I think unit sales volume, revenue, and profit margin on Mac vs iPad may factor into this equation
Does Apple make more off the iPad? I can't remember.
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iPad Mouse Support - The Missing Elephant
- Thread starter neteng101
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Does Apple make more off the iPad? I can't remember.
Well, in the end, whether or not Apple eventually offers mouse support on the iPad, I can say after using my Citrix mouse that it is certainly a great tool to use in combination with the iPad. Personally, I think it will eventually happen. I also believe that there are more than just a few that would use a mouse if offered, especially when the iPad is docked in the Smart Keyboard.
I just hope that Apple doesn't do something stupid like slamming the door shut on the Citrix mouse.
I just hope that Apple doesn't do something stupid like slamming the door shut on the Citrix mouse.
No, it's not even a "very limited trackpad", but you are free to believe that it is. In the context of the discussion, such claims cause confusion for those who aren't aware of what is possible on an iPad.
I don't believe Apple breaks down margins by product line (regardless they're focused heavily on services where they #win big time)
Honestly, I'm not even sure if you are just trolling or truly believe what I have said is confusing (I don't think it is, at least not to most who frequent these forums).
Besides, the reason why I brought up the "trackpad" was just to explain that Apple could do a proper software trackpad.
If the terminology I used bothers you that much, feel free to come up with a better term to describe the "track pad". But I personally find this "argument" pointless.
Yeah I agree! I think iPad sell between 12-15 million a year and Macs are like 5. I think iPads will continue to decrease year over year as they get more and more expensive and more and more powerful. Users don't have to upgrade each year like they did in the past. It will be more like a Mac. I had my first Mac for over 8 years and just upgraded it last year for the touchbar Pro. I see myself using my new 10.5 iPad for the next several years. If this continues to be the trend, I think Apple might start to think about iPads as more of a real laptop replacement, and had some more support for it.
I remote into my work PC's all the time via Teamviewer using my iPad Pro, and I have not yet felt the need to have a mouse. I do a lot of work on my Pro and again, have not yet felt the need for a mouse. But that's me. For those that would like to use a mouse, the option should be available. But instead, we have apple telling us how we should use the device.
Yeah, that's true. Wasn't really my intention saying it couldn't be done, just that it'd be so easy for Apple to implent. More of a frustration thing on my end.
The interface is built wit
Very much against mouse support. The interface is built for touch based interaction, asking developers to code for the less than 1% ( mouse users ) will create a poor interface for all.
We do not even use mice on laptops, touch pads are more common.
Read the whole thread - Wouldn't be needed at all - iOS simulator (devs) use the mouse for testing right now - works fine - no additional coding required, just enabling it on the device.
For basic stuff, yes, you can wire up a mouse pointer as a "finger" and use it to perform tap and pan gestures. You can even emulate a second finger. As a developer, one of the biggest reasons I use hardware for testing in addition to the simulator is because of input. It's utter garbage for working with multi-finger gestures and deciding if a gesture feels natural or not. A good example is that multi-selection drag and drop simply cannot be done in the simulator with a mouse currently. If you can, it's not a well advertised feature, even to devs.
The main hurdles I really see to having better mouse support on iOS is really this area of replicating multi-finger gestures properly. You really have two approaches:
1) Encourage devs to support one-finger versions of things you can do with multiple fingers in the HIG, so that mouse users don't get a sub-par experience.
2) Add APIs for mouse input to UIKit so you can expose some of this stuff through secondary clicks like you would do on the desktop.
While you can deal with some jank in the simulator as a dev because it's a bit faster than pivoting to your device to test it while actively making changes, it's a bit different expecting users that get a mouse to deal with that jank.
If we are going to get mouse support in iOS, I'd rather that Apple did something better than just make it act like the simulator. And that will require changes from apps to fully support.
I am a dev ( over 5 years for iOS, 30+ for other systems ) and have never used a mouse for testing for iOS.
Others do - You don't - Your point?
It would be possible to enable and no additional specific coding would be required.
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Oh I agree. A solution that is more well thought out for iOS would be ideal, but again, there's nothing technically standing in the way of enabling accessibility support to a have a Mouse enabled as a pointer right now.
That is literally the only point being made here.
Folks arguing against this and claiming it's a huge hurdle apparently haven't tried BTC Mouse (Jailbreak tweak) that did exactly this and worked wonderfully...
It was hugely useful, right out of the box, with no tweaking (obviously since it's a JB app) by App devs, etc.
OP's desire for mouse support is part of a small minority. By "others", I believe they are also in the minority. I say this by observing many coders over the years and currently. None of my current code club members use a mouse. None of any of the software development groups I belong to use mice.
Enabling a bluetooth mouse would be fairly simple for Apple, and they may do it in the future. There would be additional coding required for developers.
In my mind there is no need for mouse support on a mobile device. Keep the UI simple and efficient. I can guess the OPs desire for a mouse; they are using a poorly designed UI in which case a mouse would be better. Best would be a properly designed UI / UX for touch based devices. A mouse would just become an inefficient add on.
I recommend best practices.
I don't actually think "technically possible" is really the reason why Apple (or even Microsoft) will or won't do a thing. Priorities, goals, and engineering ethos all play a part. You say it's technically possible, but I would say it doesn't fit Apple's priorities, goals and/or ethos to do it the way you ask for it to be done. There are many things that are technically possible, but that we don't do for various reasons. Even if the mouse pointer wasn't there in iOS' Window Server, it would be technically possible to do what you are asking.
To use a similar example, I really dislike how Windows exposes touch to developers. The whole thing is built up with the goal in mind of making a mouse-centric UI touch-accessible. So you have built-in, fixed behavior gestures that are there to mimic mouse input. Right clicks and things like that. This tends to force a more specific touch interaction, and makes it harder to support the sort of gestures that are pretty standard on Android and iOS. Think "picking up" and moving an item using a long press in a list of items or collection. There's nothing technically stopping Microsoft from making better touch APIs available. But it isn't in their priorities to do so. Their priority is again, to make a mouse-centric UI touch-accessible. And as long as that remains their priority, the results will reflect that. And that priority is set by the ethos of not breaking legacy apps.
I would actually agree with folks saying it is a hurdle. There's a difference between hacking to get something working, and engineering things for 5+ year horizons, especially when it comes to something developers at least wind up needing to be aware of. The JB tweak is a hack to get something working, but mouse support at the OS level must be designed at the 5+ year horizon, because apps will start depending on the behavior, and developers hate you if you keep pulling the rug out from under them as you try to get it right. Saying it is technically possible means about as much as a fart in the wind when it comes to building features that affect user interactions across the OS or APIs. Honestly, I'm a bit annoyed at Apple at redoing the Document Provider APIs and deprecating the old ones already (to support the fuller featured Files app), and those were introduced back in iOS 8. But their work around autolayout betrays the reality that they've been building towards features like split view and alternative screen sizes like the 12.9" Pro for years by building the foundation that was needed to make the switch easy.
And for the reasons I dislike Windows' touch input APIs, I would equally dislike Apple's mouse support if all they did was bolt the mouse onto the touch input stack like the JB tweak enables.
I'm not sure, but it seems to me you would have to really change the UI. From what I can tell, mouse is not a swipe device, more like a clicker.
You could drag stuff as a swipe, but that's a bit odd.
The whole thing is made for fat sausages, not tiny floating arrows (or whatever). The pencil works as it's just a thin finger, but even then it's awkward.
Not sure about this though, just rumornating.
You could drag stuff as a swipe, but that's a bit odd.
The whole thing is made for fat sausages, not tiny floating arrows (or whatever). The pencil works as it's just a thin finger, but even then it's awkward.
Not sure about this though, just rumornating.
For writing novels or other long documents where a lot of of cut-and-paste work involving multiple paragraphs or even multiple pages at a time is required, a mouse would be an absolute godsend. Right now I'm having to carry both an iPad and a laptop due to this lack and this lack alone, and it drives me batty every time I pack my day-bag that Apple won't see the light and fix it. I just don't at all get why a mouse wasn't supported from Day One. It completely baffles me. Those who don't require a mouse can simply not use one. What's so hard about this?
A word processor app like Pages is another perfect candidate for a mouse. Again, when the iPad is in the Smart Keyboard, reaching up to touch the screen doesn't feel right at all.
I still don't understand the objection. Even if the mouse wouldn't work with the main interface, at least allow it to work with apps.
I would counter argue that Apple created a bad user experience by allowing the iPad to be used with a Smart Keyboard and then still requiring touching the screen. Should have just left it handheld then.
I still don't understand the objection. Even if the mouse wouldn't work with the main interface, at least allow it to work with apps.
I would counter argue that Apple created a bad user experience by allowing the iPad to be used with a Smart Keyboard and then still requiring touching the screen. Should have just left it handheld then.
Sounds like you want a screwdriver to be a hammer, so to speak.
sounds to me like he would like option to use a mouse , just like some have the option to use the pencil
Well,Apple made a keyboard for it so if a keyboard is needed why not a mouse.
I don't need a pencil, don't want a pencil, didn't buy a pencil. I would find a mouse more useful than a pencil for my usage.
Eye-tracking my sons, that will be the solution.
http://iphone.appleinsider.com/arti...ye-tracking-gaze-controls-for-ios-mac-devices
http://iphone.appleinsider.com/arti...ye-tracking-gaze-controls-for-ios-mac-devices