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JiminNC

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 4, 2022
3
8
I just installed MacOSmonterey 12.3.1. You would think the bugs would be fixed by now but they are not. As I searched for help I found many many posts of other people having similar problems. I gave up trying to fix monterey, the most annoying of which is my ext. monitor not working. I found a work around, but the necessity to reduce the resolution of my monitor and forgo using it as a mirror isn't worth it. I tried to downgrade to Big Sur on my M1 air and apple does not make that easy. After creating a bootable usb drive and downloading Big Sur installer on it, the OS replacement operation has failed twice saying: Big Sur installer is corrupted. How can Apple put out a new OS and still have so many problems 6 months after release? And fail to help you go back to previous OS. I'll never trust them again.
 

rm5

macrumors 68030
Mar 4, 2022
2,949
3,396
United States
Some people are having problems with Monterey (memory leaks, absurd amount of "System Data," etc). Looks like you are having trouble with external monitors.

Personally I seem to be having no issues with Monterey on either my 5,1 Mac Pro (which I don't use very often) and my M1 MBA (main computer).

Which Mac are you using Monterey on? Maybe that's why it's not working very well.
 

Freeangel1

Suspended
Jan 13, 2020
1,191
1,755
did your Mac come with Big Sur from the factory?

Have you tried these steps to restore back to factory default?


 

JiminNC

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 4, 2022
3
8
I have 2020 M1 Mac air.
I did 3 attempts to install Big Sur from a bootable usb drive, downloading the installer new each time, it kept saying the "installer is damaged". So I followed the video above and erased my internal drive. When proceeding to install OS again, the only choice it gives me is Monterey. If I try time machine backup it says it can only be used from Migration assistant.
 
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Freeangel1

Suspended
Jan 13, 2020
1,191
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I wonder if your firmware has a version that won't let you down grade to Big Sur.

Sounds like it was a Monterey machine from the factory.

Have you ever had Big Sur on this machine?

I think you may be locked into Monterey and newer unreleased versions.

The other thing you can try is go out and buy a fast external drive. Thunderbolt 4 SSD and install Big Sur on that and set your Mac to boot to your external drive with Big Sur.

Then hopefully with further updates your Monterey install on the internal SOC will get all the bugs out
 

JiminNC

macrumors newbie
Original poster
May 4, 2022
3
8
No, Macbook came with Big Sur. I only upgraded to Monterey a few days ago.
How would a fast external drive act differently than the USB drive I'm using now with Big Sur installer on it?
 

Freeangel1

Suspended
Jan 13, 2020
1,191
1,755
WOW. any USB drive will be slow.

If you change your boot up drive to an external drive GO SSD or M.2 and external enclosure.

You should have one. to dual boot. or emergency boot drive when your Mac fails.

 

MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
6,975
6,354
there
Try Macworld, they had an article about reverting that seemed easy.
and OSX Daily had one as well.
i just forgot what day and article, they have soooo many!
there solution is to reboot with a USB (c) thumb drive and some disk utility settings.
 
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davidlv

macrumors 68020
Apr 5, 2009
2,291
874
Kyoto, Japan
No, Macbook came with Big Sur. I only upgraded to Monterey a few days ago.
How would a fast external drive act differently than the USB drive I'm using now with Big Sur installer on it?
The Big Sur install you are using may actually be corrupt. You can get Big Sur installers here, direct from Apple.
In the form of InstallAssistant.pkg, which will put the actual installer in your Applications folder when you run it.
The Release Candidate B4 available there is very solid, and as it contains security fixes released with Monterey 12.3.1, I highly recommend using that.
Edit: 12.4 released 5-17-22, even better.
After installing Big Sur, run SilentKnight to make sure you have the latest MRT version, etc.
Available here: https://eclecticlight.co/lockrattler-systhist/
The MacWorld article about reverting:
 
Last edited:

Schismz

macrumors 6502
Sep 4, 2010
343
395
Above post is highly informative/correct. Simple clones have become less simple with Apple's new world order. At the end of the day you may have problems if you installed Monterey and it updated your firmware to some revision which requires Monterey or later, and Big Sur doesn't know what to do with it. Unsure if it's possible to "downgrade" at that point.

Main box is a Mac Pro 2019, still on Big Sur. Will end up pulling the trigger and moving to Monterey roughly when the next OS is ready for release and all the software I'm actually using has been successfully ported to Monterey, which has not yet happened. On the other hand, maybe I'll just sit this one out altogether, download the last installer, and see what the least-worst path forward is at that point, since Big Sur's security updates will stop after 2 years.
 
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mxrider88

macrumors 6502a
Mar 8, 2019
812
1,009
Sydney, AU
It is a disaster, my m1 air sometimes reboots overnight while in sleep mode, if I run out of battery instead of saving everything it just shuts down, iCloud isn't syncing, the amount of documents I have lost because of its instability is ridiculous. I would not relay on this machine in a professional environment.
Plus all the issues with Apple Watch not unlocking, personal hotspot not working etc. It is really the bottom end of apple.

Unfortunately I think until people keep buying their product we won't see any effort to get their software fixed. On top of that YouTubers or tech websites like this one are just kissing apple's feet and can't publish a single article about how disastrous their software is.
We need to make some noise, otherwise there is not gonna be any change.
 

Freeangel1

Suspended
Jan 13, 2020
1,191
1,755
still a good idea to buy a fast external SSD to boot Big Sur on.

On these M1 Machines I am told you need a second working Mac plugged into your dead Mac just to restore it if it goes down and cant boot up. or is that just the new Mac Studio Machines ??

Either case I would not want to get caught with an M1 that cant boot up and no form of instant rescue like an external SSD with a working OS installed to get you out of a real jam.


 

Jeven Stobs

Suspended
Apr 8, 2022
224
226
It is a disaster, my m1 air sometimes reboots overnight while in sleep mode, if I run out of battery instead of saving everything it just shuts down, iCloud isn't syncing, the amount of documents I have lost because of its instability is ridiculous. I would not relay on this machine in a professional environment.
Plus all the issues with Apple Watch not unlocking, personal hotspot not working etc. It is really the bottom end of apple.

Unfortunately I think until people keep buying their product we won't see any effort to get their software fixed. On top of that YouTubers or tech websites like this one are just kissing apple's feet and can't publish a single article about how disastrous their software is.
We need to make some noise, otherwise there is not gonna be any change.
I agree. Monterey is an underperforming bug infested UI nightmare that we shouldn’t tolerate.
If we won’t see a considerable macOS improvement coming WWDC, like a Snow Leopard release, I might downgrade my Mac to Catalina, Sierra or High Sierra. I for my part won’t deal with this nonsense much longer.
 

Freeangel1

Suspended
Jan 13, 2020
1,191
1,755
I agree. Monterey is an underperforming bug infested UI nightmare that we shouldn’t tolerate.
If we won’t see a considerable macOS improvement coming WWDC, like a Snow Leopard release, I might downgrade my Mac to Catalina, Sierra or High Sierra. I for my part won’t deal with this nonsense much longer.
I did it. running Catalina on multiple Intel Macs and Loving it! especially on older Mac mini's but also my i9 27" iMac

I do keep external SSD drives around with Monterey so I can run the latest versions of Final Cut Pro and Logic that require Monterey.
 
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MajorFubar

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2021
2,168
3,793
Lancashire UK
There's days where I fight so much getting things to work with M1/Monterey (dunno who to blame) that I get tempted to box away my new Studio until everything's settled down and stabilised (let's be optimistic and say 'some time in 2023') and unbox my 2011 iMac running High Sierra, with which I was totally 100% happy for over a decade until the Studio arrived in April.
 

Schismz

macrumors 6502
Sep 4, 2010
343
395
it's the lesser of 2 evils. Bloated and buggy Monterey and Big Sur. especially on older Macs that cant handle 12.5GB of bloat.

Mojave was the best macOS so far but some software needs at least Catalina.
FWIW 2019 Mac Pro shipped with Catalina with no possibility to downgrade to Mojave since it did not contain the needed drivers for hardware. Catalina was a dumpster fire of an OS, with roughly half the updates introducing really annoying problems, and the other half, kinda, sorta, mostly okay.

Big Sur has given me no real issues, but running with 28 cores & 384GB RAM so it can waste resources in peace and I don't really notice.

Apple's OS quality has walked off a cliff, but, on the flipside, nobody has stopped buying it, they just had their best Q in history despite supply-chain problems and WW III starting, and their stock has done nothing but print money for me. Apple's stock used in lieu of a bank still results in $1 of purchasing power, being worth roughly $1 a year later, and then some, vs. the fiat currency of $USD which is worth less and less every month, so... Apple actually has very little reason to fix problems or pay attention to their software quality, because people just keep buying the hardware anyway.

As a user of their products: not thrilled, its become something I just tolerate. The hardware keeps improving at a very rapid pace... their software keeps getting more and more unstable, while adding little of value other than endless dumb features, while the core OS falls apart/doesn't ever get fixed, and the complexity just keeps growing. Remaining on a legacy install is only viable for 2 years, before security patches stop coming, at which point it's probably a very poor idea to expose your computer to anything except your own network.

As a shareholder: very happy with the company.

Therefore: nothing is likely to change, because people keep buying it.
 

mxrider88

macrumors 6502a
Mar 8, 2019
812
1,009
Sydney, AU
it's the lesser of 2 evils. Bloated and buggy Monterey and Big Sur. especially on older Macs that cant handle 12.5GB of bloat.

Mojave was the best macOS so far but some software needs at least Catalina.

I wouldn’t rate mojave good either to be honest. Probably the last half decent major release was Mavericks. After that every single function they implemented was half baked and never got developed properly because they were too busy adding new half baked gimmicks or emojis.
It’s a sad developing story unfortunately and I really hate that because I used to love macOS. Now if you find me a laptop with the same look and feel and built quality of a MacBook Air with M1, I’d be ready to switch back to windows after being a macOS user for the last 18 years.
 

mxrider88

macrumors 6502a
Mar 8, 2019
812
1,009
Sydney, AU
FWIW 2019 Mac Pro shipped with Catalina with no possibility to downgrade to Mojave since it did not contain the needed drivers for hardware. Catalina was a dumpster fire of an OS, with roughly half the updates introducing really annoying problems, and the other half, kinda, sorta, mostly okay.

Big Sur has given me no real issues, but running with 28 cores & 384GB RAM so it can waste resources in peace and I don't really notice.

Apple's OS quality has walked off a cliff, but, on the flipside, nobody has stopped buying it, they just had their best Q in history despite supply-chain problems and WW III starting, and their stock has done nothing but print money for me. Apple's stock used in lieu of a bank still results in $1 of purchasing power, being worth roughly $1 a year later, and then some, vs. the fiat currency of $USD which is worth less and less every month, so... Apple actually has very little reason to fix problems or pay attention to their software quality, because people just keep buying the hardware anyway.

As a user of their products: not thrilled, its become something I just tolerate. The hardware keeps improving at a very rapid pace... their software keeps getting more and more unstable, while adding little of value other than endless dumb features, while the core OS falls apart/doesn't ever get fixed, and the complexity just keeps growing. Remaining on a legacy install is only viable for 2 years, before security patches stop coming, at which point it's probably a very poor idea to expose your computer to anything except your own network.

As a shareholder: very happy with the company.

Therefore: nothing is likely to change, because people keep buying it.
You basically took the time to write word by word my thoughts.
Thanks for that!

In particular when you talk about stock, hardware getting better and software becoming trash
 
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bluecoast

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2017
2,256
2,673
Fingers crossed that this year is a consolidation year and that they've let the engineers spend a lot of time on fixing the 'invisible' stuff that makes it 'just work'.
 

MajorFubar

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2021
2,168
3,793
Lancashire UK
We can hope, but I doubt it. Going from previous years, there will likely be more crap half-baked features we didn't ask for and don't need while the underlying OS remains its buggy self. I can't see why this year should be different. Unless they look at it from the perspective that ok now we have quality home-brewed hardware in place almost fully across the piste, so let's concentrate on making OS as good as the hardware.
 

w5jck

Suspended
Nov 9, 2013
1,516
1,934
I just installed MacOSmonterey 12.3.1. You would think the bugs would be fixed by now but they are not. As I searched for help I found many many posts of other people having similar problems. I gave up trying to fix monterey, the most annoying of which is my ext. monitor not working. I found a work around, but the necessity to reduce the resolution of my monitor and forgo using it as a mirror isn't worth it. I tried to downgrade to Big Sur on my M1 air and apple does not make that easy. After creating a bootable usb drive and downloading Big Sur installer on it, the OS replacement operation has failed twice saying: Big Sur installer is corrupted. How can Apple put out a new OS and still have so many problems 6 months after release? And fail to help you go back to previous OS. I'll never trust them again.
Most of the current versions of Apple OSes blow chunks. Buggy crap. Some of it might be because of the pandemic and working from home (if you can even call it working) what with the interruptions from SO, kids, pets, neighbors, and all the other distractions. Some of it is certainly the lack of good management and the lack of coordination between the various teams. Whatever the reasons, Apple needs to clean up their OSes. I wish they would just cease this insane BS of releasing a new set of OSes every damn year, and work on getting the bugs squashed. iPadOS 15 and Monterey are really buggy, despite the fan club members' denials. There is always some bug popping up and throwing off my workflow. Mostly small irritating bugs, and a lot of them, no show stoppers, but it doesn't take much of an issue to bring the workflow to a complete stop for a few minutes. In a nutshell, I think it is just sloppy coding that isn't getting caught, and management that is driven to turn out volumes of work even if it is of poor quality.

We are nearly to the 2022 WWDC, and the current OSes look like they are still in first beta release. I shudder to think what the new round of OSes will look like as far as bugs and stupid features we didn't ask for.
 
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