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MacBook Pro 14” 2021 PWM screen flickering?
- Thread starter ignaciobarrena
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I noticed the jerky scrolling after turning off promotion. But if you relaunch the app that's jerky it goes away and behaves like the 13" MBP.
Any updates on the eye strain issue of the MacBook Pro 14" 2021?
I have a Dell XPS 15" laptop myself, sitting on the fence to see whether people approve the new Mac for sensitive eyes or not. The Dell XPS I am currently using caused eye strain in the beginning as well, but after I got blue light blocking glasses, it more or less disappeared.
Worth mentioning, I sit 8-10 hours in front of the screen every day, most days several hours in a row without pauses.. Grew up with CRT-screens in the 90's, and have gradually become more and more sensitive to the effects of excessive screen time.
Looking forward to hearing your experience regarding the new MacBook Pro.
I have a Dell XPS 15" laptop myself, sitting on the fence to see whether people approve the new Mac for sensitive eyes or not. The Dell XPS I am currently using caused eye strain in the beginning as well, but after I got blue light blocking glasses, it more or less disappeared.
Worth mentioning, I sit 8-10 hours in front of the screen every day, most days several hours in a row without pauses.. Grew up with CRT-screens in the 90's, and have gradually become more and more sensitive to the effects of excessive screen time.
Looking forward to hearing your experience regarding the new MacBook Pro.
I purchased the 16" and returned it after 2 weeks because of the screen. It gave me terrible headaches and eye strain. I don't have a problem with my M1 MacBook Pro 13 inch or LG 5K monitor at any brightness.
In my case, according to the battery usage history, the screen is on on average around ≥ 12 hours a day, and I had no issues with the screen so far in over a week of testing in all possible conditions.
On average I set the brightness to around 60%, but I have used it continuously for hours with both maximum and minimum brightness, in both bright and dark environments, with and without True Tone and Night Shift. I too grew up with CRT screens (I used to use anti-radiation filters).
Other people don't have the same experience as me though. So unfortunately there's no substitute for testing, at least a few minutes in the store. I saw the XPS 15" in the store and I could immediately tell that I wouldn't like it, especially since it was sitting next to the LG Gram which was perfect. I also tested the new MacBook Pro in the store and it seemed fine.
Hello - I think I may be experiencing similar discomfort with this new, flickering mini-LED display. It's certainly no where near as bad as PWM on something like an iPhone X->, but it does cause some eye discomfort.
I'm curious, does anyone know which settings are best for people who suffer from eye discomfort via flickering? I have played around with various display configurations, reducing the display from "Apple XDR Display -1600nits" to "Apple Display - 500nits", I've also played with switching between 60Hz and the "Pro Motion" option but haven't been able to really notice much of a difference.
On previous Apple displays, sometimes turning the brightness all the way up allowed for 0 flicker, I understand this display has flicker at all brightness settings but does anyone configuration have a far less reduced amount? I mainly use the laptop docked to a larger display anyway, but it would be nice to know which settings are easiest on the eyes...
I'm curious, does anyone know which settings are best for people who suffer from eye discomfort via flickering? I have played around with various display configurations, reducing the display from "Apple XDR Display -1600nits" to "Apple Display - 500nits", I've also played with switching between 60Hz and the "Pro Motion" option but haven't been able to really notice much of a difference.
On previous Apple displays, sometimes turning the brightness all the way up allowed for 0 flicker, I understand this display has flicker at all brightness settings but does anyone configuration have a far less reduced amount? I mainly use the laptop docked to a larger display anyway, but it would be nice to know which settings are easiest on the eyes...
Not likely PWM is the issue for you, as it's at a very high frequency. (There's also dithering and stuff, though.)
Oh I apologize, I've been using the laptop's display this entire time, which has me thinking its the PWM as I'm pretty sensitive to screen flickering. Haven't got my external setup yet until I decide if its worth keeping.
Not sure about dithering, I haven't really had any problems with MacOS or iOS on other devices (last gen MBP, iPhone SE), but all OLED panels tend to hurt my eyes after about 20 minutes.
Not sure about dithering, I haven't really had any problems with MacOS or iOS on other devices (last gen MBP, iPhone SE), but all OLED panels tend to hurt my eyes after about 20 minutes.
I was thinking about upgrading my 2016 MacBook Pro to the 2021 version. Not happening now, thanks to the low PWM frequency. What a shame. It is disgusting to see all of the uneducated comments in this thread, by the way.
I have absolutely no respect for product engineers who settle on using PWM for brightness control. Shameful.
The Apple Studio Display does not use PWM, and neither does the LG UltraFine 5K monitor.
I have absolutely no respect for product engineers who settle on using PWM for brightness control. Shameful.
The Apple Studio Display does not use PWM, and neither does the LG UltraFine 5K monitor.
Indeed, I really hoped Apple would care more about people who have unavoidable problems with PWM and are stuck on very old MacBook Pro models or are forced to move to a different manufacturer. Just having an LCD option when configuring, I'd happily pay more.
The PWM frequency is very high, almost 15000Hz, way above what's suspected to cause trouble for some.
The 2021 Macbook Pro definitely caused a problem for me (constant mild headache) although noticeably less than I got from iPhone XS (severe migraines before switching to 11), I also really didn't want to have to return it as my MacBook Pro 2013 is ageing and aside from the screen it seemed great, but it wasn't something I could use for an entire day. I'd hoped not because the PWM frequency is much higher and hopefully isn't an issue for other people, but it was a real issue for me.
While the PWM frequency they're using should be too fast to detect any flickering, I noticed recently that if I look at a dark purple background, something like the color #573B88, I can clearly see the flickering with my eyes. This is interesting, I've never actually seen PWM flicker before on other PWM displays.
Very interestingly though, I'm not bothered by it. I mean, I can see it and it can get a bit distracting, but usually when I look at a PWM display for more than 10 seconds, I feel like my eyes are about to pop out of their sockets and I start getting headaches. Not on this display though. I've been using it almost daily for more than 12 hours each day, without any negative effects.
I wonder if anyone else can see the PWM flicker if they look at large area filled with the color #573B88.
Very interestingly though, I'm not bothered by it. I mean, I can see it and it can get a bit distracting, but usually when I look at a PWM display for more than 10 seconds, I feel like my eyes are about to pop out of their sockets and I start getting headaches. Not on this display though. I've been using it almost daily for more than 12 hours each day, without any negative effects.
I wonder if anyone else can see the PWM flicker if they look at large area filled with the color #573B88.
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Unlikely it's PWM, which is certainly too fast to see consciously. There are other things going on that might cause trouble, such as temporal dithering. As far as I know, there's no way to disable that kind of stuff, though I'm not sure how much people have tried with Monterey.
This question is not relevant. PWM affects people in all lighting conditions.
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This thread actually saved me a lot of money today. I was going to purchase a 14-inch MacBook Pro, upgraded, but I went with the base model MacBook Air instead. While there, technically, is PWM, it's like 114,000 Hz. Still not ideal, but for my own situation it doesn't affect me at that frequency.
A bit like your post about how much money you saved today?
absolutely comical.
Indeed, the light source doesn't seem to make any difference. I have the same issues with natural light, artificial light, or no light at all.
Yeah, i have mb pro 16 2019 with owm
As well, but 10xtimea higher freq than tje newest one and I am fine, m1 mb roo gave me headaches?♂️
Human eyes really should not be able see 14000hz flicker, so since quite a lot of folks seem to be reporting genuine experiences, that means the pwm rate is not really 14000 hz, somehow.
Maybe the new display technology has multiple pwm rates? A 14000 hz flicker plus maybe a 1400 hz flicker, plus maybe a 140 hz flicker? And they confuse normal benchmarking setups so that only one rate is reported?
We can resolve this if someone with one of those 1000 fps slow mo cameras take a video of the screen. Even some high end smartphones can do that.
Maybe the new display technology has multiple pwm rates? A 14000 hz flicker plus maybe a 1400 hz flicker, plus maybe a 140 hz flicker? And they confuse normal benchmarking setups so that only one rate is reported?
We can resolve this if someone with one of those 1000 fps slow mo cameras take a video of the screen. Even some high end smartphones can do that.
I think it's also possible that what we're seeing is not PWM.
I just recently took a look at a screen full of #573B88 on a known-good MacBook Pro Retina 13" 2013 and I also noticed a bit of what looks like flickering there too. It's less than on the new MacBook Pro, but I can still see it. And neither the 2013 nor the 2021 MacBook Pros have had any bad effect on my eyes so far.
Others on this thread offered different, non-PWM explanations for what might be happening.
I already own a device with pro motion: the iPad Pro 2018.
I'm quite sensitive to PWM but the iPad Pro 2018 doesn't give me any headaches at all. I can easily use it as an e-reader. My iPhone 12 is a totally different story though... How does the new Macbook Pro 16-inch compare?
I'm quite sensitive to PWM but the iPad Pro 2018 doesn't give me any headaches at all. I can easily use it as an e-reader. My iPhone 12 is a totally different story though...
How does the new Macbook Pro 16-inch compare?