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MP 7,1 MKBHD switching to Mac Studio from Mac Pro, but why…
- Thread starter rondocap
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This is crazy, since these reviews originally came out I've seen many eBay listings from worried people terminating their 7,1. Its hard to explain to the general public that you shouldn't trust Youtubers when it comes to profesional hardware advise, they buy sh*t they don't need most of the time. Personally Im really glad I moved from my 5,1 almost three years ago, The 7,1 felt rather expensive back in the day but it has worked flawlessly since day one and all of these upgrade possibilities like a 28 core and dual 6900xt on a "blessed" Apple computer is just priceless for me.
You'd think with Apple's return policy, people would at least be waiting for the Studios to arrive so they can compare them directly (in their particular workflow) before moving on from the big Xeon box. ?♂️
Also this is a big reason as to why apple eventually dropped the touchbar and all the other disasterous decisions on the 2016-2019 MBPs. those transgressions were even worse imo - but look at the outcome of people who voiced issues: the 14 and 16" MBPs are both pretty great now although it did take a while.
w regards to MKBHD; im inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt; to us it seems like blowing ~35k because he wanted to switch to the mac studio is a pretty awful decision. i will say however that I personally don't think the mac pro was really made or designed for "tech" youtubers. to me it seems like a whole waste. i wouldn't be surprised if he ditches the mac studio for the apple silicon mac pro which would probably just show that he wants the latest machines. again, there is nothing wrong with that, but the typical mac pro user keeps it for several years (at least I will keep mine for ~10 years maybe longer). forget about mac pro; typical desktop user usually keeps these for a while. my roommate in undergrad built a pretty medium range desktop back in 2013 for school work (mechanical engineering) and gaming and he still uses it even now because hes been able to upgrade the ram/storage/gpu. Ah the beauty of desktop computers.
35k is nothing for him. If it makes him enjoy his work a bit more, do it a bit faster, etc - why not? People spend way more for way less "needed" things.
He is highly successful, earns a lot of money, his time and energy is better spent elsewhere then getting the best value for his money out of his tools.
Of course he will. Because he wants the latest machines. Why wouldn't he?
People here are incredibly salty.
And yet - this entire thread.
True. And that's the point, the most successful tech YouTuber is not a typical Mac Pro user. A typical user keeps any Mac for 5-10 years. It's all fine.
And the lack of beauty. Depends on what you need. I have a really good desktop computer from work that is loud, takes too much space. I prefer working on my MacBook Pro. It really comes down to what you need and want.
Basically: most people complaining here are looking for value options, best performance for the money at the cost of some other things, best longevity, upgradeability - basically, squeeze the most computer for your money. Nothing wrong with that. But there are people with completely different priorities, like - money's no object, I want a thing that I enjoy so that it makes my job a bit easier, I want a tool very specific for my needs that I plan to upgrade in a year or two, I want it to look good because that makes me happy and I can afford it, etc.
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Why is this bothering you? Some people are on shorter upgrade cycles and it's quite possible they don't need upgrade possibilities or the dual GPUs. Maybe they are like - hey, for what I need, this Mac Studio is actually faster (and it is faster for quite a few things, slower for others) and it's quieter, smaller, etc. Why wouldn't they buy it?
It's great that you have a computer that meets your needs. It will serve you for a long time. But people upgrading after a few years doesn't mean they are trusting YouTubers - it is quite possible that Mac Studio is better for their needs and they can afford it. I doubt people buying Mac Pro and Mac Studio computers for professional work are "general public". General public is buying MacBook Airs and iMac 24s and maybe MacBook Pros.
Enjoy your Mac, it's great, and don't assume why other people are doing what they are doing.
People are acting like he blew up the Mac Pro and then dumped it in the ocean for YouTube views.
No, he sold it back to Apple for money, a perfectly legitimate practice that businesses do all the time when they no longer need it.
No, he sold it back to Apple for money, a perfectly legitimate practice that businesses do all the time when they no longer need it.
If you watched the waveform podcast from yesterday… MKBHD explains the way and also says he’ll definitely be getting the M2 Pro.
I was looking at this.
I don't know about 90%, but certainly the values are not great on eBay. IIRC, they aren't retaining the values that the trash can did after this length of time. When I checked a couple of weeks ago, the only sale in North America with the same or similar spec'd Mac Pro was for under $20000, way back in January with not a single sale since. There were many units listed for over $20000, but none were selling. All other sold units were somewhat lower spec'd units that went for less than $15000.
So perhaps sale prices have tanked with higher end complete units having lost 60-65% of their value (or 70-75% for a quick sale?), but not 90%.
Others have been saying that if you parted it out it may be worth significantly more, but that is a fair bit of effort that many would not want to do.
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you're spending a lot of time asking everyone why it bothers them, but why does the fact that it bothers everyone bothering you? we're on a mac pro forum.
35k is nothing to HIM but in terms of how much compute you can get with 35k its a lot, in an absolute sense. also if we agree the mac pro isnt targeted to people like him, why did he (someone who is ostensibly supposed to disseminate knowledge) get it in the first place? he should have just reviewed it and then got something that suits his needs.
either 1) he doesnt know better in which case hardcore enthusiasts would just call him a casual or 2) he does know better and just wants it because he can get it which makes him look like a phoney. whether or not either of these things are true, idk and idc.
in fact the past several years while the mac was languishing there were arguments that apple was catering to just these types of people...those want flashy hardware but wont use it to its potential. theres no reason the trashcan mac pro design should have existed after the failure of the G4 cube. in their apology tour they even mention they overlooked the fact that dual GPU usage did not take off as they had hoped? really??? i suspect most developers can tell you that it is quite difficult to write programs that fully take advantage of 2 GPUs and they will never be equivalent to 1 faster GPU. if i had to be sinister for a moment, i bet apple had ppl who i just described in mind while designing it, then realized that people who need a desktop (those who wouldn't toss it in 3 years lmao) were scratching their heads at their decision. i think that situation rubs most mac pro users (and really desktop users id say) the wrong way.
It's not even close to $35000. Realistically, for his convenience it's more like $10000 or so that he's giving up on the quick sale used market if that matters, unless you start parting it out as other have suggested.
Anyhow, it does sound like the Intel Mac Pro did suit his needs... at the time... and then Apple released Apple Silicon. Remember this is a guy who ran a group that would edit on the Mac Pro at their home base, but he would actually travel with an iMac Pro in a giant foam box because all the other more portable machines were not fast enough for his usage.
That all changed once Apple Silicon was released. He now edits on the road on an M1 Max MacBook Pro, and the M1 Ultra Mac Studio gives him even faster results... for now... but then he'll be buying the Apple Silicon Mac Pro for his group once it comes out.
BTW, I sometimes find it frustrating when reviewers use a Mac for a week or so for their reviews, and then never use it again. They run a bunch of benchmarks and run a couple of projects through it, and that's it. In contrast, he's been using his Intel Mac Pro for over two years now.
Like I said before, to an outside observer, it really does sound like some people here are unhappy that Mac Pros are losing their value so quickly, even if they won't admit it to themselves.
I think this part illustrates what other people are talking about. It's a completely off topic rant.
I really don't see the connection between the direction Apple used to take with Macs, the "trashcan" Mac Pro and the fact that MKBHD changed their Mac Pro for Mac Studio. What does the fact that a lot of developers that use GPUs can utilize 2 and might consider the Mac Pro better for them. Seriously, what are you talking about?
Let's look at the events:
- Apple made a good Mac Pro after one that wasn't good for what it was, a lot of users were happy with this new one.
- Then they decided to switch to Apple Silicon and announced they will be transitioning all Macs to this new chip.
- They came up with a brand new Mac - the Mac Studio, somewhere between iMac and Mac Pro. They said it wasn't the replacement for the Mac Pro, which is coming.
- We don't know what the new Mac Pro will be, but we can assume it will be good.
- Some users decided that for their usage, this new Mac Studio is great, and since it has some advantages over the old Mac Pro, they decided to switch to this, rather than wait for the actual new Mac Pro.
- Some users decided that they still need the advantages that the old Mac Pro has. They decided to keep their Mac Pro and either wait for the new one, or stick with this one as it is a capable machine still.
A lot of people need something stronger than Mac Mini, but don't need a Mac Pro. That's the Mac Studio. If anyone should be annoyed it's the iMac 27 owners, who hoped for an iMac 27 upgrade. Mac Pro users will get a new Mac Pro. Those developers that take advantage of 2 GPUs might get something even better (they might not, we still don't know, but we can't judge a product that's not even out).
Some of the Mac Pro users decided they want to switch to a Mac Studio. It is a smaller, quieter computer that runs everyday tasks faster, and also - it is faster for certain workflows. MKHBD thinks this computer is better for his workflow. He can afford to throw away his old Mac Pro, which probably payed for itself 100x over in the time he had it. His Mac Studio will probably pay itself off in a few months. In his review, he told everyone "this is not a Mac Pro". Apple told everyone "this is not a Mac Pro".
What are you actually scratching your head about? That a Mac that is not a Mac Pro is.... not a Mac Pro?
Seriously, I read your paragraph twice, not kidding, and I have no $*%^ idea what you're trying to say. Failure of G4 Cube? Trashcan Mac Pro was bad? What do these things have to do with Mac Studio???? And what do they have to do with MKBHD?? Who is exactly scratching their heads about Mac Studio?? Apple is *not* selling this as a Mac Pro replacement. And yes, some people are even replacing their Mac Pros because the Studio is just as good. Also there are some other benefits to the Mac Studio - like the ability to test iOS/iPadOS apps natively, everyday task speed, power consumption, etc. For some people, it's a good reason to decide that a Mac Studio is enough, just like some people decided to switch from the Traschacn to iMac Pro instead of waiting for the new Mac Pro (which was also announced when iMac Pro came out). This is nothing new.
The fact that a mid-range Mac is outperforming the old generation of the high-end professional Mac is something to be celebrated. We can only imagine what the true Mac Pro will be like.
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Exactly. You nailed it in one line - it's exactly what it is. An off-topic rant.
I agree. The Mac Studio is pretty much a entry Mac Pro. The actual next Mac Pro will likely be a dual or quad Mac Studio.
The 7,1 is a let down. It is sort of upgradeable and repairable, but it is also not. Upgrades are few and support is inconsistent. Parts are proprietary and unavailable.
I still like my 7,1. It's like a V8 pickup, old school, where the Mac Studio is EV pickup, Rivian.
Not sure why no one here is impressed with Studio. Its highest configuration price is same as an entry Mac Pro with 90% of the performance of a high configured Mac Pro. With the maxed out Mac Pro, there is no more upgrades, that is it.
What the heck are you talking about. People have upgraded the hell out of 7,1. I have. Upgraded processors. Insane storage options that can pump 12-24gb/sec. A crazy number of high end non apple video cards. Non apple storage sub systems. All kinds of audio and video cards, also non apple. The above is just fake news.
The 2019 Mac is great. It’s biggest problem is price, and it’s now older tech. But expandability and options is not one of its problems. The above is just fake news.
This thread has just devolved into frisbee apologists and non modular apologists telling others how to think “right”, the same kind that told us the trash can Mac was great with all their apologies, despite realities and even apple admissions. They will always hold their breath, stomp their feet and pout demanding agreement and list all the ways they are superior in thought… and in the end, they can’t stand themselves, because deep down they keep seeing they turn out to be more wrong than a broken clock.
Then again, variety is the spice of life.
That said, I prefer to trust reality, and not others alternative realities. As always, ymmv
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Because its GPU in the M1 Ultra, when doing GPU stuff (ie not media encoding proprietary codecs), is roughly equivalent (according to Tom’s Hardware testing) to an RTX 2070 - a midrange GPU from last generation.
Despite all the “efficiency benefits” of its on-die paradigm, it provides less performance than you can get from an off the shelf card, in a standard slot, for significantly less money.
I think a better question is why anyone is impressed with that.
If I was on short upgrade cycles I would have already traded in my 7,1 for an M1 Ultra Mac Studio - and then possibly upgraded again to the next Mac Pro.
I'm not on shorter upgrade cycles. But the Mac Pro is a 2019 era computer. For someone on a 3-ish year upgrade cycle, moving to a Mac Studio is not a shocking move.
Even if the Apple Silicon transition had never happened - after three years people would be upgrading right now anyway.
It really depends on the software, but that’s not even the point - not everyone needs GPU performance. People are impressed with overall performance, not a specific case where it is equivalent to a midrange GPU. My M1 Pro MacBook Pro is even slower than M1 Ultra, and still it is just more responsive and a pleasure to use compared to the 12-core, GTX 3080 PC. Yes, unless we’re talking about GPU-related tasks (or games).
It‘s really simple. Not everyone bought Mac Pros because of the GPU performance. Now these people are upgrading to the Mac Studio which is probably faster for their workflows. Which is impressive, considering it’s a much cheaper computer and not a direct competitor to the Mac Pro line.
Mac Studio is a very impressive computer, just not that impressive in GPU performance.
In general, it's usually a good idea to understand what a vendor's sweet spot is and then ask yourself if you fit into it. Things go off the rails when you are dependent on things that a vendor considers edge cases. You can be a happy Studio owner or a happy HP Z owner, and if it makes sense for your business, you can even do both. It's perfectly ok to have a PC under the desk, whether for work or games. Whatever we see at WWDC with the new Pro, if you're not going to be happy being out of peak performance in 3 years and won't be in a position to retire it like MKBHD did (although hopefully not at the loss he took, no justification for that), then you should think very carefully on whether you're setting yourself up for disappointment and perhaps really would be much better off with a PC workstation where modularity means you can keep it at peak for a much longer time horizon and you have new GPU options every year.
Hmmm... I don't follow MKBHD enough to know, but a friend of mine says MKBHD initially put his Mac Pro on eBay and got no takers. I don't know if this is true or not, and even if true, I don't know what his list price was. Nonetheless, that wouldn't surprise me since essentially nobody is buying complete Mac Pros for over $15000 on eBay these days.
Yes. But
retty sure the price of a new Mac Pro means diddly to MKB….also, most of his reviews don’t concern Apple hardware.