent the last 45 minutes editing photos on the 16” m1 max with pro motion off (48hz) and brightness at 50%. I only felt a little eye strain afterwards. Nothing like the burning eyes and car sick-like feelings I have when using the iMac Pro we have at work.
I meant exactly what I said, not the hash you made of it. It isn't that hard to follow.
OK, then thanks for clarifying that you agree with me. Unlikely, meaning it's possible for users to experience negative effects. Cheers.
I'm not sure what you mean with that. Maybe it can apply for your comments? The phrasing you've been using in this thread is pretty much that the PWM frequency of these new monitors is not "suspected to" and is "unlikely to" cause issues. So, what exactly is the troll here? How is that any different that me saying "it's possible that it can cause problems to some users"? Honestly, if anyone is trolling, it's you. You are basically arguing with me while saying the same thing. Unless you are going to outright say "it's absolutely impossible that this frequency of flickering can cause issues to any human", then I see no difference in what you are saying and what I'm saying. I don't understand why you are arguing about it in the first place. It almost seems like you are trying to refute the existence of PWM-sensitive people without actually having a way to prove that statement.
Why don't you do some searching about eye strain and headache from the 27 inch iMac? It flickers at 22.7 kHz.
I see no point continuing this conversation with you. It seems that your point of view is "a few studies say there shouldn't be an issue above 3kHz, therefore, nobody ever will have an issue". Yet the threads of people getting "splitting headaches" from these low-frequency flickering screens are easy to find (you can already find similar threads about the new screens as well). So then they are probably looking at the monitors wrong, right?
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Funny how that model also flickers non-stop, at all brightness levels. It's almost as if non-stop flickering could actually lead to some additional stress on the eyes. Again, this specific model has a notebook check review. And it clearly states the following:
"While this could theoretically cause issues for those who are PWM sensitive, the frequency should be high enough not to affect most people's eyes."
And then you get these threads from a small percentage of people who complain about strain and headache.
To me, it's even funnier that someone can give examples of screens a few years old by now, which actually have better flickering speeds compared to these "legendary, best ever" new screens on the 2021 models.
In my opinion, the response times are also connected to the eye strain. The 2019 MBP 16" has a grey to grey time of 52.4 ms. Do you realize how comically bad that is? It blows my mind that anyone can praise such a slow screen but Apple fans are always praising them.
I've had a 16" Macbook Pro Max for the last week, replacing my 2013 retina Macbook Pro I use all day. Despite really, really wanting to keep it (everything other than the screen I loved), I was getting headaches/aching in my head while using it within an hour, I tried all week, changed settings but nothing, so will be returning it today.
For background, I had to swap my iPhone XS OLED for an iPhone 11 due to PWM, that was much worse in terms of causing bad migraines, however I can't justify keeping a £3,000 laptop that gives (me personally) a semi permanent headache using.
I'm gutted, and will be back to my 2013 Macbook while it still hangs on (my head cleared up straight away switching back) and keep my fingers crossed for screen improvements & consideration for minorities eye/head health from Apple in the future.
For background, I had to swap my iPhone XS OLED for an iPhone 11 due to PWM, that was much worse in terms of causing bad migraines, however I can't justify keeping a £3,000 laptop that gives (me personally) a semi permanent headache using.
I'm gutted, and will be back to my 2013 Macbook while it still hangs on (my head cleared up straight away switching back) and keep my fingers crossed for screen improvements & consideration for minorities eye/head health from Apple in the future.
Man people really as complacent and weak these days. Can't imagine the horror some of these young ones would feel if they had to sit in front of a CRT for 10-20 years like us Gen X gray hair people 
)))
When you come from all those years of CRTs and previous gen LCDs, what we have been given now is just pure heaven.
)))When you come from all those years of CRTs and previous gen LCDs, what we have been given now is just pure heaven.
I had no issues sat infront of a C64 for hours or on old PC monitors all day in the 90s so it's definitely not a generational thing!Man people really as complacent and weak these days. Can't imagine the horror some of these young ones would feel if they had to sit in front of a CRT for 10-20 years like us Gen X gray hair people
When you come from all those years of CRTs and previous gen LCDs, what we have been given now is just pure heaven.
I wonder if the M1 MacBook Air would work for you. The PWM frequency is supposed to be over 100kHz and the performance and battery life is significantly better than the 2013 version.
The effect of PWM is very different from one person to another. The relatively high frequency and the lack of people affected (by low number of posts/threads) is a good sign though. But again, the only way to know if you're going to be affected by this MacBooks Pro is to buy one and test them for a week.
This issue is much more prominent with OLED iPhones.
This issue is much more prominent with OLED iPhones.
A quick search on here will also unearth many many people (myself included) having issues with FRC or 'Dithering' that appears to have been introduced with Mac OS around 2018 (ish). PWM isn't the end of the story.
A person is weak if they are affected by PWM due to being sensitive to it? Because you had to suffer in the dinosaur ages, there should be no advancement and improvement in technology and usability?Man people really as complacent and weak these days. Can't imagine the horror some of these young ones would feel if they had to sit in front of a CRT for 10-20 years like us Gen X gray hair people
When you come from all those years of CRTs and previous gen LCDs, what we have been given now is just pure heaven.
The old generations are so funny. You're supposed to wish better on your children, not talk down to them because they expect a better life than yours. It's shameful and pathetic, your way of thinking, honestly.
Also, my first monitor was CRT and I spent years with it. You are really not that special. Get with times, old man.
Yeah there seems to be a group of people who get eye strain starting with the support of HDR. I don't get why they don't just use real 10 bit displays. Especially for such high end laptops and devices. They are using 8 bit + FRC to achieve the increased colors and it does bother some people. They are using a lot of tricks these days in displays, it's not great.
Here you can see the screen recorded at 240fps in all levels of brightness. Near 0 brightness there are some weird banding going from left to right, is this PWM?
Go and film a CRT and get back to me. We lived with them for decades.
I've noticed no problems with my MacBook.
I lived with crts as well, with no problems, so what? Pwm is like hell on my eyes…
This seems to have an effect for sure.
So I have my 14" hooked up to my LG 38WN95C-W and I set the LG screen to 120hz and the LG screen has started giving me dry and bloodshot eyes which is ridiculous because I use this LG screen all day every day for work hooked up to my Dell laptop and I have no issues.
But now I've set both the MacBook and LG 38WN95C-W to 60hz and I feel less strain.
This is my last resort before I end up returning it but hopefully this is the solution for me. I love this laptop and don't want to return it if I can help it somehow. Promotion isn't important to me.
I noticed something today when using the 13 inch M1 MBP and the 14 inch M1 Pro MBP side by side. At least subjectively the 13 inch doesn’t have jerky scrolling at all, even though it’s 60hz. The 14 is smooth with promotion enabled, but it is noticeably jerky with it disabled (supposedly 60hz). Doesn’t really make much sense to me.