Sure does! It's literally the same as using a mouse on a regular computer.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iPad Mouse Support - The Missing Elephant
- Thread starter neteng101
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Sure does! It's literally the same as using a mouse on a regular computer.
But let's take the pen as example. It can be used to move in the interface, but frankly, it's awkward! Should apps be updated to be better controlled via pencil? No! Because primary input in iOS are finger. Pencil can be used but it's main use is another one (drawing). The same can be said for a mouse/trackpad. Should apps be updated? No, touch is the main input, but in some context a mouse is just better (again: text selection, excel etc).
Heck, iOS is not even well optimized for external keyboards, you cannot even move or select things in springboard!
Also, have you ever tried iOS simulator on the Mac? It's a tool provided by apple to test apps. You use it with the mouse/trackpad. If you never did, I guess you should, then you could see that apps work pretty well already.
But let's take the pen as example. It can be used to move in the interface, but frankly, it's awkward! Should apps be updated to be better controlled via pencil? No! Because primary input in iOS are finger. Pencil can be used but it's main use is another one (drawing). The same can be said for a mouse/trackpad. Should apps be updated? No, touch is the main input, but in some context a mouse is just better (again: text selection, excel etc).
Heck, iOS is not even well optimized for external keyboards, you cannot even move or select things in springboard!
Also, have you ever tried iOS simulator on the Mac? It's a tool provided by apple to test apps. You use it with the mouse/trackpad. If you never did, I guess you should, then you could see that apps work pretty well already.
How is using the pencil awkward to navigate with? It seems simple enough to me. It is used like a finger. Again I said while the mouse can be useful in some classes, the screen size can be very limiting on apps like excel. A mouse does nothing to help that.
Here's my other issue (and a large part of why I think Apple does not offer mouse support), when would the mouse be used? Just in certain apps? The whole iOS system? If you think it should be used natively for everything. How should a mouse work on the home screens? When you right click what should happen? When you use the scroll wheel what should happen? Now think about what an average user would think it should do. Apple has always been about product doing an action the way people think it should. It should preform the same way it does on a Mac. That simply can not happen in iOS 100% of the time. If I use the scroll wheel on the home screen, the best I could hope for would be going from one home screen to the next. Then I hop into safari and it scrolls up and down. That is not uniform at all. What about right clicking? Users expect that it brings up things like copy and paste. What would it do on an app on the home screen? Again it would not be uniform across the UI. So then it would just be certain apps that it works for? That makes for a terrible experience. I hop out of one app and want to go to the next, but the mouse does not work in the home screen. That makes for a very confusing interface. Like I said, iOS is not built for mouse support. Apple would have to rethink the way iOS works for something only a small amount of their user base is asking for. With the pencil, nothing changed. It works like you think your finger would work. A mouse in the current form of iOS could not work the way it would on a Mac or PC. That does not sound very Apple to me.
my opinion is that using a mouse would be more ergonomic while sitting up straight in a chair with the iPad on a desk rather than leaning forward every time to touch the screen to select text, scroll, etc.
1) Abut the pencil. the whole concept of multitouch is broken, by design! Drag and drop cannot be great at all, because there are cases where you also need hands, and the smooth surface of the glass makes it hard to coordinare a mixed interaction fingers/pens, as their friction is different. These are interactions that just don't work. And it's ok. Pencil is there to draw and, as a bonus, you can control SOME of the UI, and in SOME cases it can be good or even better than by using fingers! Isn't it great?
Oh, you can not access some actions at all with the Pencil, like swipes from top or bottom. This means you cannot access control and notification center. And that's ok, because it 's a SUPPORT for the primary interaction, which is and always will be mediated by fingers.
2) About screen sizes: I'm on a Pro 12.9 and did word/excel work more easily on a netbook. It's my personal opinion, but it seems there are many people who share this pain with me.
Apple on-screen keyboard with trackpad is a great idea (very badly implemented, as it is now it can be used occasionally and it's good for very cool demos at wwdc keynotes) but everything falls apart when you put the table vertical and switch to the smart keyboard.
3) About implementation details: I have my own ideas, but I feel this is not really the place to discuss them, nor I think it's up to me, after all we pay apple to deal with implementation. Also: using iOS simulator would answer some of your questions.
4) Furthermore, I think hardware keyboard implementation is an incoherent ugly mess on iOS. I mean, it's really bad and used to be worse in iOS9, and buggy. Still they shipped it and people seem to like it, and being more productive. So will happen with the trackpad.
The trackpad smart keyboard just was not ready at this time. Wait and see is all I can say
Last edited:
I am not going to argue with you on what the pencil can can't do, or if the pencil does or doesn't work like a finger. Nor will I argue with you on how a mouse would be implemented on an iPad. I simply told you that Apple has held the idea that a product should perform the way customer expect it to preform on their products. The way iOS is made does not support that type of mouse, and would require changes. I will say this for at least the 10th time. Apple is not know for changing an OS to support something that a minority of their users are asking for. You are very much in that minority, and I would suggest not holding your breath for mouse support. I will say this too. The demand for a stylus/design tool was much higher then the demand for a mouse has been. More and more people are finding ways to make their workflow work with the current state of the iPad, and less and less sitting complaining and waiting on mouse support.
It seems like you're creating arguments against it and then not listening when people take the time to respond.
In terms of implementation I personally think you allow it across iOS like pencil, but it is mainly for app interactions so it doesn't work everywhere in the OS - like pencil. What does the scroll wheel do on the windows desktop? Nothing. It's completely fine for the scroll wheel and right click to do nothing on the home screens. And for apps to decide whether they do anything.
The suggestion of trying the iOS emulator is a good one. You can literally do anything a finger can by using a mouse. Therefore I think it proves that a mouse option would be both easy to implement and wouldn't be a negative option
If need be, I'd expect Apple to find a solution to integrate a touchpad without increasing the keyboard size, such as: Make the keyboard touch-based, simulate the key click via (perhaps multiple) Taptic engine(s) and offer a button to switch between key mode and trackpad mode. Would also immediately solve the problem of localized keyboards. I think what's preventing Apple from having this introduced already is:
- Cost
- Weight
- Technical problems of integrating taptic engine on bigger devices (hence its absence in the new iPads)
You know how the virtual keyboard on the iPad allows it to act as a trackpad?
And I personally feel that raising your arm to touch the screen is only tiring above a certain height. The lower half of the screen is generally easy to touch without tiring the arm.
So maybe Apple could create a small software trackpad situated on the bottom left or right corner of the screen. The trackpad should also be able to be switched on or off by pressing a key on the smart keyboard.
That way, you will still have a touch only interface but can still accurately navigate the screen for accurate selection if needed.
And I personally feel that raising your arm to touch the screen is only tiring above a certain height. The lower half of the screen is generally easy to touch without tiring the arm.
So maybe Apple could create a small software trackpad situated on the bottom left or right corner of the screen. The trackpad should also be able to be switched on or off by pressing a key on the smart keyboard.
That way, you will still have a touch only interface but can still accurately navigate the screen for accurate selection if needed.
I really like the new iPad Pros, and have buyed an 10,5, but if Apple wants that we work in a desktop table with the iPads i think Mouse support it´s an important thing.
We usually hear from Apple that they don´t believe in touchscreen for macs, because it´s uncomfortable, then Why in the hell they want for us to work with our powerfull iPad Pro´s with an uncomfortable touchscreen?? In mobility the touch screen works fine, but in a desktop i want Mouse support if Apple want their iPads to be really Pro´s.
We usually hear from Apple that they don´t believe in touchscreen for macs, because it´s uncomfortable, then Why in the hell they want for us to work with our powerfull iPad Pro´s with an uncomfortable touchscreen?? In mobility the touch screen works fine, but in a desktop i want Mouse support if Apple want their iPads to be really Pro´s.
I think Apple will eventually support mice after another year or two of anti-mousers throwing the lack of support in our faces as justification for why it's a terrible idea. This has happened too many other times for me to believe this will play out any differently.
Thanks! While I am unsure about VMs (you mean I can use the iPad on headless computers too?), I do quite a bit of remote computing via Teamviewer so this looks pretty handy
Just that Singapore does not have a Citrix store per se but at least I can order it on the online store
Now I am a little sad; kinda wish all these technologies would be available to me while I was still in college a few years ago, would have made a difference for sure! Some of you younger 'uns are sure lucky in today's world! (somewhat)
My understanding was that the OP was talking about external ("Smart") keyboards, not the virtual ones.
How am I not listening to others? I have said repeatedly in this thread that I think mouse support could be useful for some users. I also said I don't think the user base that is requesting mouse support is large enough for Apple to have a reason to work on this.
I said in my last post that I did not want to argue whether the pencil is useful or not because that comes down to personal preference. The pencil works on every screen in iOS. It may not do everything your finger can do with multitouch, but it does move around the screen. With that being said, I think a mouse it much different then the pencil. We can argue how it would work, but again it's not worth it to me. I understand what you are saying with the scroll wheel or right click, but at it's core I don't believe the iPad was made to be used with a mouse. I also understand what you are saying about the emulator, but I don't think that necessary means it would work the same way iOS. Obviously there is no other option but a mouse input on a Mac emulator. Again I do think it can be done, but I don't think this was Apple's or Job's vision when they made the iPad. I would encourage posters in this thread to go back and watch the Walt Mossberg interview with Job's back in 2010 not too long after the iPad was released. I went back and watched in yesterday, and it's really interesting seeing how the iPad has come along since then. It's also interesting how Job's vision for the iPad is still in place, and what he was saying was his vision for the iPad in the future has happened. I think his famous quote was "if you need a stylus, you have already failed". I don't think that applies necessarily to the pencil because I think this is a design tool more then a navigation tool. It's in no way required to make the pro functional. A mouse on the other hand completely changes how we use the iPad. It removes much of the touch input of the iPad. I think this goes against Apple's vision for the iPad, which Job's laid out back in 2010. This is my main reason for saying mouse support is not happening. Let it be clear though since it seems I don't want to hear other peoples views on this. I do see the use for mouse support, and yes I think Apple could make it happen with no issues. I just do not believe the demand is high enough, and I don't believe it's how Apple sees the iPad being used.
Yeah I know, but with all the debate regarding whether a mouse would make an iPad less "touch-centric", I figured it would be awesome if we could have a small virtual trackpad at the bottom corner of the ipad screen, which can be triggered by pressing a button on the Smart Keyboard.
This would allow the iPad to remain purely touch-centric, can be implemented across all iPads without any new hardware, and would be ergonomic since the bottom of the iPad's screen can be reached with your fingers without lifting your arm.
That kind of thinking is opposite what Steve Jobs had for putting music in the iPhone. Sales are going to be cannibalized on the Mac, might as well that Apple is the one that's cannibalizing.
But this is assuming that a pointing device (because I'm not convinced it WOULD be 'mouse' support as such, more likely to be a trackpad) would be implemented to work exactly as it does on the mac/pc. As you say, Apple have put too much time and money into refining their touch interface to undermine it by making any pointing device a core part of system interaction; more likely they will allow it only in apps that currently support the two finger trackpad gesture when an external keyboard is detected- and ONLY then. I also wonder whether a future iPhone might be configured to work as a Bluetooth trackpad of sorts for those apps- and if they do that this year (I can dream!) it's probably the only thing that would compel me to update from my current excellent 6s.
No it doesn't. It only allows you to move the text cursor around a text entry field.
Think in terms of a trackpad. It would work the same way as touching the screen (e.g., long press, pinch). Mouse? Think Magic Mouse with no right-click -- click-and-hold, etc. At least that's how I envision it.
I'm not looking for a whole ton of added functionality, I'm looking for more granular control and skipping the whole shoulder workout thing .
I don't disagree with this at all. I think I said this several pages ago, but I was listening to a podcast from Apple Insider and they were saying that if Apple did ever add any kind of input other then touch it would be something like what we see on the Apple TV remote. They were thinking it would be something outside what we think of as a traditional mouse or maybe even a trackpad we see on a Mac. I don't disagree with that. That sounds like Apple, but a tradition mouse does not at all. I think the pencil is much more then just a stylus, and for the most part it's much better then anything we have seen on other devices. I think if we see any new input device, it's not a mouse. It's Apple magic lol. Really though, I think it will be something much different then what we know now.
Yeah I agree with this. I don't think it will be a mouse. I don't like we will have this little arrow flying around the screen. I believe the interface will be much closer to what we see on the Apple TV. My argument in this thread has been about a tradition mouse. I don't think that will ever be supported, but something more like a trackpad is way more possible. I don't know how close Apple is to adding it, but I think as we get closer to iPad being a main device, the closer a new input device becomes possible.
.I think unit sales volume, revenue, and profit margin on Mac vs iPad may factor into this equation