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Was your MBP 2016+ affected by flexgate yet?

  • Yes

    Votes: 221 49.1%
  • No

    Votes: 229 50.9%

  • Total voters
    450

pmorales

macrumors member
Mar 17, 2019
32
4
Spain
Sorry, I do not agree. I don’t want to disassemble the screen because it is simply unnecessary.
I think we just need more pictures of the cables that broke and the kind of curvature they had at maximum stress.
The issue is due to a insufficient radius of curvature, if we can see the radius of curvature has changed (we need more proofs of machines of various manufacturing dates, so please help), there is no point in measuring the cable, which is impractical for the average user.
Ifixit measured the cable because they saw a much better curvature, hence they wanted to check if the cable was different, but the cable doesn’t fail because it is short, it fails due to flexural stress with an insufficient curvature.
I don’t think the flexural stress is the cause of the failure in this situation. A cable doesn’t have enough rigidity to resist flexional stress. Cables only work under tensile stress.
I think the source of the problem is the fatigue of the flex cable. A longer cable would work under less tensile stress increasing its lifespan
 

matteoz92

macrumors newbie
Mar 23, 2019
11
9
I don’t think the flexural stress is the cause of the failure in this situation. A cable doesn’t have enough rigidity to resist flexional stress. Cables only work under tensile stress.
I think the source of the problem is the fatigue of the flex cable. A longer cable would work under less tensile stress increasing its lifespan

Yes, fatigue is the issue, but if it was caused by tensile stress, there is no reason why the cracks would always appear at the point of minimum curvature and not at the connectors (weakest section) or everywhere randomly, hence my assumption of flexural fatigue.

Try to imagine you pulling a rope against a friend: there is only tensile stress, sooner or later you or your friend just lose grip on the rope, because it is the weakest connection point. In the Macbook the connector is a “clip-on” type. If tensile stress was the problem, the cable would just slip out of the socket slowly with time. If the connector wasn’t the weakest point, the cable would break at a random point, not always the same for every Mac.

An idealized cable only has tensile stress, but as thin as it can be, a real cable still has a third dimension (thickness), so it is more correct to apply beam theory to understand the issue. Real cables can and do sustain flexural stress, otherwise you would feel zero reaction when you push one of them perpendicularly.
Actually this is the very reason “flex cables” are made as thin as possibile: to minimize the stresses induced by the bending (beam theory here again). But these stresses become zero only for zero thickness, which is impossibile.

P.s. The flex cable doesn’t have to resist bending, it should oppose the least resistance. If it had enough rigidity to resist bending, it simply wouldn’t do its job.
 
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pmorales

macrumors member
Mar 17, 2019
32
4
Spain
Yes, fatigue is the issue, but if it was caused by tensile stress, there is no reason why the cracks would always appear at the point of minimum curvature and not at the connectors (weakest section) or everywhere randomly, hence my assumption of flexural fatigue.

Try to imagine you pulling a rope against a friend: there is only tensile stress, sooner or later you or your friend just lose grip on the rope, because it is the weakest connection point. In the Macbook the connector is a “clip-on” type. If tensile stress was the problem, the cable would just slip out of the socket slowly with time. If the connector wasn’t the weakest point, the cable would break at a random point, not always the same for every Mac.

An idealized cable only has tensile stress, but as thin as it can be, a real cable still has a third dimension (thickness), so it is more correct to apply beam theory to understand the issue. Real cables can and do sustain flexural stress, otherwise you would feel zero reaction when you push one of them perpendicularly.
Actually this is the very reason “flex cables” are made as thin as possibile: to minimize the stresses induced by the bending (beam theory here again). But these stresses become zero only for zero thickness, which is impossibile.

P.s. The flex cable doesn’t have to resist bending, it should oppose the least resistance. If it had enough rigidity to resist bending, it simply wouldn’t do its job.
I don’t agree with you in this matter (the source of the failure, I agree with you about beam theory) but my English isn’t good enough to have a fair discussion about this topic. As a civil engineer I have a decent knowledge about how materials work.
Regarding the flex gate, I’ll try to get the tools and take a pic of the flex cable inside my laptop.
 
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matteoz92

macrumors newbie
Mar 23, 2019
11
9
Is your machine a 2016 one? Those should almost certainly have the shorter cable which have little room to do the "U" curvature. Take into consideration that the "U" folding of the cable is not stationary, it moves along the cable length when opening and closing the lid.
I do not doubt your knowledge, sorry if it sounded so, I am just offering my point of view (we're somehow colleagues: aerospace engineer here) after seeing how my flex cable works and comparing it to the iFixit video. From what I see in that video (
), the cable experiences negligible tension because the U-fold never touches anything rigid and always has some room at the center of the fold, however it has to form a very small radius of curvature with the short cable.
Maybe we are saying the same thing in different ways (tensions due to bending?).

Anyway...
I have been to an Apple Store and I asked them about the flexgate: one "Genius" said it happens almost only on the 2016 model, particularly on the 13". I asked another Genius (another day) and he just denied the issue even existed. he even started questioning me about what my source was and said "if it's not on the Apple website, it is not a real issue". Yea, sure... -.-
 

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sokzzuka

macrumors member
Feb 24, 2019
49
17
hahaha Geniuses are not that Genius after all. Following their logic, if Apple delete a whole thread on their forums, there's no issue...simple as that. Oh well.

I also would like to know if q3/q4 MacBook Pro 2017 are designed with longer flex cable, if so - this probably would prevent issue from happening on those machines. Anyway, far too many problems with new MacBooks. And for what? 2mm thinner chassis? Like who cares about that...really
 
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matteoz92

macrumors newbie
Mar 23, 2019
11
9
hahaha Geniuses are not that Genius after all. Following their logic, if Apple delete a whole thread on their forums, there's no issue...simple as that. Oh well.

I also would like to know if q3/q4 MacBook Pro 2017 are designed with longer flex cable, if so - this probably would prevent issue form happening on those machines. Anyway, far too many problems with new MacBooks. And for what? 2mm thinner chassis? Like who care about that...really

Yea, the thickness of the Retina lineup was already fine. If they used the space gained with the shallower keyboard and thinner display to put replaceable DDR4 RAM modules, they would have sold tons of MBPs at this point.
These machines get old too fast without upgradeability, especially now that AMD is back and Intel has been forced to innovate.
 
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fabwa

macrumors newbie
Mar 28, 2019
3
0
Any news on the petition front? Unfortunately it was my turn.. this is not what i expet from a $2000 laptop :(

Hek2cl1.jpg


FX5Bo9j.jpg
 

Garage Battle

macrumors regular
Aug 31, 2007
182
172
Orlando, FL
Any news on the petition front? Unfortunately it was my turn.. this is not what i expet from a $2000 laptop :(

Hek2cl1.jpg


FX5Bo9j.jpg
Does it change with you opening the lid? That almost looks driver or OS related.
[doublepost=1553795472][/doublepost]Pasting this from another forum:

The next step in raising Flexgate awareness will be to contact Joanna Stern of the WSJ. Her email: joanna.stern@wsj.com

What should you say? If you’ve been directly impacted by Flexgate then tell your story. How/when it happened, how you were using the laptop leading up to it, and what experience you’ve received from Apple on resolving it. MOST IMPORTANTLY include pics and video.

For all of us: include links to the ifixit video, macrumors forum posts discussing Flexgate, and the link to the Flexgate and petition site. ALSO IMPORTANT talk about the worries with your laptop that you now have. After learning that opening it further than 90deg - how it’s changing your usage and experience. Also mention any other MBP issues you’ve been having such as keyboard problems, speaker, screen coating, etc.

Expanded thoughts: I think it’s worth chastising Apple for outwardly being so eco/recycle friendly but ultimately creating more waste due to faulty components that require major portions of the laptop to be replaced due to poor servicability and engineering.

Why do this? Beyond getting Apple to admit the issue and offer a warranty - it’s the only way to push Apple to build the computers that they need to be building. They will budge if pushed hard enough - they usually do.
 
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Queen6

macrumors G4
https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/19/18271733/flexgate-display-problem-macbook-pro-apple

Getting attention on The Verge. Great!

No response from Apple despite multiple attempts to publicly comment - NOT great

The last paragraph, also not great:
"I don’t blame Apple for Flexgate. Design problems can and do arise. But the company ought to live up to its own aspirations by acknowledging the issue and treating its customers fairly."

...If Apple is not to blame, who is? The end user? Samsung? Microsoft? Give me a break

Apple's got the money and that's all that counts, well as far as they are concerned that is...

Q-6
 
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Garage Battle

macrumors regular
Aug 31, 2007
182
172
Orlando, FL
I bought it in Oct. 2017.. Not that i am aware of..



Any hint how i can verify/test that? i was not doing any driver experiments afaik...

as you open the lid - does the issue change? does it seem to vary based on how far open you have the screen?

I also realized your photo is sideways for some reason - yeah it seems like a stagelight / fluxgate issue - can you try taking good photos instead of up close sideways pink photos?
 

Plutonius

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2003
9,223
8,879
New Hampshire, USA
All I can suggest is open it up and find out. There's really a dearth of information regarding this issue, it may or may not effect the 2017 model year. The little information that is out there, seems to suggest that the 2017 model year is in the same boat as 2016. In the end, what we need is hard evidence and I don't we have that yet.

I wouldn't recommend opening it up unless the person knows what they are doing.

In any case, knowing will not make the problem less prevalent (i.e. even if you know, there isn't anything you can do about it).
 
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powertoold

macrumors 6502
Sep 8, 2014
374
450
Omggggg flexgate has affected my MacBook 15" 2016 today!!! Out of the blue, if I open the screen fully it gets all messed up but if I open it halfway it's still kind of works
 
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Ehpehp

macrumors newbie
Oct 23, 2013
14
0
Some Apple stores are offering to repair flexgate afflicted Macbook Pros not covered by Applecare.

My experience: I brought mine to the genius bar. At first I was told the repair would cost $475. I asked to speak to a manager and politely recounted the iFixit stories on this issue. I said I'd pay for the repair if necessary; but, was disappointed that my high cost laptop was unusable two years after purchase due to a design flaw. And the design flaw was impacting many users like me through no fault of their own. The manager said they would cover the repair.
My model: Macbook Pro 2016 13" with touchbar. Backlight shutoff at about a 70 degree angle.

Another experience:
https://twitter.com/brunolemos/status/1109206608205238277
 

mrex

macrumors 68040
Jul 16, 2014
3,458
1,527
europe
Some Apple stores are offering to repair flexgate afflicted Macbook Pros not covered by Applecare.

so some people get it for free - some people dont? where is the equality among customers? do cute, blond women get it for free and fat ugly men need to pay?

what is the logic here? if some one gets it for free, then everyone should get it too.
 

Jottle

macrumors 6502
Oct 17, 2003
402
5
I've seen the pictures of the shorter cable, but I'm wondering if there's the possibility of fixing this issue on the motherboard connector end instead of replacing the display? For example, is there enough clearance at the point where the display ribbon cable connects to the mobo such that an extender that slightly lengthens the connector could be added? It would be something like an addition 2-3mm female to female connector or something. I'm not saying this will be a fix that anyone comes up with, but if Apple ever does acknowledge this obvious design defect, they could extend the cable that way instead of replacing entire displays. I hate the display lottery game....
 

lqflqf

macrumors newbie
Apr 4, 2019
1
0
Some Apple stores are offering to repair flexgate afflicted Macbook Pros not covered by Applecare.

My experience: I brought mine to the genius bar. At first I was told the repair would cost $475. I asked to speak to a manager and politely recounted the iFixit stories on this issue. I said I'd pay for the repair if necessary; but, was disappointed that my high cost laptop was unusable two years after purchase due to a design flaw. And the design flaw was impacting many users like me through no fault of their own. The manager said they would cover the repair.
My model: Macbook Pro 2016 13" with touchbar. Backlight shutoff at about a 70 degree angle.

Another experience:
https://twitter.com/brunolemos/status/1109206608205238277


Good to hear that your device fixed. Is it possible for you to share the case number from Apple?

I am thinking about going to Apple store again and asking them to refer to your case and then fix mine for free.
 

matteoz92

macrumors newbie
Mar 23, 2019
11
9
I had the chance to open up a 15" 2017 manufactured in October '17 (info from its serial) and I noticed a shorter cable than my same unit manufactured in March 2018.
IMG_3835.jpg
IMG_3655.jpg
 

Painter2002

macrumors 65816
May 9, 2017
1,197
943
Austin, TX
I had the chance to open up a 15" 2017 manufactured in October '17 (info from its serial) and I noticed a shorter cable than my same unit manufactured in March 2018.
View attachment 830343 View attachment 830344
Just curious, how do you determine the manufactured date from the serial number? I purchased my 2017 MBP refurbished in March 2018, and I am curious to find out the actual month it was made to see if it possibly has a longer cable.
 

matteoz92

macrumors newbie
Mar 23, 2019
11
9
Just curious, how do you determine the manufactured date from the serial number? I purchased my 2017 MBP refurbished in March 2018, and I am curious to find out the actual month it was made to see if it possibly has a longer cable.

Use everymac.com serial number info section or similar services on the web. Another good one is Chipmunk (in Dutch language)
 

DCIFRTHS

macrumors 65816
Jan 25, 2008
1,306
655
I had the chance to open up a 15" 2017 manufactured in October '17 (info from its serial) and I noticed a shorter cable than my same unit manufactured in March 2018.
View attachment 830343 View attachment 830344

Nice post.
I wonder when they started using the longer cable. More specifically, I'm curious what year and month they started using it? I guess there's no way to find out for sure.
 
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powertoold

macrumors 6502
Sep 8, 2014
374
450
As an update, I got my display replaced for free. Rather than addressing the problem directly, my genius says they'll replace my display for free using their "Quality Assurance" program for my deteriorating anti-reflective coating. YMMV
 
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