Macbook Pro M1 disappointment.. Is it really fast ?!?

[AAPLGeek]

I just tested my 2018 i9 MacBook Pro. After a cold fresh start, safari took 3 bounces to open, spark took 8, all other Mac native apps took 1, pages took 5, number took 5, WhatsApp took 3.

It’s beyond ridiculous that a i9 equipped MacBook Pro takes 3 bounces to launch Safari when my 2012 cMBP with a bog standard SATA SSD takes just one. Apple’s software quality has taken a massive nosedive over the years and they only care about optimizations on the most recent hardware.

 

[leman]

I think Apple's filesystem APFS is not that good with handling files, so there I think comes the problem with slower app launch.

APFS is optimized for file access latency, not throughput. It is entirely possible that you will get higher read/write numbers while benchmarking other file systems, but these numbers have little practical relevance. I doubt that you main use of filesystem consists of copying very large sequential files (and even it were, APFS has you covered via it's fast cloning).

Anyway, application loading is exactly what APFS is optimized for, so I doubt that this is your bottleneck. There is likely something else that is causing your slowdowns. Note that application launching on macOS is much more complex than on some other systems, as it includes more security checks. Linux people for example like to make fun of how slow macOS file operations are, but they completely ignore the fact that macOS has always-on filesystem notifications, certificate-based cryptographic checks, software sandboxing etc...

 

[Clausewitz]

Just tested on M1 Mac Mini:

Outlook - 9 bounces
Word - 9 bounces
OneNote - 8 bounces

For comparison:

Pages - 5 bounces
Numbers - 5 bounces
Mail - 1 bounce

I get more or less 6 bounces for Word whether running on Rosetta or natively.

 

[jerryk]

Unless you use a lot of different apps none will have to be reloaded. I use Office 365 every day (Outlook, Word, and PowerPoint mostly) and they all open almost instantly. I usually don't quit the apps, there really is no need to do this and if you do and then relaunch them you are working against the OS. I treat the M1 Air like my iPad Pro and just switch between apps. My system is a MB Air, 8GB, 256 GB drive.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

My M1 MBA 8GB of RAM is RIDICULOUSLY faster than my 2015 i7 16GB Macbook Pro 15". It isn't even close.

 

[xraydoc]

First launch of Word after a fresh boot is about 6 bounces for my on my MBA.
Subsequent launches of Word are like 1.5 bounces.

I almost never shutdown/reboot unless it's required for a software install or update. The M1 is probably one of the snappiest Macs I've ever used. It runs circles around my wife's quad-core i7 15" MBP in every way measurable.

However, understand the M1 is Apple's entry-level ARM SOC. If this is how fast the entry level is, imagine how fast the top of the line will be.

 

[Chozes]

There is also the 16GB vs 8GB issue. For me this made the difference.

Having said that more powerful M CPU are on the way.

 

[thadoggfather]

It's not the same product, but I upgraded from i5 2020 Air to M1 (late) 2020 Air - and it's been a quantum leap!

The P3 screen, battery life, performance, thermals, fan less.

It's also unit to unit variation but I got a keyboard that is punchier for me than the i5 one, but I wouldn't chalk that up to anymore than luck and my perception of the feeling of the difference.


Also reverted from space grey to silver and happy with that choice too. I was much happier with my silver 13" Pro 2016 than the year I had my space grey 12"

same case here but ymmv

 

[eicca]

Weird. There are very few apps on my ancient Mac Pro that don't open in more than two bounces, and those are big suckers like games or poorly-written apps like Finale. iWork apps all open in 2 bounces tops. Most built-in Apple apps open immediately. This is on a much MUCH slower SATA SSD (amazing it's considered slow now) with a lowly 3.4GHz Xeon with a very mediocre single-thread benchmark.

The M1 Air I tried at the local Apple retailer seemed to open everything immediately when I did the click-every-icon-at-once test.

Maybe there's something gone funky with your machine?

 

[reasonrulaz]

Weird. There are very few apps on my ancient Mac Pro that don't open in more than two bounces, and those are big suckers like games or poorly-written apps like Finale. iWork apps all open in 2 bounces tops. Most built-in Apple apps open immediately. This is on a much MUCH slower SATA SSD (amazing it's considered slow now) with a lowly 3.4GHz Xeon with a very mediocre single-thread benchmark.

The M1 Air I tried at the local Apple retailer seemed to open everything immediately when I did the click-every-icon-at-once test.

Maybe there's something gone funky with your machine?

Macbook M1 series app launch time is not coherent with all that CPU power and enormous transfer speeds, otherwise it's fantastic device.

My SATA-M2 SSD windows device (Intel NUC 8 Series) open every same app faster than my MBP M1, also boot up system faster.

I'm almost sure all of M1 devices like mine, because at least 3 of them belong to my relatives.

Also, when you tried sample M1 devices at retailers, of course most of installed apps cached to memory already because of customers..

 

[dmccloud]

I have MBP Pro M1 8G, 512 for two months. Before that, I used a lot of different types of macbooks.

I want to talk about my experiences about M1 MBP performance for "daily work" for most people, because I think there is some misinformation in many channels on this subject.

Is that machine (M1) really that fast ? Instantly, blazing fast, incredible speed ?!? Definitely NO !!!

Let me explain.

M1 SOC power is real. But please consider another reality, Macbook M1 series not just that. When CPU power is only become most important thing your entire work day ? How many times you wait rendering or compiling process in daily routine ? Of course there is some professional who’s demanding as much as possible cpu power but how many of us are they ?

I think most of users daily computing routine consist of office apps, coding, drawing etc. Macbook M1 major disappointment for me is app launching time (I'm talking about "cold start - first launch" of course). When you click any apps icon on bottom bar, waiting is intolerable. Major apps not start until at least 5-6 bouncing. Sometimes,even bouncing not start instantly. Even iwork apps like keynote or pages not start instantly (4 bounces). For example, i need alternative browser, click to start edge, waiting 7 bounces for cold start, after that, need pdf editing, click pdf editor, wait 8 bounces for cold start (foxit), fastest browser alternative brave need 7 bounces for cold start. Instantly starting apps is JUST safari. If you count apps add notes, calendar to that list.

So, when in my rush hour at computing work daily routine, Macbook M1 series is NOT snappy, instantly or ligtning fast..

Maybe hypes after launching M1 macs cause this but reality is (IMHO) Macbook M1 series is really good for battery life (low power consumption, cool running) and cpu demanding tasks. Apart from that, there is no other performance difference with the old mac series. Even considering what you have lost (x86 compability), you wonder if it is worth the innovations.

Apple, thanks for the M1, but there is a lot more to do for the iPad-like Macbook experience. (which is expectation created by most of reviewers for Macbook m1 series)

I am very curious about your experiences in this matter.

How many of the apps you use on a regular basis have been optimized for the M1? If they're running via Rosetta 2, thay can easily take longer to launch. If you look at a lot of the head to head comparisons in real world usage scanarios (Max Tech is a good YouTube channel for this), the M1 is significantly faster than the Intel-based MBA, MBP, and Mac Mini they replaced, and in some cases even outperforms the 16" MBP in the same scenarios. The performance differences are there, and they are very real.

 

[butcherbird]

I have MBP Pro M1 8G, 512

Is that 8 GB of RAM? Isn’t 16 GB considered a bare minimum for any business user (someone who uses more than a web browser)?

 

[Maconplasma]

It’s beyond ridiculous that a i9 equipped MacBook Pro takes 3 bounces to launch Safari when my 2012 cMBP with a bog standard SATA SSD takes just one. Apple’s software quality has taken a massive nosedive over the years and they only care about optimizations on the most recent hardware.

No no no, that's not common. I have an i9 16" MBP. I just did a cold boot and Safari launched with 1 bounce.

 

[Feek]

VLC player is a fully native M1 app (I just confirmed this with Go64), I had it open earlier today but I just opened it again and it bounced twelve times in the dock of my 8/8/16 M1 MBA.
Twelve.
I closed it and reopened it and it opened in less than a single bounce.
Why should that take twelve bounces to open?

 

[Krevnik]

VLC player is a fully native M1 app (I just confirmed this with Go64), I had it open earlier today but I just opened it again and it bounced twelve times in the dock of my 8/8/16 M1 MBA.
Twelve.
I closed it and reopened it and it opened in less than a single bounce.
Why should that take twelve bounces to open?

One thing I will point out is that the “bouncing“ of an app doesn’t stop until the app has booted and a particular call “[NSApplicationDelegate applicationDidLaunch:]” has finished executing.

If an app is executing a bunch of code during applicationDidLaunch (or earlier), and then gets hung up waiting for something, the bouncing will continue. So the reason why an app bounces in the dock will differ between apps, because the app itself is partly responsible for the time it takes for the bouncing/boot to complete.

EDIT: I’ll add that Apple tells developers not to do heavy work early on in app boot because of things like this.

 

[leman]

Why should that take twelve bounces to open?

Probably certificate validation or something else safety-related. Happens occasionally, Apple already promised to improve the user experience in the future.

 

[Feek]

If an app is executing a bunch of code during applicationDidLaunch (or earlier), and then gets hung up waiting for something, the bouncing will continue.

It doesn't really matter why it's bouncing, the end effect is the same. It's not usable until it's finished the bounce.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my new MBA but I do sometimes wonder what's going on there.

 

[crevalic]

My M1 MBA 8GB of RAM is RIDICULOUSLY faster than my 2015 i7 16GB Macbook Pro 15". It isn't even close.

I mean, it's 6 years newer and a fresh install always helps...
This is almost the same amount of time as it passed between the introduction of first unibody MBPs in 2008 and your 2015 MBP. Would you be surprised then, that a laptop from mid 2010s was faster than one from the end of 2000s?

I'd say most people really going crazy about how fast M1 is switched from 5-8y old Macs or cheap windows laptops, often still with HDD, and don't see that much if the improved experience isn't driven by the raw M1 processing power but other technological advances. Battery life and reduced heat output are nice, though.

 

[dmccloud]

Is that 8 GB of RAM? Isn’t 16 GB considered a bare minimum for any business user (someone who uses more than a web browser)?

No. the vast majority of business users may not even have 8GB of RAM on their company-provided workstations. With so many in-house apps being accessed via a web browser or thin client on the machine (such as most CRM software), the client machines don't need nearly as much RAM as the machine for someone doing a lot of graphic design, code compilation, or audio/video production. With the way the M1-based Macs handle both RAM and swap, even 8GB is enough to run the vast majority of typical workloads.

 

[dmccloud]

It doesn't really matter why it's bouncing, the end effect is the same. It's not usable until it's finished the bounce.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my new MBA but I do sometimes wonder what's going on there.

If the app is bouncing that much, it is much more likely that the developers have coded the app in such as manner as to cause that despite Apple's guidelines to not go in that direction. It's not an issue with the M1, it's an issue with how developers organized and structured the code in their app.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I mean, it's 6 years newer and a fresh install always helps...
This is almost the same amount of time as it passed between the introduction of first unibody MBPs in 2008 and your 2015 MBP. Would you be surprised then, that a laptop from mid 2010s was faster than one from the end of 2000s?

I'd say most people really going crazy about how fast M1 is switched from 5-8y old Macs or cheap windows laptops, often still with HDD, and don't see that much if the improved experience isn't driven by the raw M1 processing power but other technological advances. Battery life and reduced heat output are nice, though.

Right, but it also kicks the crap out of my Dell G7-7790 i7 16GB 2019 laptop (except where the laptop gets to use the RTX 2060). I mean it's not close there either.

Edited to add: and let's not forget that it HAS NO FAN at all. Both my 2015 MBP and my Dell G& sound like an aircraft taking off within a few minutes. (And the Dell gets pretty toasty as well.)

 

[Krevnik]

It doesn't really matter why it's bouncing, the end effect is the same. It's not usable until it's finished the bounce.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my new MBA but I do sometimes wonder what's going on there.

As has been pointed out, the app developer is partly responsible.

The part they aren’t responsible for amounts to the time loading the application binary itself, checking signing (if applicable), and doing pre-launch linking of libraries. Fast CPUs don’t really help much here as it’s all I/O bound work. And Apple has been making changes over time to make this faster, but these routines were optimized ages ago for computers like the PPC G3. So there’s a lack of low hanging fruit to chase in making performance better.

Larger apps will spend more time doing this pre-launch linking, which does contribute, but will generally do it uniformly. I.e. You will have slower cold boots of X seconds, and faster warm boots of Y seconds, without much variation. Well optimized apps will do the same thing, even if they spend multiple seconds in their own code booting the app.

Large spikes like what you saw are almost always something happening inside the app itself before the app confirms that booting is complete. And usually a bug if the developer is paying attention to app launch performance at all.

 

[dmccloud]

I did some comparison tests between my M1 MBP and my 2019 MSI gaming rig when I first got the system. Here are links to some of the testing I did comparing the two systems. The MSI is running an i7-9750H with 16GB RAM, the M1 running 8GB RAM. While the M1 dominated the MSI rig in every CPU and iGPU test (The MSI has both an Intel 630UHD iGPU and GTX 1660Ti dGPU), the 1660Ti demolished the M1s iGPU across the board. At the time of the initial testing, the MSI machine was just one year old.

Some notes on the M1 Macbook Pro (Benchmarks, comparisons to i7 gaming rig)

Here's my Cinebench R23 results: MSI Laptop (i7-9750H, 16GB DDR4, GTX 1660Ti): 1069 (Single Core); 5416 (Multi-Core) MacBook Pro (M1, 8GB RAM): 1518 (Single Core); 7747 (Multi Core) The differences in the Multi Core scores is what stands out to me, especially since the i7 is a 6-core CPU...

forums.macrumors.com

Some notes on the M1 Macbook Pro (Benchmarks, comparisons to i7 gaming rig)

I also ran Geekbench 5 on both systems. While the CPU test is the biggest point of comparison, I'll also include the Compute scores to compare how the M1 and both GPUs in the MSI handle those tests: MSI: 1074 Single-core, 5065 Multi-core 62263 OpenCL, 65953 CUDA, 50803 Vulkan (GTX...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Feyl]

APFS is optimized for file access latency, not throughput. It is entirely possible that you will get higher read/write numbers while benchmarking other file systems, but these numbers have little practical relevance. I doubt that you main use of filesystem consists of copying very large sequential files (and even it were, APFS has you covered via it's fast cloning).

Anyway, application loading is exactly what APFS is optimized for, so I doubt that this is your bottleneck. There is likely something else that is causing your slowdowns. Note that application launching on macOS is much more complex than on some other systems, as it includes more security checks. Linux people for example like to make fun of how slow macOS file operations are, but they completely ignore the fact that macOS has always-on filesystem notifications, certificate-based cryptographic checks, software sandboxing etc...

I don't use benchmarks so I can't say anything to that. I only speak from my normal use of computers.

In theory APFS should be better at almost everything according to Apple, but the fact is that, for example, the boot time is much longer since High Sierra where they changed the file system. I tested it multiple times. Since the time macOS uses APFS I haven't seen a single benefit of it in my use. As a customer I don't care what's going on in the background. In the end, Apple calls all their systems the most advanced operating systems in the world, so they should perform like it.

 

[leman]

@dmccloud Did you ever managed to run some gaming tests? Geekbench GPU scores are weird, I have a suspicion that they artificially favor machines with dedicated GPU memory.