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tmiw

macrumors 68030
Jun 26, 2007
2,544
612
San Diego, CA
I think the payment networks should make NFC a requirement to accept them as payment. If Walmart and similar companies want people to use their apps they should provide a financial incentive to do so, rather than being allowed to disable worldwide standards, especially now during the pandemic when reducing touch as much as possible is a good thing.

Honestly, it took a pandemic to get a significant number of the holdouts to change their minds, so I wouldn't be surprised if a mandate did have to be imposed eventually. Assuming we don't just end up doing card not present (e.g. online/mobile ordering) as the standard, of course.

That said, considering that the US adopted EMV late enough that terminals without contactless support had become hard to find, we theoretically shouldn't have needed one.
 

Böhme417

macrumors 65816
Mar 11, 2009
1,054
1,501
Now if they could only complete the roll out as my two local locations don't even have either chip or contactless enabled yet.


My two local Costco gas locations doesn't even have chip or contactless enabled yet. So I will be checking it out next week and seeing if it been enabled yet. Well others have said it have worked at their locations in different states so your location might be having issues which can happen when you roll out new payment methods. Did you make sure that the green nfc light is actually lit on the Verifone ctls reader like in the picture? If not that is the issue and I'm sure it will be fixed soon. But if its actually lit then that means its not connected correctly which should also be fixed soon. You can call Costco and tell them its not working and they might be able to fix it faster.

Also here is Love's new UI at the pump:
View attachment 970190
Oh, the green light is on. The green light has been on and flashing since the day these showed up the pumps (over two years ago?). I've contacted Costco several times about these readers over the last couple of years and always get canned generic responses. "Working on it... coming soon... phased rollout... blah blah blah"
 

dontwalkhand

macrumors 603
Jul 5, 2007
6,462
3,003
Phoenix, AZ
Oh, the green light is on. The green light has been on and flashing since the day these showed up the pumps (over two years ago?). I've contacted Costco several times about these readers over the last couple of years and always get canned generic responses. "Working on it... coming soon... phased rollout... blah blah blah"
Flashing isn’t the same thing as steady on. EMVCo dictates one steady light or virtual dot when waiting for a contactless read and all four lights lit when read was successful.
 

MisterSavage

macrumors 601
Nov 10, 2018
4,841
5,739
Honestly, it took a pandemic to get a significant number of the holdouts to change their minds, so I wouldn't be surprised if a mandate did have to be imposed eventually.

I'm convinced this is true for some of the retailers that finally started accepting NFC this year.
 

lartola

macrumors 68020
Feb 10, 2017
2,161
1,081
Honestly, it took a pandemic to get a significant number of the holdouts to change their minds, so I wouldn't be surprised if a mandate did have to be imposed eventually. Assuming we don't just end up doing card not present (e.g. online/mobile ordering) as the standard, of course.

That said, considering that the US adopted EMV late enough that terminals without contactless support had become hard to find, we theoretically shouldn't have needed one.

And I think the US also needs a mandate for all restaurants to stop taking cards away to process payments. That was what made them stop doing that and get wireless POS here in Mexico and in the rest of Latin America around a decade ago. And at least in Mexico it wasn’t due to the need to enter a PIN like in Europe because at the time Mexico was chip+signature just like the US (chip+pin for credit cards in Mexico only started in 2018 when the networks mandated the elimination of signatures for authentication), it was mandated by the networks for added security.

Unless there is such a mandate, card not present will eventually become the new standard at US restaurants. Especially now due to the pandemic.
 

cub850G2

macrumors 6502
Nov 15, 2014
290
30
NE
Oh, the green light is on. The green light has been on and flashing since the day these showed up the pumps (over two years ago?). I've contacted Costco several times about these readers over the last couple of years and always get canned generic responses. "Working on it... coming soon... phased rollout... blah blah blah"

Flashing is exactly what the Costco Gas locations that don't have it working yet. Including my local locations and it won't work until chip is also enabled. So when the green nfc light is solid contactless will finally work.

Flashing isn’t the same thing as steady on. EMVCo dictates one steady light or virtual dot when waiting for a contactless read and all four lights lit when read was successful.
Correct and some gas stations still only have the flashing nfc light while all the working locations have solid lights and rarely the nfc led can burn out but it still reads contactless just fine. If its burned out that reader obviously won't flash.
 

tmiw

macrumors 68030
Jun 26, 2007
2,544
612
San Diego, CA
I'm convinced this is true for some of the retailers that finally started accepting NFC this year.

On a somewhat related note, PYMNTS is still pushing the "people don't want to use NFC" line. At least they do admit usage has gone up, though. I just wish it had gone up sooner and without the need for a health threat, which makes me wonder whether it's really all been worth it.

Unless there is such a mandate, card not present will eventually become the new standard at US restaurants. Especially now due to the pandemic.

Honestly, what if customers actually prefer QR type stuff at restaurants? It's too early to know for sure what will happen without a NFC mandate.

Also, I'm not even sure a lot of the restaurant industry will be around next year. Plus, what remains definitely will be extremely hesitant to spend more money than they have to IMO. At least QR would prevent cards from just being skimmed out of sight of customers, even if it's not ideal for people unable to use it for whatever reason.

BTW, a new Raising Cane's opened by me recently and it looks like they finally got around to EMV and contactless. I know their other location here never got the former enabled pre-pandemic (I only went to that one once or twice since it began) and kept the terminals facing the cashiers, making contactless difficult/impossible. I think it likely is enabled there now since I believe both locations are corporate-owned.
 

MisterSavage

macrumors 601
Nov 10, 2018
4,841
5,739
On a somewhat related note, PYMNTS is still pushing the "people don't want to use NFC" line. At least they do admit usage has gone up, though. I just wish it had gone up sooner and without the need for a health threat, which makes me wonder whether it's really all been worth it.

It blew my mind that before the pandemic some retailers in the US were still asking for a signature with a credit card purchase even though that requirement had been lifted in 2018. I haven't written my "real" signature on a credit card receipt in over a decade.
 

lartola

macrumors 68020
Feb 10, 2017
2,161
1,081
It blew my mind that before the pandemic some retailers in the US were still asking for a signature with a credit card purchase even though that requirement had been lifted in 2018. I haven't written my "real" signature on a credit card receipt in over a decade.
That’s because the software on their POS device or system isn’t updated to a version recent enough to reflect the elimination of signatures. I still get asked for the signature every so often. Even when using apple pay and not the actual card.
 
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lartola

macrumors 68020
Feb 10, 2017
2,161
1,081
On a somewhat related note, PYMNTS is still pushing the "people don't want to use NFC" line. At least they do admit usage has gone up, though. I just wish it had gone up sooner and without the need for a health threat, which makes me wonder whether it's really all been worth it.



Honestly, what if customers actually prefer QR type stuff at restaurants? It's too early to know for sure what will happen without a NFC mandate.

Also, I'm not even sure a lot of the restaurant industry will be around next year. Plus, what remains definitely will be extremely hesitant to spend more money than they have to IMO. At least QR would prevent cards from just being skimmed out of sight of customers, even if it's not ideal for people unable to use it for whatever reason.

BTW, a new Raising Cane's opened by me recently and it looks like they finally got around to EMV and contactless. I know their other location here never got the former enabled pre-pandemic (I only went to that one once or twice since it began) and kept the terminals facing the cashiers, making contactless difficult/impossible. I think it likely is enabled there now since I believe both locations are corporate-owned.
QR will lead to a card not present transaction and merchants have to pay a much higher fee for those transactions. If card not present becomes the new standard at restaurants, they’ll be spending in fees what they saved by not purchasing standalone wireless terminals.
 

tmiw

macrumors 68030
Jun 26, 2007
2,544
612
San Diego, CA
It blew my mind that before the pandemic some retailers in the US were still asking for a signature with a credit card purchase even though that requirement had been lifted in 2018. I haven't written my "real" signature on a credit card receipt in over a decade.

I'm fairly sure it was/is a combination of mistrust towards the card networks and a few (many?) cheapskates ruining it for the rest of us. By the latter, I mainly mean people tipping less unless forced to sign. Otherwise, they'd have at least disabled the signature prompt for smaller purchases.

QR will lead to a card not present transaction and merchants have to pay a much higher fee for those transactions. If card not present becomes the new standard at restaurants, they’ll be spending in fees what they saved by not purchasing standalone wireless terminals.

There wouldn't be anything preventing the networks from tweaking their interchange fee schedules/rules to take that into account. They very well might, too, to head off any e.g. government regulation.
 

compwiz1202

macrumors 604
May 20, 2010
7,389
5,746
And I think the US also needs a mandate for all restaurants to stop taking cards away to process payments. That was what made them stop doing that and get wireless POS here in Mexico and in the rest of Latin America around a decade ago. And at least in Mexico it wasn’t due to the need to enter a PIN like in Europe because at the time Mexico was chip+signature just like the US (chip+pin for credit cards in Mexico only started in 2018 when the networks mandated the elimination of signatures for authentication), it was mandated by the networks for added security.

Unless there is such a mandate, card not present will eventually become the new standard at US restaurants. Especially now due to the pandemic.
Does anyone else that eats at Red Lobster have it where the machine says it does NFC but it doesn't? I've tried everywhere on the machine but nothing happens. My favorites are Outback/Carrabbas/Bonefish where you get the 50% off the fourth order up to $20. And everything is through the app. When you pay with the app, it automatically applies it to the rewards.
 

cub850G2

macrumors 6502
Nov 15, 2014
290
30
NE
Well it seems that all Costco Gas locations will be getting EMV and contactless support in the next two months. https://www.reddit.com/r/Costco/comments/jhvxcs/_/ga2uov8 According to a Costco employee on Reddit and it explains why it doesn't work at all gas locations yet including my two local locations. I will keep checking every week until it gets enabled. Although now inside Costco does allow pin bypass on Visa Debit cards when you use mobile pays or a contactless card tapped. Before would result in a "Not Authorized" message and now you just tap then push the green enter key and "Approved" appears on the MX915.

EDIT 10/31/20: 6 days after I visited Costco Gas on 10/23/20 so between then and 10/29/20 Costco enabled EMV contact and EMV contactless at my local Costco Gas location and I'd imagine both locations have it now. PIN bypass is supported on Visa Debit contactless cards(or in mobile pays) only while MC Debit contactless works with a pin so the same as inside Costco.
 
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mlody

macrumors 68000
Nov 11, 2012
1,623
1,236
Windy City
Well it seems that all Costco Gas locations will be getting EMV and contactless support in the next two months. https://www.reddit.com/r/Costco/comments/jhvxcs/_/ga2uov8 According to a Costco employee on Reddit and it explains why it doesn't work at all gas locations yet including my two local locations. I will keep checking every week until it gets enabled. Although now inside Costco does allow pin bypass on Visa Debit cards when you use mobile pays or a contactless card tapped. Before would result in a "Not Authorized" message and now you just tap then push the green enter key and "Approved" appears on the MX915.

EDIT 10/31/20: 6 days after I visited Costco Gas on 10/23/20 so between then and 10/29/20 Costco enabled EMV contact and EMV contactless at my local Costco Gas location and I'd imagine both locations have it now. PIN bypass is supported on Visa Debit contactless cards(or in mobile pays) only while MC Debit contactless works with a pin so the same as inside Costco.
The new process for paying is a bit annoying. Since Costco's membership card is not NFC I see a very little benefit for Apple Pay at their gas station. I find it that now if I use Coscto Citi Visa I no longer have to swipe it twice, just put it in once and the system processes the membership and payment - way more convenient than hassle with the card and then Apple Pay and improvement over the previous process where the card had to be swiped twice. This looks like the only play i will not bother with Apple Pay - just dont see any benefit.
 

MisterSavage

macrumors 601
Nov 10, 2018
4,841
5,739
The new process for paying is a bit annoying. Since Costco's membership card is not NFC I see a very little benefit for Apple Pay at their gas station. I find it that now if I use Coscto Citi Visa I no longer have to swipe it twice, just put it in once and the system processes the membership and payment - way more convenient than hassle with the card and then Apple Pay and improvement over the previous process where the card had to be swiped twice. This looks like the only play i will not bother with Apple Pay - just dont see any benefit.

That's so interesting. I didn't know that their credit card also could be used in place of the membership card.
 

tmiw

macrumors 68030
Jun 26, 2007
2,544
612
San Diego, CA
The new process for paying is a bit annoying. Since Costco's membership card is not NFC I see a very little benefit for Apple Pay at their gas station. I find it that now if I use Coscto Citi Visa I no longer have to swipe it twice, just put it in once and the system processes the membership and payment - way more convenient than hassle with the card and then Apple Pay and improvement over the previous process where the card had to be swiped twice. This looks like the only play i will not bother with Apple Pay - just dont see any benefit.

I think it'll be improved once the barcode scanners at the pump start working. At other places that use barcode/QR code for loyalty, anyway, it's not much more hassle to have them scan the barcode and then just tap my phone.
 
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lartola

macrumors 68020
Feb 10, 2017
2,161
1,081
I think it'll be improved once the barcode scanners at the pump start working. At other places that use barcode/QR code for loyalty, anyway, it's not much more hassle to have them scan the barcode and then just tap my phone.
I do exactly that at 7-eleven (7-eleven stores in Mexico, that is). I have them scan the loyalty barcode (here they use the payback loyalty program) from my apple watch screen and then I just tap the watch on the pinpad to pay with apple pay.
 

dontwalkhand

macrumors 603
Jul 5, 2007
6,462
3,003
Phoenix, AZ
The new process for paying is a bit annoying. Since Costco's membership card is not NFC I see a very little benefit for Apple Pay at their gas station. I find it that now if I use Coscto Citi Visa I no longer have to swipe it twice, just put it in once and the system processes the membership and payment - way more convenient than hassle with the card and then Apple Pay and improvement over the previous process where the card had to be swiped twice. This looks like the only play i will not bother with Apple Pay - just dont see any benefit.
Tap the card then. Don’t insert it.
 

Böhme417

macrumors 65816
Mar 11, 2009
1,054
1,501
The new process for paying is a bit annoying. Since Costco's membership card is not NFC I see a very little benefit for Apple Pay at their gas station. I find it that now if I use Coscto Citi Visa I no longer have to swipe it twice, just put it in once and the system processes the membership and payment - way more convenient than hassle with the card and then Apple Pay and improvement over the previous process where the card had to be swiped twice. This looks like the only play i will not bother with Apple Pay - just dont see any benefit.
You don't have to "put it in" at all. Contactless works for both the membership portion and payment when using the Costco Citi card.
 

cub850G2

macrumors 6502
Nov 15, 2014
290
30
NE
I just wanted to let everyone know that Murphy USA who is often located outside of Wal-Mart is now accepting contactless payments inside and at the pump. All EMV contactless inside and outside as expected at this point.
 

MisterSavage

macrumors 601
Nov 10, 2018
4,841
5,739
I just wanted to let everyone know that Murphy USA who is often located outside of Wal-Mart is now accepting contactless payments inside and at the pump. All EMV contactless inside and outside as expected at this point.
I just went to a 7-11 that had installed brand new pumps which did not have NFC readers. And for a credit card it was still using magnetic swipe. :rolleyes:
 

cub850G2

macrumors 6502
Nov 15, 2014
290
30
NE
I just went to a 7-11 that had installed brand new pumps which did not have NFC readers. And for a credit card it was still using magnetic swipe. :rolleyes:
Yes 7-Eleven refuses to accept contactless at the pump but a few locations with Wayne pumps do support it outside, while locations with Gilbarco pumps do not. 7-Eleven locations with MX915 inside do not have contactless enabled while locations with only iSC250's have it enabled inside. Its a freaking mess at 7-Eleven..
 

lartola

macrumors 68020
Feb 10, 2017
2,161
1,081
Yes 7-Eleven refuses to accept contactless at the pump but a few locations with Wayne pumps do support it outside, while locations with Gilbarco pumps do not. 7-Eleven locations with MX915 inside do not have contactless enabled while locations with only iSC250's have it enabled inside. Its a freaking mess at 7-Eleven..
I can’t believe 7-eleven is better organized in a third world country than in it is the US. Here in Mexico all 7-eleven stores have ipp320’s and they all have contactless enabled. They all accept apple pay just fine despite it still not being officially supported in the country (official support is just coming later this year).
 
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