Microsoft Announces Outlook for Mac is Now Free to Use

[theotherphil]

Outlook for macOS (like the iOS version) stores your account credentials and mails on Microsoft servers (also the credentials an mails from non-MS accounts). It‘s a privacy nightmare. If you care for privacy I highly recommend you: don‘t use it!!!
I‘m a little disappointed that macrumors doesn’t mention it in the article.

This is the same for almost every Mac/ iOS email client....Spark, AirMail, Canary etc.

They are free because they download your email from your provider's email servers to theirs, which is what enables all the extra cool functionality, as well as the ability for them/ AI to read your emails.

This has some interesting consequences depending on where that company is based. In the case of AirMail - Italy. Spark, in the Ukraine....I would never be able to use these clients with my work account, even though they are technically compatible with our Exchange servers. Offloading credentials/ email to a third party server is a big red flag.

The big difference with MS is my Gov. Employer has their services provided by MS anyway so my email never goes to a third party and the Outlook Apps are fully supported from a governance standpoint.

 

[JosephAW]

Way back MS explorer and outlook was the only game in town. Making a comeback. Let me check system requirements...
Meh requires Big Sur or higher. Never mind.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

So when it comes to privacy policy, your unfairly targeting eM Client. Now when it comes to the licensing issue you had with them, I never had that issue and have a similar set-up. So if they did that then I agree that is not good, but in my personal experience I never had that issue with them and it seems like a lot of other users don't either.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Thunderbird/comments/f2qzdc

https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/hj53kg

There's more to find.

Privacy policy from emclient and Airmail and Postbox is different. Not sure what the issue with Privacy Mode on Airmail is? They give the option to disable features that only works when synced to the cloud. If you don't want those features turn it off. That's how it's actually done, there's no other way.

Does emclient provide the option to disable them snooping around what email accounts I use when I provide a specific address for payment? No, not possible. So I buy and register via mymail@private.com and use the client with the address mymail@somethingelse.com, which I never provided willingly and they still use it. Well, that might not be entirely correct, because they state they're doing it in their policy:

the primary e-mail address being set up within the Applications. This data is used for purpose of better identification of the computer to allow advanced services such as Server settings feature offered in our License manager. The address can also be used for a detection of a commercial use of the Application.

If it works for you and you're willing to live with their terms, great. It doesn't work for me and others, include my colleagues from a security research group. And when I'm in doubt about something because the policy is unclear, I can always fire up Ghidra and find out. And no, Thunderbird isn't needed for a secure email client and neither is Linux, which I use on an almost daily basis for other things.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Offloading credentials/ email to a third party server is a big red flag.

If you want to use certain features, there's no way around it. But some clients allow you to opt-out of it and disable offloading credentials, which also disables some features.

I would never be able to use these clients with my work account, even though they are technically compatible with our Exchange servers.

That's really the choice of your IT then, especially if you can disable it. Being able to enable/disable it is the important part. That might not work for all (inexperienced) users though.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

My go to mail client has always been Apple Mail. Outlook Mail in Windows is an average mail client. One glaring issue I have had for several years regardless of what PC I am using is that Outlook breaks the Yahoo Mail password which requires me to re input the password and it will fail again and again. Deleting the Yahoo Mail account only solves the problem temporarily and the same problem arises.

I downloaded Outlook and here's where Apple Mail is better than Outlook. You can block contacts, unsubscribe with Apple Mail, I don't see that option in Outlook. I'll keep Outlook for now and maybe i'll find some reasons to rely on it more but so far for me Apple Mail still comes out on top.

 

[BrianBaughn]

Outlook is not at all for someone like me that uses Google for calendars and contacts…but not for email…and Office 365 for email but not for calendars or contacts.

 

[boing]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Thunderbird/comments/f2qzdc

https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/hj53kg

There's more to find.

Privacy policy from emclient and Airmail and Postbox is different. Not sure what the issue with Privacy Mode on Airmail is? They give the option to disable features that only works when synced to the cloud. If you don't want those features turn it off. That's how it's actually done, there's no other way.

Does emclient provide the option to disable them snooping around what email accounts I use when I provide a specific address for payment? No, not possible. So I buy and register via mymail@private.com and use the client with the address mymail@somethingelse.com, which I never provided willingly and they still use it. Well, that might not be entirely correct, because they state they're doing it in their policy:


If it works for you and you're willing to live with their terms, great. It doesn't work for me and others, include my colleagues from a security research group. And when I'm in doubt about something because the policy is unclear, I can always fire up Ghidra and find out. And no, Thunderbird isn't needed for a secure email client and neither is Linux, which I use on an almost daily basis for other things.

Yes they are different, but my point is they are collecting similar information. For example, AirMail says "Personal Data may be freely provided by the User, or, in case of Usage Data, collected automatically when using this Application.". Additionally it says "Unless specified otherwise, all Data requested by this Application is mandatory and failure to provide this Data may make it impossible for this Application to provide its services.". Not sure if that sounds much better then anything else. They all have their privacy issues if they are a proprietary product.

The problem is I suspect Privacy Mode is disabled by default. The fact any email client has an option to store the email account credentials and data on any cloud system is a no go for me. That is the problem I have with it, and would never use AirMail for that simple reason. The problem is a lot of email clients do this unknowingly by the user when they install it and you have to opt out which most don't even know is an option since they don't even know it is being stored in the cloud. That practice I don't agree with at all.

I suspect they do what they do is because they want to make sure their software is used for non-commercial reasons for their free license and paid for otherwise. I paid for the software and fine with their terms which don't sound any worst then any other proprietary email client.

I didn't say needed for security, I said privacy. I say that since Linux and Thunderbird are open source where the code can be analyzed, and they don't have a for profit incentive when it comes to adding stuff to check on licensing or obtain additional information for marketing. That alone makes Linux and Thunderbird the best bet for the privacy conscious individuals.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Way back MS explorer and outlook was the only game in town. Making a comeback. Let me check system requirements...
Meh requires Big Sur or higher. Never mind.

How the hell are you not on at least Big Sur yet? I hardly know anyone still on that dumpster fire Catalina or below (well okay that's a lie my upcoming work iMac will be on Mojave) but I digress with the fast adoption rate the Apple Silicon Macs have been having.

 

[Solomani]

Apple Mail does include a junk mail filter, which can be enabled or disabled in the Mail preferences. As you might know, it's also possible to create custom rules to block certain addresses or content, or sort specific content with spammy phrases or unknown senders to the trash.

View attachment 2169411

Whether an e-mail client "blocks" an e-mail it flags as spam, or instead "sends" it to a spam folder is a matter of semantics, not of functionality. An e-mail client has to receive and analyze an e-mail (at least by parsing the headers) before it can actually decide to either delete it (meaning send to the trash or to the spam folder on the server, in the case of IMAP) or else put it in a different folder.

As far as spam reporting goes, who would you want it to report spam to? Apple? The sender's domain administrator? A third party?

Have you ever tried SpamSieve, a plugin for Apple Mail?

I use the MS Outlook spam reporting all the time. And it seems to send it directly to the Microsoft domain admin, which makes sense since Microsoft/Hotmail/Outlook email server domains have been around forever (long before Apple iCloud existed), so the Microsoft domain administration is a HUGE but invisible service. When I report, I can tell the domain admin the reason the offensive email should be blocked: terrorism (or links to terrorism), links to porn websites, phishing, non-consensual imagery, etc.

Also, whenever I report to the Microsoft domain admin... within seconds I get an auto-reply back from them, stamped by Microsoft, confirming that my report has been received on their end.

Apple does not seem to provide any such service.

I'll give SpamSieve a look. Thanks.

 

[HDJulie]

Not quite sure what you're asking, but the new look has been out for quite awhile now if that's what you're wanting. There should be a toggle switch to turn it on. Or if you're wanting to use other accounts in Outlook, you could have done that already since Outlook would have been unlocked with your 365 subscription.

As for your version and the version found in the App Store, they are essentially the same. The one in the App Store is also 16.70. The only thing different is how they're installed and updated. Sounds like you installed using Microsoft's installer, so you need to use their update tool. If you install through the App Store, then updates are installed through there. I don't like dealing with Microsoft's update tool, so I have installed the Office apps from the App Store (which also works with my enterprise 365 subscription.)

I, too, have the Office 365 version on the Mac, version 16.71. I can't switch to the "New" version of the app because it doesn't support local folders (pst files) of which I have 20+ years worth. It also would not support custom domain emails, & I think it forces IMAP. For awhile, you couldn't even create contacts. Has any of that changed?

 

[jchap]

Also, whenever I report to the Microsoft domain admin... within seconds I get an auto-reply back from them, stamped by Microsoft, confirming that my report has been received on their end.

Apple does not seem to provide any such service.

Interesting—I wasn't aware that Microsoft offered such a service with Outlook. On the Windows version of Outlook 2021 at least, I can right-click an e-mail and mark "Block Sender", but I should test this out on actual junk.

I can see the advantages of Microsoft operating a centralized spam address database. There is a lot of e-mail address impersonation and IP address spoofing out there, though, so the filter and reporting system would have to examine the offending e-mail header closely and match it with known patterns.

What with all the spam and the uncertainties of e-mail, whether your e-mail has been delivered and whether it has been read midway by a forwarding server and so on, it's amazing that many of us still rely on e-mail. It is handy for what it does, admittedly, and it's a lot more universally supported and flexible than messaging is. The "younger generation" has little use for it, though...

 

[NorrisKillsKids]

I, like others, must be tripping balls because I've been using it for free for quite some time for my @outlook and my @gmail. On my phone and from the mac app store? At least for months...and I don't currently sub to office 365.

Not really getting what's new or different here. Are ads gone in the inbox? I mean the UI doesn't look like the pics so there's that I guess, mine looks diff but mine is 16.70. But maybe that's just the focus UI that's coming, the main pic looks the same.

Maybe because I was a subscriber 2 years ago or something made it always free for me? Confusing.

 

[Solomani]

Interesting—I wasn't aware that Microsoft offered such a service with Outlook. On the Windows version of Outlook 2021 at least, I can right-click an e-mail and mark "Block Sender", but I should test this out on actual junk.

I can see the advantages of Microsoft operating a centralized spam address database. There is a lot of e-mail address impersonation and IP address spoofing out there, though, so the filter and reporting system would have to examine the offending e-mail header closely and match it with known patterns.

What with all the spam and the uncertainties of e-mail, whether your e-mail has been delivered and whether it has been read midway by a forwarding server and so on, it's amazing that many of us still rely on e-mail. It is handy for what it does, admittedly, and it's a lot more universally supported and flexible than messaging is. The "younger generation" has little use for it, though...

Here is what the Microsoft Outlook reporting form looks like:

Yes, somehow the most irritating and relentless spammers/scammers are from foreign country domains... China, Russia, Nigeria, Kazakhstan, etc.

 

[mac_hack_attack]

Translation - No one uses this thing. We can't charge for it.

 

[olavsu1]

When I was still stupid, I used the default email clients of the operating systems (Outlook Express, KMail and similar). since then, when the HTML capabilities of e-mail clients started to be abused (unsolicited advertising, viruses). I moved to PINE. It gutted out all the scripts and left plain text. Pine was in use as long as it still agreed to run. Thunderbird is now used and the operating system's default e-mail clients not be used at all.

 

[BP9906]

Ads. I bet it’s for targeting ads. Nothing is free.

 

[olavsu1]

Ads. I bet it’s for targeting ads. Nothing is free.

Not only that. Outlook is now a time management system. It requires a database. Who control that database? Are it local or not? Do you want to tell strangers about your (future) activities?

 

[germinator]

It's just crap. No thank you.

 

[XXPP]

no, thanks.

 

[svish]

Great to hear that it is free now.

 

[Tagbert]

Outlook is not at all for someone like me that uses Google for calendars and contacts…but not for email…and Office 365 for email but not for calendars or contacts.

It is a package deal.

I use Outlook for work email, calendar, and contacts. I use others for private use. I prefer to keep the contexts separate.

 

[Gradly]

Its not useful for me because they are still working on the on-prem Exchange support which is weird taking that long time

 

[jchap]

Here is what the Microsoft Outlook reporting form looks like:

Hmmm, I noted that the form is prefaced with the text, "How does this content violate the Microsoft Services Agreement?" I haven't read that agreement, but it seems that it's referring to content that resides on, is hosted or is generated by a Microsoft service. The app itself (Outlook) is not generating the spam e-mail—it's merely rendering it. So, I would tend to think that this feature would not apply to content on, say, a non-Microsoft-owned server, such as Gmail, iCloud or your Web hosting service. If it does, then that begs the question: is Microsoft using Outlook to copy and store the content of your e-mail inboxes hosted by other non-Microsoft services as well, to their own servers? That would seem a bit roundabout for Microsoft to do that, but I do wonder how this feature applies to non-Microsoft e-mail providers, if at all.

 

[johnsolo]

I just use Edison Mail, which is superior to both Outlook and Apple Mail.

 

[Bodhitree]

I just use Apple’s Mail, Calendar, Contacts. For me the big deal is iCloud and OS integration. I rely on being able to create an appointment or a contact on my iphone or ipad, and then seeing it on my Mac. If I were to switch to Outlook, I’d probably have to use Outlook on all my platforms, and I’d end up using Microsoft’s servers. What would then happen to OS integration such as clicking on a time in a WhatsApp message in order to automatically create a Calendar appointment?