Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

macOS 10.15 Catalina on Unsupported Macs

Status
The first post of this thread is a WikiPost and can be edited by anyone with the appropiate permissions. Your edits will be public.
dosdude1 said:
Alright, so for those who were wondering, myself and @parrotgeek1 have been working on this acceleration issue on our own, and have come to the conclusion that it is not going to be possible to achieve graphics acceleration on non-Metal video cards in Catalina. This is for various reasons, but the main one is the SkyLight and CoreDisplay dependencies. In Catalina, SkyLight and CoreDisplay have been changed greatly, and are interdependent on each other. Meaning, if you replace one from an older version of macOS, you must replace the other, otherwise you'll be left with a ton of unresolved symbols. The problem with doing this, though, Catalina's AppKit relies on all the new functions present in the Catalina CoreDisplay framework. You cannot use a copy of AppKit from an older macOS version, without causing a ton more unresolved symbols.

TLDR, based on this analysis, non-Metal GPU acceleration is not, and will not be possible on 10.15 Catalina. With that said, I will not be releasing the "usual" patcher for 10.15. I do not believe the general public should be using a copy of macOS without full graphics acceleration (I sure as heck know I wouldn't want to), and I'm not going to release a patch that results in extremely poor system performance for the end user (not to mention I would get thousands of complaints per day about it if I did).

I will, however, more than likely make somewhat of a "cut down" patch, designed for use only on Mac Pro systems and some iMacs that have had their video cards upgraded.

I'm as disappointed as you all are about this discovery, and deeply apologize I won't be able to provide a patcher because of it.
Click to expand...

This is unfortunaute, I was hopeing for at least one more update for my trusty 2010 macbook
 
  • Like
Reactions: CharlieRuiz97
dosdude1 said:
Alright, so for those who were wondering, myself and @parrotgeek1 have been working on this acceleration issue on our own, and have come to the conclusion that it is not going to be possible to achieve graphics acceleration on non-Metal video cards in Catalina. This is for various reasons, but the main one is the SkyLight and CoreDisplay dependencies. In Catalina, SkyLight and CoreDisplay have been changed greatly, and are interdependent on each other. Meaning, if you replace one from an older version of macOS, you must replace the other, otherwise you'll be left with a ton of unresolved symbols. The problem with doing this, though, Catalina's AppKit relies on all the new functions present in the Catalina CoreDisplay framework. You cannot use a copy of AppKit from an older macOS version, without causing a ton more unresolved symbols.

TLDR, based on this analysis, non-Metal GPU acceleration is not, and will not be possible on 10.15 Catalina. With that said, I will not be releasing the "usual" patcher for 10.15. I do not believe the general public should be using a copy of macOS without full graphics acceleration (I sure as heck know I wouldn't want to), and I'm not going to release a patch that results in extremely poor system performance for the end user (not to mention I would get thousands of complaints per day about it if I did).

I will, however, more than likely make somewhat of a "cut down" patch, designed for use only on Mac Pro systems and some iMacs that have had their video cards upgraded.

I'm as disappointed as you all are about this discovery, and deeply apologize I won't be able to provide a patcher because of it.
Click to expand...
This is unfortunate news. But I guess it should've been expected. You don't need to apologise. It's unfortunate, but it's not your fault. I'd still like to update macOS Patcher anyway, but of course there would be no acceleration. This is already the case on the MacBook4,1 though, so I might as well update it anyway for the few Metal GPU upgrade capable Macs, the MB4,1, and just for testing. However, there still remains another problem, installing macOS Catalina doesn't work from the patched installer because of the new data partition. I'd appreciate if someone could help try to fix this problem. I still want to maintain this thread but I understand if you and others have given up on Catalina after this news.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Appleak, TimothyR734 and Larsvonhier
Do egpus work with display port? Im not sure if my Macbook 7,1 is compatible with a egpu if it is couldnt I just plug in a metal compatible video card and Catalina would work?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TimothyR734
dosdude1 said:
Alright, so for those who were wondering, myself and @parrotgeek1 have been working on this acceleration issue on our own, and have come to the conclusion that it is not going to be possible to achieve graphics acceleration on non-Metal video cards in Catalina. This is for various reasons, but the main one is the SkyLight and CoreDisplay dependencies. In Catalina, SkyLight and CoreDisplay have been changed greatly, and are interdependent on each other. Meaning, if you replace one from an older version of macOS, you must replace the other, otherwise you'll be left with a ton of unresolved symbols. The problem with doing this, though, Catalina's AppKit relies on all the new functions present in the Catalina CoreDisplay framework. You cannot use a copy of AppKit from an older macOS version, without causing a ton more unresolved symbols.

TLDR, based on this analysis, non-Metal GPU acceleration is not, and will not be possible on 10.15 Catalina. With that said, I will not be releasing the "usual" patcher for 10.15. I do not believe the general public should be using a copy of macOS without full graphics acceleration (I sure as heck know I wouldn't want to), and I'm not going to release a patch that results in extremely poor system performance for the end user (not to mention I would get thousands of complaints per day about it if I did).

I will, however, more than likely make somewhat of a "cut down" patch, designed for use only on Mac Pro systems and some iMacs that have had their video cards upgraded.

I'm as disappointed as you all are about this discovery, and deeply apologize I won't be able to provide a patcher because of it.
Click to expand...

As unfortunate as it is this is something that was bound to happen either this year or next.

I truly appreciate all your efforts and look forward to continue to enjoy the amazing work of yours and your "crew" on my recently acquired 5,1s.
 
  • Like
Reactions: olad, TimothyR734 and Larsvonhier
jackluke said:
Yes, at least for macOSXs as far I know VMs are graphic non-accelerated, but they use their "support tools" to enable additional extensions, for example basic video kext to fit resolution and I guess with at least a kind of framebuffer loaded, but of course even on a Metal Mac, no transparency on macOS VMs.
Click to expand...
Right. One thing to point out is vm’s that use apple’s hypervisor are designed mainly for cloud computing And iOS development on read iOS devices. They have certain benefits and can be hooked into a bulld process. You can also have multi instance for server based software or wide spread user testing. Or if you want to do the latest Xcode in the cloud without having to move the host to run a developer build. Run that on a VM and connect to it remotely. Things like programming on an iPad to a remote vm are possible. There’s lots of use cases.

Anka Build is looking to add full video acceleration. They already have hardware acceleration and their MacOS VMs are very snappy. One day or hardware may just have a super hypervisor and just run VMs inside with fully video acceleration. The technology is getting better. Anka Build can spin up several VMs, do things headless, add things to its config, clone itself, send VMs to a collective. Lots of cool stuff. Kinda like Amazon AMI’s or Docker.

If I ever develop soem swift technology that is in high demand, I’ll be looking how to leverage VMs on beefy hardware.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TimothyR734 and jackluke
dosdude1 said:
Alright, so for those who were wondering, myself and @parrotgeek1 have been working on this acceleration issue on our own, and have come to the conclusion that it is not going to be possible to achieve graphics acceleration on non-Metal video cards in Catalina. This is for various reasons, but the main one is the SkyLight and CoreDisplay dependencies. In Catalina, SkyLight and CoreDisplay have been changed greatly, and are interdependent on each other. Meaning, if you replace one from an older version of macOS, you must replace the other, otherwise you'll be left with a ton of unresolved symbols. The problem with doing this, though, Catalina's AppKit relies on all the new functions present in the Catalina CoreDisplay framework. You cannot use a copy of AppKit from an older macOS version, without causing a ton more unresolved symbols.

TLDR, based on this analysis, non-Metal GPU acceleration is not, and will not be possible on 10.15 Catalina. With that said, I will not be releasing the "usual" patcher for 10.15. I do not believe the general public should be using a copy of macOS without full graphics acceleration (I sure as heck know I wouldn't want to), and I'm not going to release a patch that results in extremely poor system performance for the end user (not to mention I would get thousands of complaints per day about it if I did).

I will, however, more than likely make somewhat of a "cut down" patch, designed for use only on Mac Pro systems and some iMacs that have had their video cards upgraded.

I'm as disappointed as you all are about this discovery, and deeply apologize I won't be able to provide a patcher because of it.
Click to expand...



what about what @jackluke was talking about

and why can’t we change the SkyLight and coreDisplay?
 
  • Like
Reactions: pkouame and TimothyR734
Starplayr said:
Right. One thing to point out is vm’s that use apple’s hypervisor are designed mainly for cloud computing And iOS development on read iOS devices. They have certain benefits and can be hooked into a bulld process. You can also have multi instance for server based software or wide spread user testing. Or if you want to do the latest Xcode in the cloud without having to move the host to run a developer build. Run that on a VM and connect to it remotely. Things like programming on an iPad to a remote vm are possible. There’s lots of use cases.

Anka Build is looking to add full video acceleration. They already have hardware acceleration and their MacOS VMs are very snappy. One day or hardware may just have a super hypervisor and just run VMs inside with fully video acceleration. The technology is getting better. Anka Build can spin up several VMs, do things headless, add things to its config, clone itself, send VMs to a collective. Lots of cool stuff. Kinda like Amazon AMI’s or Docker.

If I ever develop soem swift technology that is in high demand, I’ll be looking how to leverage VMs on beefy hardware.
Click to expand...

Yes, and graphics acceleration was already possible with Windows VMs (Direct3d) and Ubuntu VMs (OpenGL) on many virtualization software.
 
  • Like
Reactions: olad and TimothyR734
Starplayr said:
Right. One thing to point out is vm’s that use apple’s hypervisor are designed mainly for cloud computing And iOS development on read iOS devices. They have certain benefits and can be hooked into a bulld process. You can also have multi instance for server based software or wide spread user testing. Or if you want to do the latest Xcode in the cloud without having to move the host to run a developer build. Run that on a VM and connect to it remotely. Things like programming on an iPad to a remote vm are possible. There’s lots of use cases.

Anka Build is looking to add full video acceleration. They already have hardware acceleration and their MacOS VMs are very snappy. One day or hardware may just have a super hypervisor and just run VMs inside with fully video acceleration. The technology is getting better. Anka Build can spin up several VMs, do things headless, add things to its config, clone itself, send VMs to a collective. Lots of cool stuff. Kinda like Amazon AMI’s or Docker.

If I ever develop soem swift technology that is in high demand, I’ll be looking how to leverage VMs on beefy hardware.
Click to expand...
Very cool. I like that.
[doublepost=1560021094][/doublepost]
jackluke said:
Yes, and graphics acceleration was already possible with Windows VMs (Direct3d) and Ubuntu VMs (OpenGL) on many virtualization software.
Click to expand...
Yup. Virtualizing the OpenGL/Metal layer in some sort of VM would be ideal. I'm sure someone's working on it.
[doublepost=1560021259][/doublepost]
TimothyR734 said:
I am not willing to give up yet even if we can get some acceleration and go with a flat mode like with the hybrid patches for Mojave that might be the best way to go for now :)
Click to expand...
I'm looking into it. Not throwing in the towel just yet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Appleak, Fangio, ASentientBot and 5 others
jbiser361 said:
what about what @jackluke was talking about

and why can’t we change the SkyLight and coreDisplay?
Click to expand...

CoreDisplay is a tricky framework, but SkyLight much more since contains the Windowserver unix exec that is the responsible to manage those processes that draw the OSX GUI.

But the fact that OpenCL+OpenGL from HS or Mojave don't sent him in crash, is not so a bad news.

Catalina is totally usable with them no crashes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Appleak, olad, avz and 3 others
jackluke said:
CoreDisplay is a tricky framework, but SkyLight much more since contains the Windowserver unix exec that is the responsible to manage those processes that draw the OSX GUI.
Click to expand...
oh ok, doesn’t nVidia supply webDrivers for their video cards?

so wouldn’t that help with the Metal Capability?
 
jbiser361 said:
oh ok, doesn’t nVidia supply webDrivers for their video cards?

so wouldn’t that help with the Metal Capability?
Click to expand...
the last web driver Nvidia released was for High Sierra nothing for Mojave and I did try the last web drivers for Nvidia on Mojave it was so sluggish and slow much worse than in safe mode and no graphic acceleration https://github.com/Benjamin-Dobell/nvidia-update/ that is what I used as I was trying to see if I could get graphics accretion using the web drivers from High Sierra but got the 10.14.6 update and installed but the luck would have it after installation it reverted to the web driver and was stuck could stay on the apple supplied driver so had to reinstall Mojave then got back to Apple supplied driver :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: jackluke
jackluke said:
CoreDisplay is a tricky framework, but SkyLight much more since contains the Windowserver unix exec that is the responsible to manage those processes that draw the OSX GUI.
Click to expand...
And don't forget AppKit and all the other graphics frameworks - everything is much more tightly stitched together now because of virtual screen/display/sidecar functionality. And if the bits of gl code that were actually remaining in those frameworks are officially gone then...
[doublepost=1560021617][/doublepost]
TimothyR734 said:
the last web driver Nvidia released was for High Sierra nothing for Mojave and I did try the last web drivers for Nvidia on Mojave it was so sluggish and slow much worse than in safe mode
Click to expand...
yup and Apple and Nvidia have sort of parted ways...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Appleak, olad and jackluke
TimothyR734 said:
the last web driver Nvidia released was for High Sierra nothing for Mojave and I did try the last web drivers for Nvidia on Mojave it was so sluggish and slow much worse than in safe mode
Click to expand...
yikes, ok, is there anyway i can get my hands on the framework for the SkyLight and CoreDisplag framework?
[doublepost=1560021710][/doublepost]
pkouame said:
And don't forget AppKit and all the other graphics frameworks - everything is much more tightly stitched together now because of virtual screen/display/sidecar functionality. And if the bits of gl code that were actually remaining in those frameworks are officially gone then...
[doublepost=1560021617][/doublepost]
yup and Apple and Nvidia have sort of parted ways...
Click to expand...
do we really need sidecars though, can’t we just take that code out?
 
  • Like
Reactions: CharlieRuiz97
jbiser361 said:
oh ok, doesn’t nVidia supply webDrivers for their video cards?

so wouldn’t that help with the Metal Capability?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not for Nvidia Tesla series, but Metal is a different framework from OpenGL, uses different Acceleration drivers (but OpenCL is still there) even if I guess OpenGL is not totally abandoned by apple in Catalina, I mean they still need it.
 
bige12 said:
I get a circle with a dianogal line
Click to expand...

Boot from Mojave Recovery or From the Mojave USB Installer, open Terminal and type:

nvram boot-args="-no_compat_check -v"
reboot

This is the quickest way to get rid of "circle with diagonal line" or to check what's behind it with verbose lines.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ASentientBot and pkouame
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back