macOS High Sierra (10.13) Unsupported Macs Thread

[jbarley]

Well after a lot of trials I've now got a working backup system using CCC.
If anyone is interested these are the steps that worked for me.
1:format your CCC drive APFS
2: use CCC to clone High Sierra drive to the CCC drive.
to do a restore you'll need to run the post install utility against the CCC drive to create a _BOOT partition.
One note and a big PITA, you need to run the post install utility and recreate the _BOOT partition each time you want to boot from either the High Sierra or the Clone drive, otherwise it continues to boot from the last chosen drive.
Clumsy but it does work and gives me backup security until something better comes down the pipe.

 

[nekton1]

I see this when trying to log-in to Messages or FaceTime but the general iCloud log-in works. Neither of these problems occur when using the same 10.13 Developer beta 7 on an HFS+ formatted boot SSD. They only occur on the APFS- formatted boot drive on my

unsupported MP3,1. The same 10.13 Developer beta 7 has no problems on a supported MBA.

 

[Luigi222]

I see this when trying to log-in to Messages or FaceTime but the general iCloud log-in works. Neither of these problems occur when using the same 10.13 Developer beta 7 on an HFS+ formatted boot SSD. They only occur on the APFS- formatted boot drive on myView attachment 714399 unsupported MP3,1. The same 10.13 Developer beta 7 has no problems on a supported MBA.

yes that's it exactly it !!! I also tried APFS with developer 5 and I also got those errors!

Definitely an issue here... thanks for reporting it too!

 

[nekton1]

But why is the same 10.13 beta 7 installed on HFS+ on the same unsupported Mac working perfectly well with respect to iMessages and FaceTime? The only difference is the file system.

yep thats exactly what happens to me! @Brale is having this issue too... many more as soon as they try it will report the same thing I believe... clearly something weird is going on... iMessage and FaceTime don't log in just gets an error and says to try again later, I even changed my password and been trying for the last several hours... But a bug from Apple this big on beta 7 ??? hum 2nd or 3rd beta maybe, but seventh? Does iMessage or FaceTime need some weird access to the firmware for the serial number of the Mac or something? And since it's boots from the " helper partition " because of APFS it can't find it? Could that be the issue?

HERE IS A QUOTE FROM OS X HACKERS: bugs installing Yosemite on unsupported Macs....
"" iMessage/FaceTime note: Most users cannot initially login to iMessage or FaceTime using their Apple ID from their Macs after installing Yosemite as a security precaution. When trying to login, they receive an iMessage Registration validation code. The solution is to contact Apple support, provide the Mac's serial number, explain that Yosemite was installed using our guide and that iMessage isn't working and provide the validation code. Apple then unblocks the Mac, allowing iMessage and FaceTime login immediately and in the future OS updates. They really don't care. """"



Could that be the issue?

 

[roziek]

The same 10.13 Developer beta 7 has no problems on a supported MBA.

No problems on supported Mac when using HFS+ or APFS? Or both?

 

[nekton1]

No problems on same UNsupported Mac (MacPro 3,1) with exactly same hardware when using HFS+.
No problems on supported Mac (MBA 2012) when using either HFS+ (beta 1 and 2) or APFS (beta 3 and later).

Suggeting this is related to APFS+ on unsupported Mac.

No problems on supported Mac when using HFS+ or APFS? Or both?

 

[jhowarth]

Exactly what is the mechanism of the current helper volume in the boot process? Does it leave code running which was started from the HFS volume and is it tethered in anyway to the original HFS helper volume? If so perhaps, those services can all be restarted post-boot once the APFS filesystem is in use to make sure all of the OS code thinks it is running from APFS?

 

[roziek]

No problems on same UNsupported Mac (MacPro 3,1) with exactly same hardware when using HFS+.
No problems on supported Mac (MBA 2012) when using either HFS+ (beta 1 and 2) or APFS (beta 3 and later).

Suggeting this is related to APFS+ on unsupported Mac.

@nekton1 Ok, thanks.

@dosdude1 Please let us know when you make the change to synchronize between the main and helper partition via Partition UUID.
[doublepost=1503654225][/doublepost]

Exactly what is the mechanism of the current helper volume in the boot process? Does it leave code running which was started from the HFS volume and is it tethered in anyway to the original HFS helper volume? If so perhaps, those services can all be restarted post-boot once the APFS filesystem is in use to make sure all of the OS code thinks it is running from APFS?

@jhowarth I don’t think the helper partition plays any role outside of helping to boot, I don’t think there’s anything running from that when you’re fully booted into HS.

When you run macOS Post Install, it loads a system-wide LaunchDaemon to your High Sierra installation volume. So when you boot into it, it ensures that prelinkedkernel is synchronized between that volume and the helper partition, so the next time you try to boot via the helper partition it boots the correct volume. And then when you’re booted into HS the daemon synchronizes them again, and the cycle repeats, etc.

 

[Luigi222]

No problems on same UNsupported Mac (MacPro 3,1) with exactly same hardware when using HFS+.
No problems on supported Mac (MBA 2012) when using either HFS+ (beta 1 and 2) or APFS (beta 3 and later).

Suggeting this is related to APFS+ on unsupported Mac.

It’s more than likely at this point that apple has some kind of restriction on models that run APFS , and it somehow knows that hardware is not supposed to run high sierra on APFS...

Because at the setup part, I try to connect to my wifi it doesn’t let me (even tho it finds the networks fine) , so I connected to my lan cable, and still when I got to the part of loggin in icloud it said something like " you can’t create an Icloud account from this mac " ... and than on the system it self I getvthose errors that is mentioned....

Next thing I am about to try is install as HFS, set it up properly, and then convert it manually to APFS with disk utility , and than apply @dosdude1 ’s patch and see if what happens...

 

[roziek]

@jhowarth I just checked and can confirm that it's indeed a system-wide daemon. It runs once on the system boot and runs the "apfshelperd" executable that takes care of synchronizing the prelinkedkernel between the High Sierra partition and the helper boot partition.

@Luigi222 I can connect to WiFi with no problems during the setup process, on an unsupported Mac.

 

[roziek]

I too can confirm that attempting to sign in into FaceTime fails in APFS High Sierra on an unsupported Mac.

 

[Brale]

I can connect to wifi during the process also. Everything is working fine but iMessage and FaceTime.
On supported MBA it doesn't matter, APSF or HFS+, no issues at all.

 

[roziek]

No problems on same UNsupported Mac (MacPro 3,1) with exactly same hardware when using HFS+.
No problems on supported Mac (MBA 2012) when using either HFS+ (beta 1 and 2) or APFS (beta 3 and later).

Suggeting this is related to APFS+ on unsupported Mac.

Which is why I've been saying that it still can be just the fact that it's beta, and that's it. If that was intentional on Apple's part, they would probably think of a way to block all unsupported Macs, regardless of the filesystem used (meaning it would not work on both HFS+ and APFS).

Additionally, I can now confirm, too, that I can sign in into FaceTime on an unsupported Mac running HFS+ High Sierra.

 

[jhowarth]

It's unfortunate that none of the VM's out there support booting High Sierra from APFS yet or that would be a nice data point to collect for comparison (to see if running 10.13 from generic virtual hardware on APFS produced the same glitch with iCloud/Messages/Facetime).

 

[Czo]

I am thinking about something with the conversion will make it failing. The Macs, that worked with Facetime/iMessage with APFS are installed directly (or converted with the installer) to APFS? Maybe the APFS case sensitivity making something wrong when converting a file system by hand on a running system.

 

[jhowarth]

https://developer.apple.com/library...Management/Conceptual/APFS_Guide/FAQ/FAQ.html

"In iOS 10.3 and in the case-sensitive variant of the developer preview of APFS in macOS Sierra, APFS is normalization-sensitive. For these versions, developers should be aware of behavior differences between normalization sensitivity and insensitivity that may arise when a device upgrades macOS or iOS and migrates the filesystem from HFS+ to APFS. For example, attempting to create a file using one normalization behavior and then opening that file using another normalization behavior may result in ENOENT, or “File Not Found” errors. Additionally, storing filenames externally, such as in the defaults database, Core Data, or iCloud storage may cause problems if the normalization scheme of the filename being stored is different from what exists on disk."

So perhaps it might help if the Sierra Patch application created the HFS helper volume as a case-sensitive one in case there is any unexpected interactions with it and the APFS volume.

 

[Stratus Fear]

Does @foxlet’s NewCore work with iMessage and FaceTime on an unsupported Mac?

WRT @dosdude1’s patch, maybe it’s because the APFS volume containing HS isn’t the startup disk, but the helper HFS+ volume is.

 

[roziek]

Does @foxlet’s NewCore work with iMessage and FaceTime on an unsupported Mac?

WRT @dosdude1’s patch, maybe it’s because the APFS volume containing HS isn’t the startup disk, but the helper HFS+ volume is.

You could test that. Boot into APFS HS > go to System Preferences > Startup Disk > change it temporarily to the proper APFS High Sierra partition, instead of the helper one > try to log into FaceTime.

Can't do that at the moment, so maybe someone else can and would be kind enough to report .

 

[Stratus Fear]

You could test that. Boot into APFS HS > go to System Preferences > Startup Disk > change it temporarily to the proper APFS High Sierra partition, instead of the helper one > try to log into FaceTime.

Can't do that at the moment, so maybe someone else can and would be kind enough to report .

Unfortunately I’m not using HS on my imac7,1 yet, otherwise I would gladly try. I’m just spitballing some ideas. I dunno why the startup disk would matter but my thinking was more that the running kernel is from a different volume than the root volume. If we had a better idea about the black box that is iMessage and FaceTime activation I’m sure we could figure out something here!

 

[roziek]

I know, but it's worth trying out. If no one else does that in the meantime, I'll test it when I get home later.

 

[Brale]

I just tried. Changed from HS_BOOT to HS partition and didnt even boot. It booted to Sierra partition instead of HS.

 

[roziek]

While I'm here, I'd like to bring up the matter of NightShift again: has anyone managed to get it working on High Sierra on unsupported Macs? Method doesn't matter.
[doublepost=1503675272][/doublepost]

I just tried. Changed from HS_BOOT to HS partition and didnt even boot. It booted to Sierra partition instead of HS.

Do not boot . Simply, when fully booted into High Sierra, change the boot disk to the proper HS partition in System Preferences > Startup Disk and then try to sign in into FaceTime or iMessage. No need to reboot after you changed the startup disk.

Let us know.

 

[Brale]

While I'm here, I'd like to bring up the matter of NightShift again: has anyone managed to get it working on High Sierra on unsupported Macs? Method doesn't matter.
[doublepost=1503675272][/doublepost]

Do not boot . Simply, when fully booted into High Sierra, change the boot disk to the proper HS partition in System Preferences > Startup Disk and then try to sign in into FaceTime or iMessage. No need to reboot after you changed the startup disk.

Let us know.

No luck. Same issue.

@roziek, I just tried @foxlet's NighEnabler but it didn't work. It gives me an error.

 

[dosdude1]

No luck. Same issue.

@roziek, I just tried @foxlet's NighEnabler but it didn't work. It gives me an error.

View attachment 714482

Yeah, don't use NightEnabler with High Sierra. The binary it replaces needs to be edited in a different way than in Sierra. I'll get that done, and release it via Patch Updater.

 

[roziek]

Yeah, don't use NightEnabler with High Sierra. The binary it replaces needs to be edited in a different way than in Sierra. I'll get that done, and release it via Patch Updater.

Awesome, thank you .