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Microsoft is changing the game. How will Apple and M chips fair?

Bodhitree said:
@BigPotatoLobbyist anything that’s known about M2 let alone M3 is speculation and hearsay, just as what we know about Nuvia’s cores is pre-production rumors. It doesn’t make the slightest difference to my buying behaviour and I am certainly not going to worry about it, I’m not that invested in tech. Let’s just wait and see how it turns out.

The thing about M1’s success is, it’s been a great product for the Apple faithful, but in terms of real growth against the PC market has it been a great success? We have seen the Mac business grow by a few percent compared to the PC market’s general decline, but has M1 really moved the needle that much?
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The needle it moves isn’t on a gauge that is intentionally ignoring what Apple is continuing to do with it’s hardware. MS astroturfing to push a dev kit and comparing it to the Mac while ignoring Apple’s evolving ecosystem misses the big picture. Apple has almost 2x revenue and net profit than MS for a reason.
 
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Bodhitree said:
@BigPotatoLobbyist anything that’s known about M2 let alone M3 is speculation and hearsay, just as what we know about Nuvia’s cores is pre-production rumors. It doesn’t make the slightest difference to my buying behaviour and I am certainly not going to worry about it, I’m not that invested in tech. Let’s just wait and see how it turns out.

The thing about M1’s success is, it’s been a great product for the Apple faithful, but in terms of real growth against the PC market has it been a great success? We have seen the Mac business grow by a few percent compared to the PC market’s general decline, but has M1 really moved the needle that much?
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Agreed
 
I think the M1 was a gamble, to shift the debate from just performance — which will always be important — to performance-per-watt, and its been somewhat successful in changing the laptop from a device which runs for 3-4 hours at full load to a device with in practice “all day battery life”.

Of course PC manufacturers hit back with claims of 15 hour battery life and Intel’s EVO initiative for light, fast and capable devices. It seems that worked, in keeping people in the Intel-Microsoft embrace. Apple’s M1 laptops may not have sold as many as perhaps they were expecting, although they sold well and triggered a bit of an upgrade cycle among the Mac user crowd. I think it’s very interesting that the iPad Air got the M1, as if they had slightly over-ordered the M1 chips.

But as you were saying @BigPotatoLobbyist one manufacturer’s battery life claim is not the others. Various marketing tricks are used, and life under full load especially on Intel chips is noticeably shorter. It’s a marketing problem, how do you make clear to people your laptop’s performance under full load, and how do you make them realise that is an important statistic?
 
Apple is closer to the truth than PC...i never got those claims...not in my surface or dell laptops
Light usage always was around 60% of the claims, while in heavy duty close to 2 hours
Light usage on M1 SoC i always got around 80-90% from that claim in light usage and around 4 hours on heavy duty
I saw an big Alienware that can also be treated as a desktop thanks to the weight and dimensions that never reach more than 1 hour and a half of heavy duty...
PC manufactures cannot do more since the dGpu are more hungry and the battery inside for most laptops tops 100-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery
 
Microsoft isn't changing the game. It's playing the same game as it has always played.
They've always been a 'me too' company that has copied other successful ideas, sometimes with success, but often with failure.
The product that started Microsoft, DOS, was a copy of 1970's CPM. Windows was designed to make PC's more like Macs. Office started by copying popular business software such as Wordperfect and Lotus 123. They tried to copy the iPod with the disastrous Zune and their attempt to replicate the iTunes music store was a failure too.
Logitech were popular with their keyboards and mice, so Microsoft had to copy them too, and had some success there. The tried phones too, several times, but couldn't complete - even destroying Nokia in the attempt. Nintendo and Sony had popular games consoles, so Microsoft decided to compete there too, this time having a major win with the Xbox.
Bing also tried to compete with Google but, again, that wasn't particularly successful.

So now ARM is increasing in popularity, Microsoft feel that they have to make some effort to enter the market. So far, it's looks to me like another of their half-hearted efforts that might not go anywhere, but it may pick up momentum.
 
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Honestly, there's nothing earth-shattering here. If anything I'm surprised Microsoft didn't do something like this earlier.

I imagine their plan is to get developers to start considering an ARM future and to get them to figure out the benefits of such a package. But there is no way in hell that they're just going to up and 'ditch' x86 any time now or in the near future. There is just too much legacy hardware and software hanging around to make that transition, which is the odd drawback of being the dominant computer platform.

I'm sure they'll try a lot of new initiatives and yes, there will be plenty of Microsoft M-series clones, but the transition won't be effective until ARM takes a majority of Windows' market share. That's going to be a very long time...
 
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Mike Boreham said:
Just to update a small point here....Silicon macs have not depended on Insider builds since last year. Release version Windows 11 is downloadable from Microsoft and activates with a Win 10 license.
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Where is Win11 ARM downloadable from on Microsoft’s website? I have searched Microsoft‘s website and cannot find a direct download link.
 
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VineRider said:
Where is Win11 ARM downloadable from on Microsoft’s website? I have searched Microsoft‘s website and cannot find a direct download link.
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It is on the "Create New" page within Parallels app:

Screenshot 2022-05-31 at 15.19.57.png
 
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Mike Boreham said:
It is on the "Create New" page within Parallels app:

View attachment 2011671
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Thanks - I've seen this as I have a Parallels subscription. I was hoping you had discovered the direct download link from Microsoft.

I wonder where Parallels is linking to get this image. I have asked Parallels support and they assure me it is directly from Microsoft, but they cannot (or will not) provide the direct link from Microsoft.

I prefer to download any OS that I am going to be using directly from the company that creates that OS (as opposed to a middleman like Parallels). I do trust Parallels and have used them extensively in the past, but it's a bit disconcerting that they will not expose the location of the download so you can directly download the image from MS, outside of Parallels.


Thanks for the response!
VineRider
 
VineRider said:
Thanks - I've seen this as I have a Parallels subscription. I was hoping you had discovered the direct download link from Microsoft.

I wonder where Parallels is linking to get this image. I have asked Parallels support and they assure me it is directly from Microsoft, but they cannot (or will not) provide the direct link from Microsoft.

I prefer to download any OS that I am going to be using directly from the company that creates that OS (as opposed to a middleman like Parallels). I do trust Parallels and have used them extensively in the past, but it's a bit disconcerting that they will not expose the location of the download so you can directly download the image from MS, outside of Parallels.


Thanks for the response!
VineRider
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I suppose you have tried the uupdump.net route? I haven't been there since Parallels put the download option in the app. I understand uupdump is direct from Microsoft.
 
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VineRider said:
Thanks - I've seen this as I have a Parallels subscription. I was hoping you had discovered the direct download link from Microsoft.

I wonder where Parallels is linking to get this image. I have asked Parallels support and they assure me it is directly from Microsoft, but they cannot (or will not) provide the direct link from Microsoft.

I prefer to download any OS that I am going to be using directly from the company that creates that OS (as opposed to a middleman like Parallels). I do trust Parallels and have used them extensively in the past, but it's a bit disconcerting that they will not expose the location of the download so you can directly download the image from MS, outside of Parallels.


Thanks for the response!
VineRider
Click to expand...
If you sign up for the insider program you can get it. Google search "Windows 11 ARM download" and the first link is the download page direct from Microsoft. This is what I used to install Windows 11 on my M1 Max.

 
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jav6454 said:
Quick question, is Parallels subscription only now? Looked over to see and I don't see the one-time purchase.
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Yes, it's subscription only. Although I imagine that you can keep using it even after the subscription expires, you just can't upgrade and get any new features.
 
jav6454 said:
Well, that sucks. I was trying to not get Office for Mac as I have read several bad reviews about M1 support.
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No it is not subscription only. The subscription option gives you some more features like the ability to use more cores, and maybe a few other things. I buy outright and have no issues running Win7, 10 or 11. Not heavy use for me, and that might be something to consider if you need more power.

Buy Parallels Desktop for Mac | Apple M1, M2, M-series compatible

Get our latest version with over 20 powerful new features to boost performance and productivity. Optimized for Apple M1 and M2 series chips and ready for macOS Ventura (when released).
www.parallels.com www.parallels.com
 

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mi7chy said:
8GB vRAM and 4 vCPUs is useless though and should be a free tier.
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Not really useless, it all depends on your needs. I don't need heavy power for my Win VM. I run some old RIP software and have on occasion run Corel in a VM, both have run fine with no issues and I would not even say Corel ran slow. Yes 8 gigs of RAM and 4 cores might be useless to some, but it won't be for everyone.
 
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wonderings said:
No it is not subscription only. The subscription option gives you some more features like the ability to use more cores, and maybe a few other things. I buy outright and have no issues running Win7, 10 or 11. Not heavy use for me, and that might be something to consider if you need more power.

Buy Parallels Desktop for Mac | Apple M1, M2, M-series compatible

Get our latest version with over 20 powerful new features to boost performance and productivity. Optimized for Apple M1 and M2 series chips and ready for macOS Ventura (when released).
www.parallels.com www.parallels.com
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Interesting as in the US store I didn't see that option.
 
jav6454 said:
Will do. Right now I'm debating with either the Mac version or get Windows/Parallels. Although to be honest, I'm already leaning towards the Mac version.
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I like VMWare Workstation more than parallels on anything, but Parallels does support the M1 type better for now, but I don't really run Windows on it. I use my Windows PC and Intel Mac for Windows VM's and just access them from my Mac Studio.
 
mi7chy said:
Free VMware Workstation Player offers 128GB vRAM and 32 vCPUs. For $99, Parallels should at least offer 16GB vRAM and 8 vCPUs.
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How does it stack up feature wise? A big thing with Parallels that I love is coherence mode. I can run my Windows app side by side with my Mac apps without needing a separate window to view Windows in.
 
wonderings said:
How does it stack up feature wise? A big thing with Parallels that I love is coherence mode. I can run my Windows app side by side with my Mac apps without needing a separate window to view Windows in.
Click to expand...


Historically, Fusion has had this feature with some caveats.

Switch to Unity View

You can switch to Unity view from an application open in another view.
docs.vmware.com docs.vmware.com

Works with Windows and requires VMware tools installed in the Windows instance.

With no "official support" for Windows a full set of VMware Tools for Windows Arm probably is an issue. This "workstation" virtualization is really a 'side business' for VMWare. The bulk of the company's revenues is elsewhere. Part of business is maintaining a good partnership with Microsoft. So features like "push button and tap dance around MS licensing" probably are not going to show up.

Even more so if Broadcomm gets VMWare. If Apple's requirement to solely use their hypervisor framework is costing VMWare lost of money in forked code lines , then there is even bigger problems than "Unity mode". If Broadcomm gets control of where feature set is going. ( cost savings and revenue generation is going to move to top of list. ) . Decent chance the mac virtualization market gets less competitive. Either pricing goes up all around or down to one major player; neither one of those is good for end users.
 
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