More evidence Apple is abandoning the pro market?

[throAU]

Seldom used by you perhaps. Apparently no pros use RAID. New fact.

"using" RAID and configuring RAID on a regular basis are two entirely different things. And yes, I do use RAID, thank you very much. I just don't whine about the difficulty of configuring it constantly, because its something you do once and forget about.

Spending 5 minutes to configure RAID via the command line because the GUI is work in progress at the moment, once when you set the machine up is not a make or break "pro feature".

If 5 minutes of work per machine purchase is a make or break feature for you... good luck with that.

Go read up on some of the API level stuff they're doing which will enable developers to do really cool and amazing things with their pro applications. Windows still doesn't have anything like grand central available.

Or just bitch about spending 5 minutes to configure RAID.


Seriously.

How many times have you had to reconfigure your RAID setup on your Mac. What is the total time you have spent doing that in the past 5 years? And even if that took ten times as long, what percentage of your time would that equate to?

Yes it sucks the disk utility GUI doesn't do it. But to claim that it is an abandonment of the pro market?

Please...

The argument that Microsoft are "Abandoning the pro market" could be made because none of their server admin tools, or Office for that matter are available as with the full feature set in the new Universal App environment. Or that you can't turn Windows updates off, even if you know better than to install their stuff on release day.

THAT sort of thing is more plausible indication of abandonment of the pro market. And that's a crappy argument...

 

[MacVidCards]

Pcie SSD Are identified as an SATA device for driver compatibility, but not actually an SATA peripheral, neither on the same physical bus.

The difference on the PCIE SSD and the SATA SSD is on the link speed.

PCIE ssd is linked to two PCIE 2 lines at 5GT each for a total 8 Gbps output ( GT/s not the same as Gbps), while the SATA ssd is linked to an SATA bus at SATA III speed or 6Gbps as you can read on your photos.

The info tool also is very explicit on the physical Interconnect apart, clear stand PCIE for Apple SSD and SATA FOR YOUR Intel Sata SSD

Do an speed test on your pcie ssd and on your SATA ssd, you'll see a notorious difference of about 2Gbps.

I'm sorry, did you originally say "Apple still ships machines with more than one internal drive but they connect at different speeds" or did you say "losing RAID support doesn't matter because Apple no longer ships anything with more than one internal drive."

Nice try but you have back pedaled so far from your initial statement it is rather humorous. I suggest that if you are going to state strongly worded defenses of Apple that they be at least partially correct. Your record is rather poor in the "accuracy" column.

 

[Mago]

I'm sorry, did you originally say "Apple still ships machines with more than one internal drive but they connect at different speeds" or did you say "losing RAID support doesn't matter because Apple no longer ships anything with more than one internal drive."

Nice try but you have back pedaled so far from your initial statement it is rather humorous. I strongly suggest that if you are going to state strongly worded defenses of Apple that they be at least partially correct. Your record is rather poor in the "accuracy" column.

If you consider 8gbps (10gbps w/o protocol overhead) the same speed as 6gbps (minus protocol overhead), then you got it, good luck with your unbalanced raid...

 

[MacVidCards]

Spending 5 minutes to configure RAID via the command line because the GUI is work in progress at the moment

Oh man, for a minute I thought you were serious til I hit that "work in progress at the moment" bit.

This is where the "apologist" accusation comes from.

They added EMOJI support in disk utility but the GUI for raid is..., sorry, fell out of my chair.

How many MONTHS ago did El Cap ship?

How is this NOT a sign of neglect for the "get serious work done" crowd?

You guys should REALLY read the stuff you type before hitting "post reply".

If you have a point that you are making and it requires something like that "work in progress" gem, maybe you don't really have a point, huh?
[doublepost=1454350822][/doublepost]

If you consider 8gbps (10gbps w/o protocol overhead) the same speed as 6gbps (minus protocol overhead), then you got it, good luck with your unbalanced raid...

You have 100% changed your tune and flushed your credibility. Don't quit your day job.

This is called "moving the goalposts", which is what poor debaters do when they see their position getting weak. A person of integrity just says "whoops, I was wrong".

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

"using" RAID and configuring RAID on a regular basis are two entirely different things. And yes, I do use RAID, thank you very much. I just don't whine about the difficulty of configuring it constantly, because its something you do once and forget about.

Spending 5 minutes to configure RAID via the command line because the GUI is work in progress at the moment, once when you set the machine up is not a make or break "pro feature".

If 5 minutes of work per machine purchase is a make or break feature for you... good luck with that.

Go read up on some of the API level stuff they're doing which will enable developers to do really cool and amazing things with their pro applications. Windows still doesn't have anything like grand central available.

Or just bitch about spending 5 minutes to configure RAID.


Seriously.

How many times have you had to reconfigure your RAID setup on your Mac. What is the total time you have spent doing that in the past 5 years? And even if that took ten times as long, what percentage of your time would that equate to?

Yes it sucks the disk utility GUI doesn't do it. But to claim that it is an abandonment of the pro market?

Please...

The argument that Microsoft are "Abandoning the pro market" could be made because none of their server admin tools, or Office for that matter are available as with the full feature set in the new Universal App environment. Or that you can't turn Windows updates off, even if you know better than to install their stuff on release day.

THAT sort of thing is more plausible indication of abandonment of the pro market. And that's a crappy argument...

Bla bla bla all appologies...

Let's remove display arrangment and GUI file copy because you know... can be done via command line and plist editing....

 

[throAU]

If you have a point that you are making and it requires something like that "work in progress" gem, maybe you don't really have a point, huh?

Whether it is a work in progress or not is irrelevant. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I stuck that in there because it does look unfinished. but at the end of the day...

It is what it is. Configuring RAID on an aftermarket RAID setup is 5-10 minutes work if you replace your disks.

GET OVER IT

The RAID configuration utility is by no means relevant to OS X's fitness for purpose. For all we know they're going to stick something similar to ZFS into the OS in 10.12 which will make the whole idea of traditional RAID irrelevant, and thus have not bothered to add it to the GUI. Who knows.

But again. It's not relevant. Few people (as a percentage of the OS X user base) run RAID. Fewer build their own. Most who do run it already have it configured. It shipped that way from Apple. Of those who did build their own... even fewer REGULARLY reconfigure it. Given the level of usage (of the configuration tool) vs. programmer time, i'd much rather they fix bugs.


If you want to whine about Pro features going missing, or fitness for purpose there are plenty of bugs in El Cap - they're far more relevant.
[doublepost=1454414513][/doublepost]

Bla bla bla all appologies...

Let's remove display arrangment and GUI file copy because you know... can be done via command line and plist editing....

Again, you copy files in finder a LOT more often than you reconfigure your RAID.

Apple can see that. I can see that. Evidently, you can not. I'm glad you're not leading software development priorities.


edit:
and one of the bugs in el cap is copying files form external NTFS disk to the desktop via the finder. It breaks (yes, it works via command line). THAT is inexcusable. It needs to be fixed. But i don't see you whining about that. You've got your pet hate/bandwagon and beat on it you will.... despite its irrelevance.

And as to EMOJI support - they made the utility unicode compliant. Emoji are part of unicode and were a side effect. You know WHY they gave it (along with basically everything in the OS) UNICODE support? For foreign language characters. Apple is pushing hard into China, and China needs UNICODE.

But hey, harp on about how you think they spent hours to enable you to call your drive the poo symbol or whatever. That wasn't the reasoning. As a developer you should know better. But you have an axe to grind, as demonstrated by basically everything I see you post on this forum lately (@MacVidCards).

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Again, you copy files in finder a LOT more often than you reconfigure your RAID.

(@MacVidCards).

Doesnt answer the arrangement example, but more importantly, those are your same tired apologies. Not mine.

 

[OS6-OSX]

Configuring RAID on an aftermarket RAID setup is 5-10 minutes work if you replace your disks.

And this configuring probably will not be done on an Apple RAID card. Not being able to compete with ATTO and Areca? The things Apple do they do well. They are of course in in for the $! The big $! Anything "Pro" where there is a product "better" than the Apple product, Apple vacates. Does Apple still make displays? I don't think they were on the Eizo "Pro" level either.

 

[JoSch]

And this configuring probably will not be done on an Apple RAID card. Not being able to compete with ATTO and Areca? The things Apple do they do well. They are of course in in for the $! The big $! Anything "Pro" where there is a product "better" than the Apple product, Apple vacates. Does Apple still make displays? I don't think they were on the Eizo "Pro" level either.

Why should Apple provide everything? When Microsoft tried that, we called them evil.
[doublepost=1454490488][/doublepost]

Doesnt answer the arrangement example, but more importantly, those are your same tired apologies. Not mine.

These are no apologies, it's just weighing arguments by their importance. RAID is not important für 99% of Apple customers.
But it is so much easier for your (plural) narrative to dismiss arguments(!), that some things are not as important as other and so have to be weighted differently, as apologies or as logical fallacies. But you (pl.) are not above resorting to them like using "copying in Finder" as a straw man.
So much for arguing and considering evidence.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

These are no apologies, it's just weighing arguments by their importance. RAID is not important für 99% of Apple customers.
But it is so much easier for your (plural) narrative to dismiss arguments(!), that some things are not as important as other and so have to be weighted differently, as apologies or as logical fallacies. But you (pl.) are not above resorting to them like using "copying in Finder" as a straw man.
So much for arguing and considering evidence.

Right, neither is screen placement for 4k screens because apple doesnt even make a stand alone 4k screen....

 

[throAU]

And this configuring probably will not be done on an Apple RAID card. Not being able to compete with ATTO and Areca? The things Apple do they do well. They are of course in in for the $! The big $! Anything "Pro" where there is a product "better" than the Apple product, Apple vacates. Does Apple still make displays? I don't think they were on the Eizo "Pro" level either.

Hardware RAID controllers (in desktop computers) are not long for this world anyway. Newer filesystems like BTRFS and ZFS integrate the filesystem with the volume manager and a hardware RAID controller just gets in the way. The filesystem needs to know what the actual physical disks are doing for BTRFS and ZFS to work properly. The days of needing a dedicated controller to be fast enough to do RAID parity calculation, etc. are long gone.

Like many things in computing, eventually software catches up to hardware and software is far more flexible.

Proper enterprise storage arrays? Sure, maybe some vendors will maintain their own controller hardware. But even in that space, plenty of vendors are going software, including Nutanix, VMware and others.


[doublepost=1454736821][/doublepost]

Right, neither is screen placement for 4k screens because apple doesnt even make a stand alone 4k screen....

If you want a 4k screen, buy one.

Any modern mac is compatible with Displayport, and there are plenty of third party 4k displays on the market.

 

[OS6-OSX]

So if Apple is "not" abandoning the "pro" market, what "pro" market items are left by Apple? Not to be confused with "supporting" "pro" software and hardware by other vendors. Keep in mind this is the same company that has an iPad Pro! I have been using Apple since System 6, hence the name OS6-OSX. Not an Apple hater, I just don't drink the Kool Aid.

 

[Tech198]

so by Apple limiting to certain fields or aspects of the "pro" market would that have a negative effect ? Pro's want to do a particular thing, but its not available in in Final Cut Pro ?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

If you want a 4k screen, buy one.

Any modern mac is compatible with Displayport, and there are plenty of third party 4k displays on the market.

Watch the plane go over your head....

 

[wyz]

According to this poll, it seems that the creative market is still pretty much mac os based, it would be pretty dumb of Apple to neglect their core users/supporters.

http://motionographer.com/2016/01/25/2015-hardware-survey-results/

 

[throAU]

Watch the plane go over your head....

I'm a pragmatist mate. Solutions to your problem(s) exist, you can either utilise them or cry about it on the internet.

One of those options will solve your problem.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I'm a pragmatist mate. Solutions to your problem(s) exist, you can either utilise them or cry about it on the internet.

One of those options will solve your problem.

I am too, that's why I'm telling you to enjoy those planes flying over your head.