Macbook Pro M1 disappointment.. Is it really fast ?!?

[leman]

In theory APFS should be better at almost everything according to Apple

It's not better at sustained bandwidth, and that is known fairly well. Even HFS+ manages to outperform it in synthetic benchmarks. Not that it means anything in real world.

but the fact is that, for example, the boot time is much longer since High Sierra where they changed the file system.

Sorry, but who cares about boot times? These machines are designed to be always on. And the 30 seconds of boot when you have to surely won't kill you.

Besides, who says that the regression in boot time you observe is due to APFS? There are a lot of things happening during boot, any any of them could affect the overall time. For example, folks like to compare the boot time of Windows and macOS (Windows is undeniably faster), but they disregard the fact that macOS shows you the desktop after all services and standard apps have launched while Windows first shows you the desktop and then starts launching stuff. If you time the process until you get a fully usable, completely load system, Windows takes almost twice as long...

Since the time macOS uses APFS I haven't seen a single benefit of it in my use.

Sure you did (provided you use an SSD of course). More effective disk space usage, faster indexing, better security, more reliable backups, more responsive filesystem. HFS+ was a ticking time bomb.

 

[Feyl]

It's not better at sustained bandwidth, and that is known fairly well. Even HFS+ manages to outperform it in synthetic benchmarks. Not that it means anything in real world.



Sorry, but who cares about boot times? These machines are designed to be always on. And the 30 seconds of boot when you have to surely won't kill you.

Besides, who says that the regression in boot time you observe is due to APFS? There are a lot of things happening during boot, any any of them could affect the overall time. For example, folks like to compare the boot time of Windows and macOS (Windows is undeniably faster), but they disregard the fact that macOS shows you the desktop after all services and standard apps have launched while Windows first shows you the desktop and then starts launching stuff. If you time the process until you get a fully usable, completely load system, Windows takes almost twice as long...



Sure you did (provided you use an SSD of course). More effective disk space usage, faster indexing, better security, more reliable backups, more responsive filesystem. HFS+ was a ticking time bomb.

It's amazing how much our perception can vary. Probably because I don't get excited that much.

I don't really care about the boot times either but it certainly indicates something. It may take longer because there are some security and file integrity checkups, but the best company in the world could do better. Especially after that many years. I personally turn off my desktop and laptop every evening but I have nothing against the other way.

There probably is better security and more reliable backups, but I can't verify those from the POV of user experience. Where exactly is the more effective disk usage, faster indexing? I don't notice any difference in those aspects.

 

[Steve Adams]

As someone who doesn't push the MBP M1 to its boundaries and is limited mostly to menial activities, such as word processing and browsing, the only advantages that I see with my new MBP is longer battery duration, more storage space, and relatively faster boot time compared to my previous E-2015 MBP. Of these, the battery duration has been the most crucial one. However, having upgraded my MBP through all those successive updates provided by Apple I see that the battery performance is declining. Nevertheless, it continues to provide a relatively long duration.

If I take away the battery and boot time comparison, I really don't see any groundbreaking difference between M1 & E2015 MBPs in terms of application processing speed.

The best part is the lowering of prices back down to sane levels. Then the small performance gains in battery life.

 

[Steve Adams]

I don't use benchmarks so I can't say anything to that. I only speak from my normal use of computers.

In theory APFS should be better at almost everything according to Apple, but the fact is that, for example, the boot time is much longer since High Sierra where they changed the file system. I tested it multiple times. Since the time macOS uses APFS I haven't seen a single benefit of it in my use. As a customer I don't care what's going on in the background. In the end, Apple calls all their systems the most advanced operating systems in the world, so they should perform like it.

Agreed, benchmarks are a joke. Run the same benchmark on the same computer 10 times and get 10 different scores. Real world use and application is where you test things. Just like a car with 1000 hp. and a car with 800hp. The 1000hp should win in a drag race. However, the 800 hp car (intel) has 4.60 gears and the 1000 hp car (M1) has 3.30 gears. The 800 hp car will get to 1/4 mile first. same with benchmarking. It's all synthetic.

 

[druPPa23]

What a strange discussion...

Who is interested in the number of bounces while accessing an app for the first time after a restart??
It sounds almost comical.....?

And btw my M1 Air is the best laptop I've used in the last 20 years.

 

[jdb8167]

What a strange discussion...

Who is interested in the number of bounces while accessing an app for the first time after a restart??
It sounds almost comical.....?

And btw my M1 Air is the best laptop I've used in the last 20 years.

It might come into play if you use a very large number of different applications. I just tested and he is right, it takes 3 times as long to open something after a restart than running it a second time but I never noticed before. I use about 20 applications regularly and my MacBook Air stays booted for many days at a time. Not a lot of opportunity for seeing the problem.

 

[lattepompom2016]

No no no, that's not common. I have an i9 16" MBP. I just did a cold boot and Safari launched with 1 bounce.

I just tried again. Same result, Safari opened at the 3rd bounce.

 

[leman]

It's amazing how much our perception can vary. Probably because I don't get excited that much.

Could be also a different usage, no idea. My work routinely involves manipulating thousands of small files, and APFS is a clear improvement in this area.

I don't really care about the boot times either but it certainly indicates something. It may take longer because there are some security and file integrity checkups, but the best company in the world could do better.

The only thing it indicates really is that optimizing for boot time is a lower priority for Apple (which again makes sense since they design their hardware and OS for instant resume from sleep, not for fast reboot).

There probably is better security and more reliable backups, but I can't verify those from the POV of user experience. Where exactly is the more effective disk usage, faster indexing? I don't notice any difference in those aspects.

When was the last time you used an older HFS+ based Mac though? It's difficult to make a comparison if all you can rely on are vague memories, not to mention that there are other factors mixed up as well. Also, you probably don't notice it, but APFS generally uses less space on disk: it is more efficient with storing small files and it avoids creating unnecessary data copies.

Point being: improvements are there, it's probably just not something you notice or care about. APFS was a good move overall. But better file system does not boil down to better performance (you can make ridiculous fast filesystems, but the data resiliency would be terrible).

 

[Qorne]

I have a MBP 16” with i9 and 16GB ram. I bought a M1 MacBook Pro to test it but the only issue i had with my first M1 was 8gb of ram I need more as a heavy user.

I ordered a new MacBook Pro M1 with 16GB of ram and it is super fast. Faster and more stable with a lot of apps open then my MBP 16”

 

[jerryk]

Agreed, benchmarks are a joke. Run the same benchmark on the same computer 10 times and get 10 different scores. Real world use and application is where you test things. Just like a car with 1000 hp. and a car with 800hp. The 1000hp should win in a drag race. However, the 800 hp car (intel) has 4.60 gears and the 1000 hp car (M1) has 3.30 gears. The 800 hp car will get to 1/4 mile first. same with benchmarking. It's all synthetic.

HP matters a lot less than a flat torque curve and management of torque to get power to the ground. This is one reason EVs are so fast.

 

[bousozoku]

I definitely have the opposite experience to you with my M1 Macbook Air. I have MS Office which I use a lot, Capture One and Affinity Photo and everything launches quickly (much quicker than my i5 MBP). All of those apps are native bar Capture One.

Maybe you were expecting a night and day difference in app opening times? I'm sat here on a Windows Computer with a decent processor and SSD and it is painfully slow in comparison to my Mac.

I'm not surprised. I have a mid-2012 MacBook Pro with a 3rd generation quad-core i7 and a late-2017 Omen by HP with 7th generation i7 and, for general work, the two are about the same. Photo editing with Capture One Pro is just as good on the older MacBook Pro.

I want an M1-based machine but I'm waiting for something significant.

It's going to take time for polished software, including the operating system.

 

[circatee]

Just rebooted my i5 2020 Air.

6 bounces before Numbers opened; 15 for Excel.

So you're doing ok.

Second start was pretty much instant, so just set the apps you need to autostart on login.

Not a bad idea. I keep forgetting about the "autostart on login"...

 

[Steve Adams]

HP matters a lot less than a flat torque curve and management of torque to get power to the ground. This is one reason EVs are so fast.

Who was talking about electric cars. Total other topic all together. Better than gas for sure. but not what was being discussed. I am a huge electric fan. MASSIVE. I am also a mechanic by trade. dino powered vehicles days are numbered. Electric will wipe out the dinosaur that is combustion engines in 10 years. Rightfully so too. Petroleum companies have to much power to change the price of gas on whim. Electric companies (in canada) are more restricted. Our gas went from 78c a liter to a 1.50 in a matter of a month and half. I am guessing it's on its way to 2.00 very soon. At which point i am ditching my jeeps to goto full electric vehicles. The time is here to stop feeding the oil monster.

 

[ambient_light]

Migrated from MBP 16''/i9/64Gb to MBA M1 16Gb, and only now can say that MS Office is finally usable on Mac. It's not crazy fast on anything, but just feels normal. Also, somewhat akin to iPad Pro, which is not surprising. Overall, current fanless M1 MBA is a benchmark of how the normal modern PC should feel like, as opposed to antiquated designs with noisy fans, overclocking etc.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I am not using Office 365 so, I can't comment on those apps.

Numbers and Pages open after 2 - 3 bounces.

The other apps were pretty instantaneous from a cold boot. I have been very happy with my M1 and I am not going to fret over a few milliseconds here or there. Doing that is taking anal retentive to a whole new level.

 

[Queen6]

What I found is that first run around Intel Apps can be slow to launch, after that they are blazingly fast. My own M1 MBP easily surpasses my fast Hex Core Windows PC notebook...

Q-6

 

[CheesePuff]

What I found is that first run around Intel Apps can be slow to launch, after that they are blazingly fast. My own M1 MB easily surpasses my fast Hex Core Windows PC notebook...

Q-6

Rosetta 2 translates the binary at first launch which is the delay you are seeing.

 

[mj_]

I see your point, and you're absolutely right. Launching applications after a cold start takes longer than expected. However, I fail to see the use case. Modern computers, be it a Windows or macOS laptop, are not designed to be rebooted every day but rather put to sleep instead ?‍♀️

 

[darngooddesign]

But, if you restart your machine daily and need a lot of apps to work done, it's getting problem.

The obvious solution is to make your computer automatically launch those apps at login.

 

[mi7chy]

Have been saying the same since day one of ownership that MBA M1 storage I/O is slow. Everything is slow from booting, OS updates, launching 3rd party native apps, etc. except for cached bundled apps but takes up memory. Feels like eMMC storage which is < SATA < NVMe. Good to know it's not just 256GB size that's affected.

 

[jeremiah256]

I have trouble understanding why app launch performance after cold start is relevant in this age and day. Surely you are not shutting down your machine after every use? Reboots and shutdown with these laptops should be the exception, they are designed to hibernate. You are not shutting down your iPhone or iPad when are yo not using them, right?

Bottomline is: fast app launch after cold start is not something Apple optimizes for because it's not a typical use case.

Unless you use a lot of different apps none will have to be reloaded. I use Office 365 every day (Outlook, Word, and PowerPoint mostly) and they all open almost instantly. I usually don't quit the apps, there really is no need to do this and if you do and then relaunch them you are working against the OS. I treat the M1 Air like my iPad Pro and just switch between apps. My system is a MB Air, 8GB, 256 GB drive.

Both your posts made me realize that there are probably many holdover practices that need to be reviewed, discarded and retaught.

 

[Jack Neill]

My M1 is fast. My 2020 Air is fast. My 2012 MBP is fast. My 2006 MB 2,1 running Tiger is fast. It really depends how you use it.

I find the M1 to be acceptable speed and features for the entry level price. By comparison the i5 2020 Air is half the raw power of CPU and SSD R/W's but feels exactly the same on my work flow. I might just stick to iLife 06 and 10.4.11 on my 2,1. I miss Aqua.

 

[MBAir2010]

Notes- Pages and numbers opened in 2-4 boings bounces and within seconds
on my 1.6 gz MacBook air 2010 Mojave.

i do?reset the PRAM alot....?

well 3x a month

 

[wicked271]

I turn off my mac mini m1 every time I leave the office and booting up the computer does take a bit longer than I was expecting but the overall experience of the m1 has been great! A few seconds of boot time I can live with. Windows takes a lot longer to turn on and even apps takes quite longer to open especially the Microsoft office apps.

On windows or even my macbook 2017 16gb ram, it takes way too long to transfer to an external hard drive large files (videos, photos). On the m1, it takes minutes! I also tried backing up my iphone 512gb to my macbook using iMazing and it took hours just to initialize the backup. I tried it on my m1 mini and it took just 1-2 hours to finish the backup. So happy with it!

 

[Joelist]

I just rebooted and tried some apps:

Safari opened instantly.

Word 6 bounces which is meaningless. You do know that in all likelihood Word is syncing with OneDrive especially if you have been saving to OneDrive.

Slack is instantaneous.

And I am using the base model MBA.

Really people, there is no logical reason to be full rebooting Macs. MacOS (formerly OSX) was always designed to be always on.