Mission Control - Still A Failure

[klaxamazoo]

You can also enter Expose, the CMD-Tab or use the dock and without leaving Expose, it will switch the windows being shown from App to App.

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An often misused word. Workflow is about daisy chaining tasks together, not about the keyboard/mouse/trackpad short cuts to do so.

In programming, a typical workflow would be :

- checkout source from the repository
- open a file in an editor and add/modify code to it.
- run it through its build environnement to rebuild a binary for debugging
- run it through the debugger to make sure it's behaving as it should
- repeat 1 to 3 as many times as it takes to solve Bug Report or Change Request
- commit source modifications back to the repository, tagging the new release along the way
- run it through its build environnement to produce a release build
- distribute the build to Q&A

That's a workflow. That workflow can be accomplished on any number of platforms, for any number of applications for any projects. Listening to some people here, a workflow sounds like it's :

- cmd-tab to application
- open file
- All Windows Expose to find the duck picture
- All Windows Expose to find the flower picture
- Hit spaces to move some windows around your desktops

Where do you guys actually get any Work done in these Workflows ?

I can get my work done on OS X, Windows, Linux, no matter what GUI/Editor/shortcuts/input devices I have. That's because my workflow is not something that is tied to UI candy for switching applications and moving windows around. My workflow is a flow of tasks. These tasks might differ in how they are accomplished, but the tasks themselves remain the same. I just adjust to the platform instead of trying to adjust the platform to myself.

Workflow includes how the work gets done. If you had to go into Terminal and type in a 15 pin identifier that was randomized and unique every time you wanted to send an e-mail it would interrupt the flow of you work whenever you had to send an e-mail. Would e-mails get sent? Sure, but it would be a poor design and worthy of criticism.

Mission Control adds additional steps and complexity to what was a seamless experience. Mission Control has severe deficiencies but you never address those deficiencies in your defense of Mission Control, you just say that it doesn't matter because the end result is the same. That is like saying eating at McDonalds is the same as eating at Farm Burger because you aren't hungry after you've eaten.

Process Matters, Quality Matters, Experience Matters, Details Matter. Read the Steve Jobs book, you will see a person whose entire existence was consumed by those principles.

Windows != OSX != Linux != MS-DOS just because you managed to get your work done.

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Heck, most of MacRumors user base isn't tech savvy. Most of them are Image editors/Video editors/Photographers who have no clue how a computer actually works, what a OS actually is (they think the GUI layer is the OS, they have no idea of everything else that sits between those pixels and the underlying hardware) or even what a Profession is (thinking Image editors/Video editors/Photographers are the only professionals out there).

The purpose of a personal computer is to react to the user. Apple's Developer Documentation clearly shows that the main focus of OSX is to respond to user events. While there is a butt-load of amazing programs running behind the scenes, the ultimate purpose of a personal computer is to give the user the experience the user needs. Whether that is making an spreadsheet, running a server, protecting the file system, etc., the ultimate requirement is that the User's needs are fulfilled. One of those needs to have the experience of using the computer be seamless and without needless hassles.

Another need is that the sophisticated workflows of Image Editors, Photographers, etc. be enabled without knowing the details of the underlying OS. It should "just work"

 

[Paradoxally]

Process Matters, Quality Matters, Experience Matters, Details Matter. Read the Steve Jobs book, you will see a person whose entire existence was consumed by those principles.

Windows != OSX != Linux != MS-DOS just because you managed to get your work done.

Extremely so. Workflow isn't just about when you do, where you do, or what you do, it's about how you do the tasks you need to do.

There are tasks I do on Mac that aren't the same experience on Windows, and consequently are different on any Linux distro as well.

Everything is involved in some way. Everything you do, or use, has influence on the final result. If I can get a task done in half an hour using Snow Leopard, why should I learn how to adapt to a quirky workflow on Lion that doesn't even work as well as it should?

e.g.:
Does it show all apps in all spaces in a birds-eye view? NO.

And this is critical for me. I mean, we're all different, and no one can really state that everyone has to love Exposé/Spaces or Mission Control. The problem is that no one is giving a choice, and when faced with that option, I prefer to stick with what just works.

 

[KnightWRX]

Workflow

*sigh*. Look up Process vs Procedure.

A workflow is a process. What you describe is a procedure. Find a different word, you're not talking about workflows.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

Workflow is a term used to describe the tasks, procedural steps, organizations or people involved, required input and output information, and tools needed for each step in a business process.

workflow is just as much the procedure you use as the process you are doing.

They are not mutually exclusive.

workflow
English
Noun

workflow (plural workflows)

1. The rate at which a flow of work takes place
2. (business) The rate at which a flow of work takes place; A process and/or procedure in which tasks are completed. It may be defined with a flowchart to define actors, actions, results, decisions, and action paths

 

[klaxamazoo]

*sigh*. Look up Process vs Procedure.

A workflow is a process. What you describe is a procedure. Find a different word, you're not talking about workflows.

Fine. Mission Control's procedure sucks and negatively impacts my throughput as work passes through its sequence of processes from initialization to completion.

Mission Control is an inefficient Window Manager with a number of glaring issues that have been listed many times across many threads. If you want to defend Mission Control, I suggest addressing the issues instead focusing on parlance.

 

[Jagardn]

Fine. Mission Control's procedure sucks and negatively impacts my throughput as work passes through its sequence of processes from initialization to completion.

Mission Control is an inefficient Window Manager with a number of glaring issues that have been listed many times across many threads. If you want to defend Mission Control, I suggest addressing the issues instead focusing on parlance.

What issues?
If he is defending it, then he may feel there are no issues to focus on.

 

[klaxamazoo]

What issues?
If he is defending it, then he may feel there are no issues to focus on.

The issues have been clearly listed throughout this thread and many more threads like it. I suggest you start by looking over the first page of the thread.

 

[heisenberg123]

OP not sure i understand you issue esspecially based on your example, everythings looks neat and organized and I could find anything in your example nothing is hidden or too small based on lack of space

the thumbnails overlap the wallpaper and the grey board they are not confined to the wallpaper only so why would the icons be bigger if the grey was not there?

the top row is not just for desktops its to show what apps are running in lion full screen, and who ways most people dont use other spaces or desktops?

sure you might be right if you have 5+ windows of the same app running it might be hard to distinguish them from each other in mission control vs exposse but now you suggesting most people running 5+ windows of the same app?

so you thing nobody uses more than 1 desktop but everybody runs 5+ windows of the same app? sounds like you want a custom OS

 

[pmz]

Fine. Mission Control's procedure sucks and negatively impacts my throughput as work passes through its sequence of processes from initialization to completion.

Mission Control is an inefficient Window Manager with a number of glaring issues that have been listed many times across many threads. If you want to defend Mission Control, I suggest addressing the issues instead focusing on parlance.

The reality is, its not as bad as you and others pretend it is.

Beyond that, while it may seem "bad" for you and a few others, the overwhelming majority see it as a huge improvement over 10.6 & Expose.

In my own opinion, I think Mission Control could be slightly tweaked, but for the most part work very very well....if you have a trackpad.

I work exclusively with the Magic Trackpad and built-in trackpad, which gives me every Apple gesture available.

On occasion, I use the Magic Mouse, which severely limits my access to mission control features due to the limit of 2 finger gestures. I don't know how anyone could use Lion and a Magic Mouse as their primary setup, and still navigate Mission Control with any success.

 

[klaxamazoo]

The reality is, its not as bad as you and others pretend it is.

Beyond that, while it may seem "bad" for you and a few others, the overwhelming majority see it as a huge improvement over 10.6 & Expose.

In my own opinion, I think Mission Control could be slightly tweaked, but for the most part work very very well....if you have a trackpad.

I work exclusively with the Magic Trackpad and built-in trackpad, which gives me every Apple gesture available.

On occasion, I use the Magic Mouse, which severely limits my access to mission control features due to the limit of 2 finger gestures. I don't know how anyone could use Lion and a Magic Mouse as their primary setup, and still navigate Mission Control with any success.

I wasn't aware I was pretending. Mission Control sucks.

1) Exactly how is not being able to see the content of only one Space at a time better?

2) Why are overlapping windows that still overlap and hide content when "spread" better exactly?

3) Why is having to play peek-a-boo using the Spacebar better?

4) Why is having to use App Expose, which takes you out of Mission Control and makes it so that you can't move your Window to another Space without Re-invoking Mission Control better?

5) Why is repeatedly swiping to move between you Spaces always better than being able to see everything?

6) Why are small views of Spaces better than having the ability to see everything at once?

7) Why should finding Windows be a game of hide-n-seek. Exactly how is this better?

Sure, gestures are nice and convenient, but Mission Control sucks at Window Management.

Luckily, ReSpaceApp will provide a 3rd party solution and, hopefully, make my MacBook Air just as productive as my MacBook Pro.

 

[heisenberg123]

I wasn't aware I was pretending. Mission Control sucks.

1) Exactly how is not being able to see the content of only one Space at a time better?

2) Why are overlapping windows that still overlap and hide content when "spread" better exactly?

3) Why is having to play peek-a-boo using the Spacebar better?

4) Why is having to use App Expose, which takes you out of Mission Control and makes it so that you can't move your Window to another Space without Re-invoking Mission Control better?

5) Why is repeatedly swiping to move between you Spaces always better than being able to see everything?

6) Why are small views of Spaces better than having the ability to see everything at once?

7) Why should finding Windows be a game of hide-n-seek. Exactly how is this better?

Sure, gestures are nice and convenient, but Mission Control sucks at Window Management.

Luckily, ReSpaceApp will provide a 3rd party solution and, hopefully, make my MacBook Air just as productive as my MacBook Pro.

did you just say the 1 thing you dislike 7 different ways?

 

[klaxamazoo]

did you just say the 1 thing you dislike 7 different ways?

No, each one is different. Some detail with problems specific to the implementation: can't see more than one Space at a time. Windows overlap, etc. While others detail problems with the workflow caused by MC's implementation, i.e. peek-a-boo, can't move Windows to different Spaces as easily.

 

[heisenberg123]

No, each one is different. Some detail with problems specific to the implementation: can't see more than one Space at a time. Windows overlap, etc. While others detail problems with the workflow caused by MC's implementation, i.e. peek-a-boo, can't move Windows to different Spaces as easily.

but ultimately its the overlaping of windows that make up all 7 of your issues

 

[klaxamazoo]

but ultimately its the overlaping of windows that make up all 7 of your issues

4/7 are problems associated with overlapping windows

if you take the time to read, the other 3/7 are problems associated with only being able to see one Space at a time.

Mission Control would be fine if you could fully spread out the Windows and if you could actually see what is going on across all you Spaces.

And yes, I do routinely have more than 5 windows from the same application open at a time. I also run 20+ Applications and 40 - 60 Windows at time across two displays with 4 Spaces per display. 10.5 Expose/Spaces handled this much content with ease. Mission Control fails and is only good for limited usage.

 

[heisenberg123]

4/7 are problems associated with overlapping windows

if you take the time to read, the other 3/7 are problems associated with only being able to see one Space at a time.

Mission Control would be fine if you could fully spread out the Windows and if you could actually see what is going on across all you Spaces.

And yes, I do routinely have more than 5 windows from the same application open at a time. I also run 20+ Applications and 40 - 60 Windows at time across two displays with 4 Spaces per display. 10.5 Expose/Spaces handled this much content with ease. Mission Control fails and is only good for limited usage.

so you have 2 issues with mission control not 7?

 

[klaxamazoo]

Yes. Two root issues that result in seven poor processes. I didn't say there were seven issues, I poised seven process issues that have yet to be addressed by anyone that likes Mission Control. Not that difficult of a concept to get a handle on.

Once again, nobody can explain why those seven poorly thought out processes provide a superior user experience in Lion.

 

[heisenberg123]

Yes. Two root issues that result in seven poor processes. Not that difficult of a concept to get a handle on.

Once again, nobody can explain why those seven poorly thought out processes provide a superior user experience in Lion.

well for someone like you that runs as many apps and windows I can see your point, mission control is tiddy and neat for people who only have 2-3 windows for 5-6 apps running.

with mission control you can have 18 windows diplayed neatly on 6 stacks which to me is nicer to look than 18 little tumbnails.

 

[klaxamazoo]

well for someone like you that runs as many apps and windows I can see your point, mission control is tiddy and neat for people who only have 2-3 windows for 5-6 apps running.

with mission control you can have 18 windows diplayed neatly on 6 stacks which to me is nicer to look than 18 little tumbnails.

I agree that there are some great advantages of stacking Windows of an App together. But the problem is the poor implementation of the Spreading of the Windows, they need to spread apart such that they don't overlap that way I could actually see things. Modifying that would go a long way towards making Mission Control a suitable (for people like me) replacement for Expose/Spaces.

All Apple needs to do is fix the spreading issue and come up with some way to show me what is going on all across my computer in a manner that was as simple and fast as Expose/Spaces, i.e. two mouse movements to see everything, not 4 - 8 swipes and flicking my head back and forth between my displays.

And before people say App Expose, no that doesn't work very well because:
1) it pulls you out of Mission Control so now you can't organize your windows
2) it removes the context of what Windows/Applications were around the content
3) Is yet another set of Animations that are distracting and take up valuable time

 

[baryon]

You guys need to understand that the fact that many of us hate Mission Control doesn't make it a gigantic problem. I can live with Mission Control, but the thing is we live in a world where we get to experience a lot of things, there's lots of choice and fast-paced evolution of software and hardware. Once you've experienced something, you really miss it once it's taken away from you.

In 2007, there were no smartphones. It was just 5 years ago, it's not that long. If someone would take away everyone's smartphones, I bet everyone would complain, a lot, and it would be a huge problem. Yet 5 years ago everyone was happy.

I don't need good window management to be happy and to get my stuff done. But once I've experienced it, it kind of sucks to have to taken away, for no reason. If Apple got this far and made an amazing window management system, what made them say "Hey, you know what? Let's get rid of this!"?

I use Windows all the time, and it always baffles me how there's almost no way to manage windows. They're just there and you have to pretty much Alt + Tab your way through them, just like 15 years ago. It's no big deal really, but it's funny and annoying how bad it is knowing how good it could be.

 

[Paradoxally]

I use Windows all the time, and it always baffles me how there's almost no way to manage windows. They're just there and you have to pretty much Alt + Tab your way through them, just like 15 years ago. It's no big deal really, but it's funny and annoying how bad it is knowing how good it could be.

Well, there's something called the Superbar, and it works A LOT better than the Dock on the Mac.

Who Alt-Tabs on Windows? Really. I'm a power user on Mac AND Windows and that's such a waste of time. When I want a window, I invoke Mission Control/go to the Dock on Mac or go to the Superbar on Windows 7. So much faster.

And now Windows 8 is coming and pretty much killing off that concept so...

 

[wikus]

The reality is, its not as bad as you and others pretend it is.

Beyond that, while it may seem "bad" for you and a few others, the overwhelming majority see it as a huge improvement over 10.6 & Expose.

In my own opinion, I think Mission Control could be slightly tweaked, but for the most part work very very well....if you have a trackpad.

I work exclusively with the Magic Trackpad and built-in trackpad, which gives me every Apple gesture available.

On occasion, I use the Magic Mouse, which severely limits my access to mission control features due to the limit of 2 finger gestures. I don't know how anyone could use Lion and a Magic Mouse as their primary setup, and still navigate Mission Control with any success.

So basically, everyone that doesnt use a trackpad should shut up and deal with Mission Control's shortcomings?

Do you have any idea how arrogant that sounds? Essentially your logic is; everyone should abandon the mouse because Apple introduced the magic trackpad.

Do you have any idea how many people prefer a mouse over an inaccurate trackpad?

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*sigh*. Look up Process vs Procedure.

A workflow is a process. What you describe is a procedure. Find a different word, you're not talking about workflows.

Dude, give it a rest, youre getting hung up on semantics. Just accept the fact that some will call it workflow, others will call it productivity. Youre battle with words doesnt matter.

The real problem is that *all app windows at once* was removed in Mission Control and its hindered many peoples ability to get work done EFFICIENTLY.

 

[Paradoxally]

So basically, everyone that doesnt use a trackpad should shut up and deal with Mission Control's shortcomings?

Do you have any idea how arrogant that sounds? Essentially your logic is; everyone should abandon the mouse because Apple introduced the magic trackpad.

Do you have any idea how many people prefer a mouse over an inaccurate trackpad?

It did seem a little arrogant to me too. It's like those people who said that the inverted scrolling was good. It IS, on a trackpad. But I'm on a mouse, with a wheel that I've been using for years. And then they just shove inverted scrolling on people as the default. What is this, a goddamn flight simulator?

I know that you can change the settings, but it's just so stupid that when you plug in a mouse, the scrolling is STILL inverted. It only makes sense if you're on a trackpad.

I prefer a mouse over a trackpad for a lot of reasons. One, gaming (on Windows, of course). You can't play without a mouse. Anything that requires precision (Photoshop, etc...).

The only things that trackpads are good for are surfing the web and browsing though picture albums and stuff. Light tasks, basically.

Since Mission Control favors a trackpad-based usage, it's noticeably flawed for people who use a mouse. And that's about 95% of the world who use computers.

 

[wikus]

It did seem a little arrogant to me too. It's like those people who said that the inverted scrolling was good. It IS, on a trackpad. But I'm on a mouse, with a wheel that I've been using for years. And then they just shove inverted scrolling on people as the default. What is this, a goddamn flight simulator?

I know that you can change the settings, but it's just so stupid that when you plug in a mouse, the scrolling is STILL inverted. It only makes sense if you're on a trackpad.

I prefer a mouse over a trackpad for a lot of reasons. One, gaming (on Windows, of course). You can't play without a mouse. Anything that requires precision (Photoshop, etc...).

The only things that trackpads are good for are surfing the web and browsing though picture albums and stuff. Light tasks, basically.

Since Mission Control favors a trackpad-based usage, it's noticeably flawed for people who use a mouse. And that's about 95% of the world who use computers.

For over 10 years I was a desktop user, had a PowerMac and Mac Pro for 9 years and switched to a laptop only last year. My first laptop, EVER.

This is my setup:

I refuse to use the laptops screen, keyboard or trackpad because ALL of them are inferior to a full keyboard, a 24" Dell U2410 IPS screen and a Logitech Mx518 1600dpi multi-button mouse with programmed buttons for various applications.

I won't ever use a trackpad so as long as I'm doing real work in Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign, Lightroom, and web development in Coda/Espresso.

What a joke to try and force people, especially professionals such as myself to use a trackpad. The only time I use it is when I'm in bed with the laptop.

 

[Paradoxally]

For over 10 years I was a desktop user, had a PowerMac and Mac Pro for 9 years and switched to a laptop only last year. My first laptop, EVER.

(...)

What a joke to try and force people, especially professionals such as myself to use a trackpad. The only time I use it is when I'm in bed with the laptop.

That's a nice setup. I'm more than happy with my MB Pro 13's screen, it's actually pretty darn amazing (yes, the real estate could be better, but it's good quality). I understand that for professional workflow the best thing would be a secondary monitor.

As for the keyboard and mouse, it's unthinkable to force people to use multi-gesture trackpads and all those gimmicks. Those are nice to invite friends over and say 'oh look at my beautiful setup, see I don't need to use a mouse like you normal people'.

Any gamer I know would laugh off a trackpad faster than you can say 'FPS'. And I'm sure any professional editor/developer/programmer would do too. I always take my gaming mouse to college because when I'm coding, the trackpad isn't the best and I generally do everything via keyboard/mouse.

Like you said, the trackpad is very convenient for lying in bed and just browsing the web. Lazy moments where no real work gets done. But when I need to get serious work done, it's hard surface + keyboard + mouse. Stable and efficient.

 

[Jagardn]

The issues have been clearly listed throughout this thread and many more threads like it. I suggest you start by looking over the first page of the thread.

I am on this forum enough to know the "issues" with MC and the people who are obsessed with complaining about them. I was saying he(KnightWRX) doesn't see the same issues as you do, nor do I.