MBA 2018–NOOO! Keyboard failed...

[Ghost31]

Proof? Ok let me try...

• Due to the number of keyboard failure reports, last year Apple had to provide a WORLD WIDE program to repair FOR FREE all gen-1 and gen-2 keyboards, even if outside of the guarantee window.
• This year, Apple releases a PUBLIC statement via the Wall Street Journal ADMITTING that the issue still affects some gen-3 users.

Well, I'm not sure what kind of numerical proof you're searching for, but it seems to me that THEIR OWN ACTIONS indicate that they're indeed aware that there's some type of problem here...

And I didn’t say there wasn’t an issue. I said I don’t think it’s as widespread as people claim like it’s affecting 100% of the keyboards or something when that’s far from the truth. Recognizing an issue and offering to fix it if it occurs for some users is not the same thing as every keyboard everywhere having it. What percentage of keyboards do you think have this issue? And how many ARENT covered?

Like I said. I hope apple extends the keyboard program to the butterfly 3 and helps out the people affected, but I don’t believe people everywhere should just stop buying MacBooks on the off chance they’ll get a bad keyboard. They could also get a bad flex display. Or a few years ago bad video cards. Or before that bad screens due to some issue with lg and Samsung. There have been issues with every release of every product ever

 

[Howard2k]

Am I meant to prove a negative here? First prove it’s widespread and affected a vast vast number of people. Anecdotes don’t count

The fact that folks are having keyboards replaced, and then are having issues with the replacements shows that statistically it's a significant issue.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Am I meant to prove a negative here? First prove it’s widespread and affected a vast vast number of people. Anecdotes don’t count

Your statement that "most people" are either jumping on a complaint bandwagon or lying is not a negative. I simply asked what evidence you had to make such a statement. And if you have none, then that statement itself is an anecdote.

 

[bearinthetown]

The fact that folks are having keyboards replaced, and then are having issues with the replacements shows that statistically it's a significant issue.

Exactly my thoughts. If that was a rare issue, it would be almost impossible to have faulty keyboard three times in row and I know people who did.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

The fact that folks are having keyboards replaced, and then are having issues with the replacements shows that statistically it's a significant issue.

It shows that there is an inherent design flaw.

 

[bearinthetown]

It shows that there is an inherent design flaw.

It shows that Apple lies (nothing new) when they say it’s a „small number” and that „vast majority is happy”. This is just pure crap.

 

[Ghost31]

Your statement that "most people" are either jumping on a complaint bandwagon or lying is not a negative. I simply asked what evidence you had to make such a statement. And if you have none, then that statement itself is an anecdote.

Yeah maybe you’re right. I may have just been in a mood where I got off a 13 hour shift hearing people complain and I was irritated and sick of hearing people complain so I accidentally brought it here. The more I’ve kinda sat down and thought about it, the more I agree with you. So consider my mind changed

 

[Kraizelburg]

I don't have any issues yet with my MBA 2018, but clearly the KB design is flawed. If someone replaced his KB and get the same issues means there is not random mistake in the production line but rather a design flaw.
They will prob realease a completely new keyboard with no issues and will leave 3 generations of macbook owners in the "limbo" because I don't see how they can fix the problem in such a tiny body.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Yeah maybe you’re right. I may have just been in a mood where I got off a 13 hour shift hearing people complain and I was irritated and sick of hearing people complain so I accidentally brought it here. The more I’ve kinda sat down and thought about it, the more I agree with you. So consider my mind changed

I appreciate your honesty. I think a lot of us complainers are just frustrated with Apple's recent behavior and product offerings, coupled with the ever-higher prices, and MacRumors is a good place to vent and keep up with the situation.

 

[Scriabin]

Appreciate everyone's input on this issue--really a good discussion.

Just an update, ("I'm screaming NOOOOOO!! in my head as I write")-- my MBA Retina 2018 has a jammed non-functional key again. The "L" key now is non-functional. This is the very computer that had it's keyboard replaced as reported in the initial post on this thread. Headed to the apple store tomorrow; presumably for another replacement. Not sure if it's bad karma, or a non-reliable product, but clearly, for me, Apple has blown it. Between this and my previous 12" MacBook air which had 2 keyboard replacements as well, that's 4 keyboards with the same issue. <sigh> More than frustrated, I'm saddened with the experience I've had with this expensive device. Not sure how much longer I can stick with Apple.

I'll keep you all posted.

My last remark, "Tim Cook:--*please* do something if you care about your loyal customers....

 

[CaptRB]

Appreciate everyone's input on this issue--really a good discussion.

Just an update, ("I'm screaming NOOOOOO!! in my head as I write")-- my MBA Retina 2018 has a jammed non-functional key again. The "L" key now is non-functional. This is the very computer that had it's keyboard replaced as reported in the initial post on this thread. Headed to the apple store tomorrow; presumably for another replacement. Not sure if it's bad karma, or a non-reliable product, but clearly, for me, Apple has blown it. Between this and my previous 12" MacBook air which had 2 keyboard replacements as well, that's 4 keyboards with the same issue. <sigh> More than frustrated, I'm saddened with the experience I've had with this expensive device. Not sure how much longer I can stick with Apple.

I'll keep you all posted.

My last remark, "Tim Cook:--*please* do something if you care about your loyal customers....

The new keyboards are a disaster. I have ZERO doubt about it and now know a lot of people who have had issues with the new MBA and of course the MBP units.

Casual users are less likely to have issues and will wonder what all the fuss is about. But people working on these machines a LOT are likely to have a problem sooner or later.

I have the last of the "good" keyboard MBA units and they're bulletproof. I'd be all over the new ones, but I know they can't be relied upon. Apple is just not a good company any more. They've had plenty of time to sort this out and have let too many people down.


R.

 

[joeswamp]

I have the last of the "good" keyboard MBA units and they're bulletproof. I'd be all over the new ones, but I know they can't be relied upon. Apple is just not a good company any more. They've had plenty of time to sort this out and have let too many people down.

I agree with this statement 100% and am in the exact same boat, I need to buy another laptop but can't. I wonder how many others folks are in the same situation?

This stupid keyboard should never have been released ever. I don't understand why there's such an obsession with thickness in the laptop range, iPhones have been getting thicker the last few years (thinnest was the iPhone6). Sacrificing the keyboard to make a laptop thinner is sort of like sacrificing the camera to make a phone thinner, which the phone guys did not do.

 

[Dave245]

It really comes to something when the keyboard on the Surface Pro 6 is more reliable than on the current MacBook's. Apple need's to get it's s*** in order and soon.

 

[Vdovin]

I agree with this statement 100% and am in the exact same boat, I need to buy another laptop but can't. I wonder how many others folks are in the same situation?

This stupid keyboard should never have been released ever. I don't understand why there's such an obsession with thickness in the laptop range, iPhones have been getting thicker the last few years (thinnest was the iPhone6). Sacrificing the keyboard to make a laptop thinner is sort of like sacrificing the camera to make a phone thinner, which the phone guys did not do.

If you going to worry about something breaking in 2 or 3 or even 5 years time every time you buy something you just never going to end up buying it.

All products no matter what they are Apple, windows, etc even outside of pc products you will always get issues. Nothing is ever perfect and it will never be perfect. Things break and you end up replacing them with new things it’s just a cycle.

By the time you have an issue with a mba keyboard you will probably want a new laptop anyways which will give you an excuse to buy one lol. Unless you get a really unlucky one that was probably made on a Friday when no one could be a**ed in the office lol.

 

[Dave245]

By the time you have an issue with a mba keyboard you will probably want a new laptop anyways which will give you an excuse to buy one lol. Unless you get a really unlucky one that was probably made on a Friday when no one could be a**ed in the office lol.

That would normally be true, however the butterfly keyboard has had higher failure rates. Resulting in a repair needed at an Apple store. This happens not 3-5 years after purchase, but sometimes within 12 months!

The keyboard issues need addressing and fixing! I’m in the market for a new MacBook but I just can’t risk the buy at the moment with a higher failure rate. Once Apple fix the issue, it will be an instant buy for me!

 

[Vdovin]

That would normally be true, however the butterfly keyboard has had higher failure rates. Resulting in a repair needed at an Apple store. This happens not 3-5 years after purchase, but sometimes within 12 months!

The keyboard issues need addressing and fixing! I’m in the market for a new MacBook but I just can’t risk the buy at the moment with a higher failure rate. Once Apple fix the issue, it will be an instant buy for me!

I completely understand where you are coming from as I use a laptop for work, but in reality I think this can happen with any laptop. I’ve had plenty of keyboards go in the past it’s not unusual, especially with heavy use.

I think expectations with Apple are much higher nowadays, the criticisms are a lot worse on Apple products with far smaller problems then any other product, simply because of the premium they charge which is of course understandable, when you paying a higher price you expecting a far superior equipment.

 

[Martyimac]

Folks have expressed different opinions on the new MB keyboard failures so here is mine. THEY.ARE.JUNK.
The occasional failure of anything mechanical is always possible. But the failure rate of those keyboards is way above the curve. I have NEVER had ANY keyboard of any laptop or desktop fail up to now. Am I lucky? Or maybe it's because up to now, folks made things differently/better. Keep in mind this is with over 40 years of various keyboard usages, and conservatively I would guess I have used over 50+ different keyboards in my lifetime. And no, I don't have a post 2015 MacBook of any sort. I tried the new 2016 MBP keyboards and some years posted here on MR that those keyboards were not good. Hindsight and foresight were 20/20 I guess.
It is to the point that even though I love  products, I absolutely will not recommend ANY  keyboard/laptop.
YMMV of course.

 

[Ghost31]

That would normally be true, however the butterfly keyboard has had higher failure rates. Resulting in a repair needed at an Apple store. This happens not 3-5 years after purchase, but sometimes within 12 months!

The keyboard issues need addressing and fixing! I’m in the market for a new MacBook but I just can’t risk the buy at the moment with a higher failure rate. Once Apple fix the issue, it will be an instant buy for me!

Greetings earthlings I am from the future. 2 years from now to be exact. And godddd. I wish we had keyboard issues. We have video card issues where the whole damn thing blows up! So you’re better off waiting until 2026

And I agree with the above poster that was basically agreeing with me. So we’re in double agreement. Every new refresh there’s a new issue. You can wait and then keep waiting or you can buy. I work with multiple departments that have deployed both 2nd and 3rd gen butterfly keyboards and none have had keyboard issues. Zero. Nada. The general feeling among these developers is that the issue is overblown and are all glad they didn’t wait

 

[Altis]

Greetings earthlings I am from the future. 2 years from now to be exact. And godddd. I wish we had keyboard issues. We have video card issues where the whole damn thing blows up! So you’re better off waiting until 2026

And I agree with the above poster that was basically agreeing with me. So we’re in double agreement. Every new refresh there’s a new issue. You can wait and then keep waiting or you can buy. I work with multiple departments that have deployed both 2nd and 3rd gen butterfly keyboards and none have had keyboard issues. Zero. Nada. The general feeling among these developers is that the issue is overblown and are all glad they didn’t wait

Or you can just buy products not prone to failure. Granted, that's getting more and more difficult as they all try to push the limits. At least some are serviceable though.

 

[Ghost31]

Or you can just buy products not prone to failure. Granted, that's getting more and more difficult as they all try to push the limits. At least some are serviceable though.

Which ones aren’t prone to failure? One of my departments down south had failures with newer XPS laptops. Then insisting on keeping windows they tried swapping for hp spectre. Didn’t work. Went all in on Microsoft and got surface books. Those had issues with cooling among other things

 

[Altis]

Which ones aren’t prone to failure? One of my departments down south had failures with newer XPS laptops. Then insisting on keeping windows they tried swapping for hp spectre. Didn’t work. Went all in on Microsoft and got surface books. Those had issues with cooling among other things

I've had good luck with ThinkPads. At least I can just replace things if they fail.

Do what you want, but given that some reviewers even have had multiple keyboard failures with their test units (such as Dave2D having 2/4 keyboard issues), I'd say the keyboard issue is not as trivial as some of you like to make it seem. It wouldn't be such a big deal if it were like other laptops where you can pop it open and just replace the keyboard.

 

[Ghost31]

I've had good luck with ThinkPads. At least I can just replace things if they fail.

Do what you want, but given that some reviewers even have had multiple keyboard failures with their test units (such as Dave2D having 2/4 keyboard issues), I'd say the keyboard issue is not as trivial as some of you like to make it seem. It wouldn't be such a big deal if it were like other laptops where you can pop it open and just replace the keyboard.

Hey man. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist as an issue. My personal gut feeling (and professional just from dealing with lots of them) is that the scale of this issue is overblown.

Just as an example: I had a home theater projector some years ago that had a problem with the bulb blowing out at the halfway mark of its lifespan. Even earlier sometimes. Projectors aren’t super popular, but on amazon there’s like 300 reviews. And then all went like how you’d expect: some had good experiences and good things to say about it, but a large percentage maybe even half of the reviews were 1 starring angry people pissed about this defect and how much it has inconvenienced their lives. THAT is what I expect to see for a defect.

You go on all the review sites. Amazon, Best Buy, b&h photo, other stores and the reviews are glowing. Everyone seems to love their MacBooks with their “horribly defective butterfly keys”. Didn’t they get the memo that they shouldn’t be leaving a positive review? Even if you sort by worst reviews at the top, you don’t see people complaining about the keyboard. I see some complaining about the low quality webcam or battery life. But where are the bad reviews for the faulty keyboard? If this was widespread, I would expect at least a good percentage to be negative. Doesn’t even have to be half. Maybe a 3rd? A 4th of all reviews? But we don’t see that.

I also don’t see it in my work life going to developer conferences and actually meeting people who use these machines as their livelihood. You would think with these people making their money off them, they would be afraid of the reliability of these devices right? If they fail, they lose money. They could even lose clients! I have no seen the fear shared in the real world as online forums.

I got to hang out with one of my friends mentors who is very well known in development circles last month and we joked about this very issue. He’s been in the industry for 30 years. His feelings on the issue? He “hasn’t seen anybody with issues” and “thinks a lot of it is media spun conformation bias. You look for a problem. You find it”

But that’s just my perspective. I still feel for those that have issues, but I wouldn’t put off buying something that I value having in my life because I hear things happening to some others on the internet

 

[Dave245]

I completely understand where you are coming from as I use a laptop for work, but in reality I think this can happen with any laptop. I’ve had plenty of keyboards go in the past it’s not unusual, especially with heavy use.

I think expectations with Apple are much higher nowadays, the criticisms are a lot worse on Apple products with far smaller problems then any other product, simply because of the premium they charge which is of course understandable, when you paying a higher price you expecting a far superior equipment.

Greetings earthlings I am from the future. 2 years from now to be exact. And godddd. I wish we had keyboard issues. We have video card issues where the whole damn thing blows up! So you’re better off waiting until 2026

And I agree with the above poster that was basically agreeing with me. So we’re in double agreement. Every new refresh there’s a new issue. You can wait and then keep waiting or you can buy. I work with multiple departments that have deployed both 2nd and 3rd gen butterfly keyboards and none have had keyboard issues. Zero. Nada. The general feeling among these developers is that the issue is overblown and are all glad they didn’t wait

Don’t get me wrong, I WANT to be wrong! I would love to buy a new MacBook! But after seeing a full thread on this forum about the keyboard issues and Apple’s apology (which they never do unless there is an actual issues) I’m just really concerned.

I’m a writer and so I rely on a keyboard daily, often for long writing sessions. If I buy the new MacBook Air or even the 2018 MacBook Pro, I end up using it for a few months and the keyboard has issues, I have to not only travel miles (there is no Apple store near me), I also have to be without a machine for a few days. I have tried out the keyboard in the Apple store last time I visited, I didn’t have an issue with how it feels, in fact I find it more accurate to write on. One of my friends has the 2016 MacBook Pro, he hasn’t had any keyboard issues either.

Would Apple really issue a public apology if there wasn’t an issue? I’m not hear to hate on Apple, in fact from previous posts of mine you will probably see that I’m a big Apple fan. I’m just trying to be realistic.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/27/18284042/apple-macbook-keyboard-apology-issues-bad-design

Also this article says that the keyboards have a 30% failure rate!

https://www.notebookcheck.net/A-wor...oard-failure-rate-of-30-percent.415595.0.html

All I can do is base my opinions and thoughts on the evidence I’ve seen so far, based on that it looks like the butterfly keyboards so far have higher failure rates than the old style keyboards.

 

[Ghost31]

Don’t get me wrong, I WANT to be wrong! I would love to buy a new MacBook! But after seeing a full thread on this forum about the keyboard issues and Apple’s apology (which they never do unless there is an actual issues) I’m just really concerned.

I’m a writer and so I rely on a keyboard daily, often for long writing sessions. If I buy the new MacBook Air or even the 2018 MacBook Pro, I end up using it for a few months and the keyboard has issues, I have to not only travel miles (there is no Apple store near me), I also have to be without a machine for a few days. I have tried out the keyboard in the Apple store last time I visited, I didn’t have an issue with how it feels, in fact I find it more accurate to write on. One of my friends has the 2016 MacBook Pro, he hasn’t had any keyboard issues either.

Would Apple really issue a public apology if there wasn’t an issue? I’m not hear to hate on Apple, in fact from previous posts of mine you will probably see that I’m a big Apple fan. I’m just trying to be realistic.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/27/18284042/apple-macbook-keyboard-apology-issues-bad-design

Also this article says that the keyboards have a 30% failure rate!

https://www.notebookcheck.net/A-wor...oard-failure-rate-of-30-percent.415595.0.html

All I can do is base my opinions and thoughts on the evidence I’ve seen so far, based on that it looks like the butterfly keyboards so far have higher failure rates than the old style keyboards.

Was that the limited “study” in which case the 30% “failure rate” was with a small group of people? Like 15 people? When I have lunch with more people than your sample size, your sample size sucks! (The study obviously. Not you)

Apple is responsive to negative PR. They’ve been this way ever since I can remember. Back in the Steve Jobs era he the company’s public face was NOT about apologizing because it was seen as a blemish on the company to admit their products weren’t always magical. When Tim Cook took over, it completely changed things. He is more responsive to public consensus and his strategy seems to be to get ahead of everyone and just apologize. Not a bad policy. But it’s hard to gauge the scale at which an issue is. Rene Ritchie did a video about it awhile back (I may have already told you since I’ve been replying to your posts for quite awhile) but they looked at the number of incident reports at apple and found they weren’t substantially higher after the butterfly keyboards were released.

And like I said: REVIEWS. Understand the consumer mind. When we buy things, our instinct is to criticize the crap out of it. Even if everything is working well! I’ve seen people blame the company for having packaging that gave them a paper cut. And people get more critical of devices as price increases. Suffice to say, people will complain more if their $2k laptop doesn’t work vs a $5 stapler. So why isn’t the general idea of “these keyboards are crap and I can’t type and this machine is terrible” reflected in reviews? Why do I see more complaints about webcam quality than keyboard issues? Isn’t that a bit strange to you??

AND expanding on the psychology of the everyday consumer, MORE consumers that write reviews will be negative reviews than positive. Why? Because how often do you have a good experience and just feel like telling websites about it? Now how often do do you have a bad experience that leaves you salty and all of a sudden you want to tell the world how pissed off you are and that X company lost a customer? Every damn time. So we should see a hell of a lot more negative reviews than we are getting. My decades working with electronics and experiencing a new gate every time a new apple product releases tell me this is an issue, but that I have a good chance of never experiencing it. A really good chance.

Just my thoughts on the matter. Wouldn’t that be funny if after typing all that a key on my keyboard started acting up. Haha nooo

 

[Dave245]

Was that the limited “study” in which case the 30% “failure rate” was with a small group of people? Like 15 people? When I have lunch with more people than your sample size, your sample size sucks! (The study obviously. Not you)

Apple is responsive to negative PR. They’ve been this way ever since I can remember. Back in the Steve Jobs era he the company’s public face was NOT about apologizing because it was seen as a blemish on the company to admit their products weren’t always magical. When Tim Cook took over, it completely changed things. He is more responsive to public consensus and his strategy seems to be to get ahead of everyone and just apologize. Not a bad policy. But it’s hard to gauge the scale at which an issue is. Rene Ritchie did a video about it awhile back (I may have already told you since I’ve been replying to your posts for quite awhile) but they looked at the number of incident reports at apple and found they weren’t substantially higher after the butterfly keyboards were released.

And like I said: REVIEWS. Understand the consumer mind. When we buy things, our instinct is to criticize the crap out of it. Even if everything is working well! I’ve seen people blame the company for having packaging that gave them a paper cut. And people get more critical of devices as price increases. Suffice to say, people will complain more if their $2k laptop doesn’t work vs a $5 stapler. So why isn’t the general idea of “these keyboards are crap and I can’t type and this machine is terrible” reflected in reviews? Why do I see more complaints about webcam quality than keyboard issues? Isn’t that a bit strange to you??

AND expanding on the psychology of the everyday consumer, MORE consumers that write reviews will be negative reviews than positive. Why? Because how often do you have a good experience and just feel like telling websites about it? Now how often do do you have a bad experience that leaves you salty and all of a sudden you want to tell the world how pissed off you are and that X company lost a customer? Every damn time. So we should see a hell of a lot more negative reviews than we are getting. My decades working with electronics and experiencing a new gate every time a new apple product releases tell me this is an issue, but that I have a good chance of never experiencing it. A really good chance.

Just my thoughts on the matter. Wouldn’t that be funny if after typing all that a key on my keyboard started acting up. Haha nooo

Yes, the link i put in my previous post. Also there was someone from the Wall Street Journal that made a video about it. I understand what you are saying, i'm just not sure that the issue isn't there. If it were overblown why would so many people be posting on the forum that's dedicated to the keyboard issue? there are a number of pages about it.

I just looked up general reviews and you are right, most people are positive about both the Macbook Pro and the Macbook Air 2018. A lot seem to like both the Air and the Macbook Pro.